There’s a new man in my life, and his name is Clem

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I’ve had my 2019 blue Clem L for a few weeks now, but it’s taken me awhile to get it set up for me. It’s still very much a work in progress, but it’s really turning out to be a spectacular bicycle. As I discussed in a previous post A Tale of Two Clems, this new Clem is quite different than my 2015 Clementine. The Clementine fit me like a glove with zero need for adjustments. The new Clem is much longer, which changed a lot for me. I needed a shorter stem (went from a 12 to a 9...or something), and even so, I’m probably going to scoot my Brooks a bit forward because I *still* want the grips closer to me. I’m 5’6” with an 83 cm PBH, but I wonder if the 45 would have fit me like my old Clementine does. 

The Clem also boasts the fancy seat lug I adore, cream fills in the lugwork, slimmer, lithe-looking tubes and a gorgeous metallic blue paint that no camera can capture. The bike just begs for blue and more blue, and I’ve answered it. I’ve come to think of it as the 50 Shades of Blue Bike. 

I got it back from the shop yesterday. It has the new stem, a Nitto Basket Rack, the Big Bens stolen from the Clementine, and was supposed to have the Clementine’s fenders. The mechanic got the message mixed up and didn’t install them, so the Clem is fenderless for now. The same day my Randi Jo bag arrived, so I added that (the patch was a gift from our Roberta and a perfect accessory to the bag) and put all my Sackville on the Clem. This bike is now FORMIDABLE. What can it not do for me now?

I took it out for an hour last night and laughed in the dark for most of the ride. It is so much FUN. The Clem glides along, confident and strong. It feels masculine, like its whisking me away somewhere, and I feel like I’m in good hands. This is huge for me. I do a lot of hand-wringing when I get a new bike, or even a new bike PART (I cried when I wore out my first set of tires on the Betty and had to get new ones). I wonder if I’ve made a mistake. I have visions of the bike falling apart underneath me as I ride down the mountain on our school route. I rode the Betty exclusively for nearly 7 years and it never let me down, so the Clem has a lot of live up to. So far, so good.

I took it to the boys’ school today loaded with: 2 U-locks, a lunchbox, a laptop, a violin, a clarinet and my small personal effects. No sweat! The bike shifts effortlessly, climbs just great and doesn’t complain about the weight it carries. 

I’m still figuring out what grips I want (these black Ergon grips are nice, but I need brown) and what fenders to get. The SKS on the Clementine are fat and floppy looking, and the mechanic says the measurements are nearly the same for the new bike. Meaning, the fenders are going to look just as sloppy on the Clem, so he didn’t install them. I’ve got the Big Ben tires; does anyone have a suggestion for good fenders (not metal) that will be a nicer fit? I love how well the SKS fit and look on my Betty. 

Below are photos from yesterday. You can see the new bike along with the other 2 I currently have. I’m really more of a 2 bike person, so I’ll likely be selling the Clementine soon. I also made a fun 1 minute video of my “shakedown ride” last night but I’m not sure you can view it on this platform. Knowing that it’s goofy and not at all academic, PM me if you want to view it anyway and I’ll send it to you. Or, find me on Instagram. It’s a regular party over there!

Leah

[Mark Roland]

Awesome.

[Joe Bernard]

50 Shades of Blue Bike 🤣

[Leah Peterson]

Yeah, except classy and not that trashy other 50 Shades! We will have no part of *that*.

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> On Nov 19, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 50 Shades of Blue Bike 🤣
>
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[Ian A]

When you find the sweet spot for fit, all concerns over frame size will evaporate. Just some small tweaks can make a big difference in feel, so it's worth persevering. Reed Kennedy on the 650b list made a method for perfectly replicating fit from one bike to another, if you wanted to perfectly mimic the Clementine fit.

I tried to link it, but it only linked to my groups homepage. For those more familiar with the google groups interface search "How To: Measure Bike Fit Exactly" (OP Reed Kennedy) on the 650b and possibly iBOB too. Really helpful and well written guide. If anyone could post the correct link, that would be great.

Am I the only one wondering why the Clementine doesn't just stay with you? Why the new Clem to replace a perfect one? No justification needed, of course. And the new Clem is clearly superb.

IanA

[Leah Peterson]

Ian has asked a very fair question, and I’m happy to answer - I am an open book, ask away!

Why does Leah have a perfectly fitted Clementine but plans to sell it in favor of a less well-fitted Clem L?

Because:
1. Leah is not immune to beautiful details.
2. Leah is a minimalist.

The Clementine fell into my lap after my mother in law moved to a nursing home. The bike had sat unridden in her garage for over a year. I bought my Betty Foy at the end of its production, not knowing a new longer-wheelbase generation of Rivs was in the works. I missed the Cheviot by a couple of months. While I adore the color scheme of the Betty, I’ve always wanted room for fatter tires and to know what all the fuss was about long chainstays. These were things the Clementine had, and I was really fortunate to get to bring that bike home. Turns out, Rivs new philosophies live up to the hype. That Clementine was instantly more comfortable than my Betty, though admittedly, heavier.

But, the Clementine had no cream accents, was a rather loud aqua color, and had an ugly seat lug (I’m sorry, but that’s what I think). I had some frustrating recurring shifting issues with the bike, and I think that has something to do with space between the frame and derailleur (someone here speaks this language) that the newer Clems have fixed.

The new Clem L fell into my lap because Roberta, a kind and thoughtful soul, was looking for a Clem L for my sister, and she stumbled upon this insanely good deal out of New York. For the price, it was just dumb not to buy it. I couldn’t believe anyone would sell this bike after 2 weeks of owning it, and at such a great price. I planned to either give it to one of my two sons when he gets big enough, or to sell it later. But when it arrived, it was just so beautiful. Cream accents! I’ve never had them! That metallic blue will make you swoon, though you need to see it with your own eyes to believe it. I described it as a blue-green shot through with glimmer, like sunlight in seawater, and I stand by that. Forget about the photos you’ve seen online, they’re trash. This bike is a much lovelier and upgraded Clementine. It’s really hard to say no to the beauty that the Clem L brings. I can live with making some adjustments to fit because I think my body will get used to the bike and eventually prefer it. So, I’m keeping it.

I am going to sell the Clementine because I don’t need two of the same bike. We move fairly frequently and I like to travel through life light. I dislike clutter and I am wary of just ‘having things’ - I need to use them or they gotta go. I only want two bikes, a step through and a mixte - the two best bikes Rivendell makes. It’s bad enough that the old Clem H is sitting, waiting for a Peterson boy to grow tall enough to ride it, but I’m not having TWO bikes sitting in exile. So, the Clementine will brighten someone else’s life soon, and she’s a joy-bringer for certain.

Thanks for the help on fit - I’ll be anxious to read it if we can track it down.
Best,
Leah








Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 19, 2019, at 12:49 PM, Ian A <atte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When you find the sweet spot for fit, all concerns over frame size will evaporate. Just some small tweaks can make a big difference in feel, so it's worth persevering. Reed Kennedy on the 650b list made a method for perfectly replicating fit from one bike to another, if you wanted to perfectly mimic the Clementine fit.

>
> I tried to link it, but it only linked to my groups homepage. For those more familiar with the google groups interface search "How To: Measure Bike Fit Exactly" (OP Reed Kennedy) on the 650b and possibly iBOB too. Really helpful and well written guide. If anyone could post the correct link, that would be great.
>
> Am I the only one wondering why the Clementine doesn't just stay with you? Why the new Clem to replace a perfect one? No justification needed, of course. And the new Clem is clearly superb.
>
> IanA
>
>
>
>

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

PS I forgot to say my sister didn’t buy this Clem because her husband got her one for their anniversary. A 2019 bronzey green one. Maybe it was also a gift to himself, because she had completely stolen his 59 grilver Clem L. That’s love, folks. ❤️

[REC (Roberta)]

I LOVE your new blue Clem, even if the name isn't as good as Clementine! (Let that be our biggest issue of the day! )  You were wise to not let me pick it up in NY and ship it to you, because it might not have made it out of PA.  :)  Blue is my favorite color and I couldn't believe how beautiful "Rivendell blue" is.   I got to see it in person at the Phila Bike Expo.    Everyone should take note, since so many of Riv's bikes are "Rivendell blue."  And all those other shades of rich blue in the panniers and other bags, and your shirts make it even better. 

As you know, I'm so glad it's making you so happy.  Especially nice when that was so unexpected. 

Roberta

[tc]

Hey Leah, awesome build you have going!  If you don't already have one of the Riv Clem posters, you need to get one.  You are one with Clem if anyone ever was.

As for your reach to the bars, I would humbly suggest NOT adjusting your fore-aft position saddle position just yet.  Doing so may not be the right thing for your knees.  The optimal and most comfortable butt-to-crank/pedal horizontal dimension should not be compromised to fix a handlebar reach issue if you can help it.  Rather, get a shorter stem if you can and try that first.  You can actually get a really short reach Nitto Technomic Deluxe long quill stem from Ben's Cycle, all the way down to a 50mm reach for $66:  https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-ntc-dx-technomic-deluxe-long-quill-stem/stem_nitto_ntc-dxlong_870/product

As I write this, they have 2 in stock.

Tom

[Leah Peterson]

Roberta made me so excited when she went to the Expo - for many reasons, actually: she sent me photos, texts, updates, and SHE ALSO told me about this fabulous blue. My bike was being shipped so it was very exciting to get to see the paint through Roberta’s eyes. And yes, Roberta, I do think you would have loved this bike and I do feel I’ve gotten away with something since I ended up with it. 

Riv friends are fantastic friends.

Leah

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On Nov 19, 2019, at 3:49 PM, REC (Roberta) <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Leah Peterson]

Tom, the Clems. I’ve got it bad. We have enough in my family and extended family that I think our family crest should be the Clem headbadge. Forget that sewer guy.

I’m agonizing over the stem. I just purchased the 90 and paid to have it installed. I wish the bars came just a smidge closer to me, but I don’t think I want to pay for all these things all over again. I compromised and moved my saddle just a tiny bit, and I still think my butt is behind the pedals, so hopefully I’m not screwing up my knees too badly.

But, if I *were* to spurge again and get a new stem, how would I know what size to try next? Should I go for an 80 or down to a 70? These are the things that make me so sad I don’t live by anyone I know from this List. Curses!

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On Nov 19, 2019, at 4:11 PM, tc <tdc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Hetchins52]

Ian, is it this 650b thread with entry by Reed Idlewild on Aug 27, 2018? 

A system of measurements made using a laser level.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?nomobile=true#!searchin/650b/reed$20kennedy/650b/92pKlfCr8ro/oYP8XLWuAgAJ

David Lipsky

[tc]

Leah, you asked, "But, if I *were* to spurge again and get a new stem, how would I know what size to try next?"

Here's one way:  

1. Position your saddle to where it feels most comfortable/efficient/powerful when pedaling, regardless of your reach to the handlebar.  
2. Attach a small piece of masking tape on your handlebar such that you can easily remove it.
3. While pedaling on a level, safe path or road -- or while seated on your bike but leaning up against a garage wall using your shoulder for balance -- slide one hand backward on the grip until you hit the position that feels right.
4. Then with the other hand, remove the tape and mark the location of the front of the hand you've slid backward.
5. Measure the distance (in cm) between the front of the grip and the back edge of the masking tape, and subtract that distance from 9 (assuming you currently have a stem with a 9cm reach) to determine the length of the stem you need.  Obviously given stem sizes you'll need to round to the nearest cm.

If the distance measured in step 5 is 4cm or less, (IOW, you need a 50mm - 80mm stem), you can get one from Ben's Cycle (Nitto NTC-DX Technomic Deluxe) or elsewhere if you can find it.  If it's more than 4cm, then you'll likely need to look into something like an after-market Analog wRight stem with basically a 0mm reach.  Either would make a great Christmas stocking stuffer :)

When stem buying, pay attention to the stem clamp diameter.  Boscos have a 25.4mm diameter where the stem clamps on, and therefore need a stem with a 25.4mm clamp diameter.  If the stem you want only comes with a 26mm clamp diameter, you can get shims to make up the difference.  Riv sells'em here: https://www.rivbike.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-stainless-handlebar-shim-25-4-to-26-0-16095

Tom

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[Garth]

    Leah, on your Betty, the one that fits you best, measure the distance with a tape measure(metric preferred but regular will do) in between the saddle tip and either side of the bars right next to where the stem is. I really mean "in between" , as in place the tape measure's body right up against the saddle tip and extend it to the inside of the bars next to the stem. This gives you a firm number, there's no wiggle room for guesses here, no centers to guesstimate .  Now do the same with your new Clem-L.  Compare the distances and post it here.   This will help with a stem adjustment, if necessary. 

The Clems have a 1/2 degree seat tube angle than the Betty, which means the exact same saddle and seatpost mounted exactly the same fore/aft, the Clems will be a little further back. I forget the mathmagics involved offhand, but it will be around 4-5mm give or take guesstimation. 

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 8:48:58 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Ian A]

Thanks David. There is another post by Reed on the iBob which includes photos and is a bit more comprehensive. It's under Reed Kennedy on the iBob. Everytime I try and link I just end up at the groups main page. Could be that I'm on mobile.

IanA

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Leah check out velo orange for fenders...here’s a pic of their 650b wavy fenders on a Clem:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx0LvYFBzKD/?igshid=1jmglpf4h6t48

Also check out ESI grips, they’re my fav, come in a TON of colors, musa and they feel “warmer” in colder weather.

A stem swap is fairly easy and you’re totally capable! Slide off your grip/shifters on one side, remove bar, swap stem and reverse install. Set aside 30-60 mins.

You got this!

[masmojo]

Yes Velo-Orange for fenders or Sim Works, but again I think you said no metal?

I was wondering why you'd dump the Clementine for the Clem L, but I think you kind of answered that. Personally, the long wheelbase of the Clementine is the main thing I don't love about it; happy that everyone else loves it though. I bought the Clementine to be my "old man" bike and seeing as I am not quite there yet I think I'll hang on to it, the only reason I'd trad'er in would be for a shorter chainstay version, but the current state of things makes that seem unlikely. The blue is pretty, but because I naturally gravitate towards that end of the color spectrum, I tend to consciously go for something else.
I am sure your local bike shop does a great job, but as a person whose been wrenching his own for approx. 50 years I just sort of cringe a little bit. Should be a River out there who could assist you? I'd help, but I think you live far from me.
I'd fix it for a sixer of Shiner Bock or a half gallon of Bule Bell Homemade Vanilla. 🤣

[Leah Peterson]

Alex, lovely! Are they metal, though? I don’t want the noise metal fenders make. I’ll check out the ESI grips!

Stem swap. Alright. I’m going to attempt this today. I will be a nervous wreck the whole time, but I suppose if I really mess something up I can go back to REI and do the walk of shame and maybe the mechanics will think it’s funny instead of pathetic. I *might* got this! 😂

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 20, 2019, at 6:58 AM, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles <482...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Leah check out velo orange for fenders...here’s a pic of their 650b wavy fenders on a Clem:

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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Noise!?  In theory, if the fenders are properly installed and there's sufficient clearance between the fender and tire they should be near silent.  Once in a while a stone might run up through there but I'd say for that minor/seldom heard quirk the advantages of metal are worth it (Stiffer, better looking, longer lasting, plastic is an environmental nightmare 😊)

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 11:37:16 AM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Alex, lovely! Are they metal, though? I don’t want the noise metal fenders make. I’ll check out the ESI grips!

Stem swap. Alright. I’m going to attempt this today. I will be a nervous wreck the whole time, but I suppose if I really mess something up I can go back to REI and do the walk of shame and maybe the mechanics will think it’s funny instead of pathetic. I *might* got this! 😂

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 20, 2019, at 6:58 AM, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles <482...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Leah check out velo orange for fenders...here’s a pic of their 650b wavy fenders on a Clem:
>
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx0LvYFBzKD/?igshid=1jmglpf4h6t48
>
> Also check out ESI grips, they’re my fav, come in a TON of colors, musa and they feel “warmer” in colder weather.
>
> A stem swap is fairly easy and you’re totally capable!  Slide off your grip/shifters on one side, remove bar, swap stem and reverse install.  Set aside 30-60 mins.
>
> You got this!
>
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[Leah Peterson]

Alex - don’t the metal fenders rattle going over bumps? We use a path so every 12 inches we hit seams in the concrete. I’ll reconsider if they really are quiet.

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On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles <482...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

The old clunky metal fenders in days of yore did.  The fenders from velo orange are silent and come with leather washers to make sure there are no rattles etc.

Fender install can be an art!  So make sure you tell your REI people you want artisanal-level install work and to follow the Velo Orange instructions ☺😀

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[Deacon Patrick]

Leah,

If I was to go with fenders on a bike again (including riding my rough stuff), I would go metal. Plastic fender's only two advantages are 1. cheaper; 2. easier to install. Metal fenders are (reported by folks here and elsewhere that I well trust) 1. heartier; 2. quieter, when properly installed, with leather washers et al; 3. lighter. The real trick seems to be finding someone who will fuss with them to install them properly.

With abandon,

Patrick 

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[masmojo]

Plastic fenders are great until they break or you lose one of the little bits that goes with them. Plus plastic fender make the whole bike look like crap (in my opinion)

Regarding stem length and fit; here's an old rule of thumb I've used for 30 plus years:
When on the bike with the seat height property adjusted. Put your hands on the grips. Then look down at the front axle. Ideally, in my experience, your hands & possibly the handlebar itself should be directly in-line. In other words with a line extending from your eyes to the axle, the hands should be in that same plane. If the axle is in front of your hands? then a longer stem, behind? shorter.
On a drop bar typically the bar itself should obscure your view of the axle.
Now I should qualify this; this isn't an official fit rule; It's my own. I've just noticed over time & many, many bikes that it tends to be true.

[Leah Peterson]

Ok, you guys (Mas, Alex, DP) have convinced me I need the metal fenders. I’m looking at VO and now should I choose the black or the silver??? I would have never considered black but this Clem seems to beg for it. Which means I need to get a black saddle, ugh.

Look again:

[Steve Palincsar]

Ditto for Honjos.  Properly installed metal fenders don't rattle.

Installing metal fenders takes time and patience.  It absolutely cannot be hurried.   Read the instructions several times.  Visualize.  Understand that you cannot and absolutely must not try to pull metal fenders into shape with the stays; instead you've got to massage the fender to alter the curve.  Pushing the edges out to widen the opening tightens the arc of the fender, and squeezing the edges together expands the arc.  You do this little by little over the arc of the fender. 

Also, if your fenders aren't pre-drilled, you absolutely can't tape the fender up once, mark all the holes remove and drill.  Do that, and only the first hole will end up in the correct place; everything else will be off, and you'll have to ovalize the holes.  What you do instead is mock up the installation and mark the first hole.  Remove, drill, install the first hold and mark the next.  Remove, drill, re-install, mark the last hole.  Remove, drill, reinstall.  It's a Zen thing and cannot be rushed.  (Try at your own peril - there are countless ways they'll punish you if you do.)

But you end up with a beautiful and functional setup that protects you from road spray better than plastic fenders, and that lasts for years.  And quiet.

Incidentally, those eyebolt fasteners VO and Honjo use are fiddly and fussy and are just dying to fall apart when you try to install them, so be sure you've got a blanket or something similar beneath where you're working, otherwise one some of the pieces will disappear.

These are perfect.   I didn't install these, Peter Weigle did.  

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-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Steve Palincsar]

Personally, I'm for the silver.   It looks beautiful when new, and even when much older (and more beat up or even oxidized to a matte finish) it still looks good.   Black is just a surface coating, and if the fender gets scratched the black is going to get scratched off and you'll see the underlying silver.   Here https://www.flickr.com/photos/smartpublicspace/32918278447/ is an old bike with fenders that have oxidized to a matte finish.  Even zoomed up to monstro-gigantor size they look great.  And dents wouldn't show!

On 11/20/19 1:07 PM, Leah Peterson wrote:

Ok, you guys (Mas, Alex, DP) have convinced me I need the metal fenders. I’m looking at VO and now should I choose the black or the silver??? I would have never considered black but this Clem seems to beg for it. Which means I need to get a black saddle, ugh. 

Look again:  

Brown grips vs black grips.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 20, 2019, at 10:01 AM, masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Plastic fenders are great until they break or you lose one of the little bits that goes with them. Plus plastic fender make the whole bike look like crap (in my opinion)

Regarding stem length and fit; here's an old rule of thumb I've used for 30 plus years:
When on the bike with the seat height property adjusted. Put your hands on the grips. Then look down at the front axle. Ideally, in my experience, your hands & possibly the handlebar itself should be directly in-line. In other words with a line extending from your eyes to the axle, the hands should be in that same plane. If the axle is in front of your hands? then a longer stem, behind? shorter.
On a drop bar typically the bar itself should obscure your view of the axle.
Now I should qualify this; this isn't an official fit rule; It's my own. I've just noticed over time & many, many bikes that it tends to be true.


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[Patrick Moore]

Not to start a quarrel, but IME, which is considerable,  at least certain "plastic" fenders -- Planet Bike's polycarbonate, or SKS's sandwich "chromoplastic" -- are very durable, perhaps more durable than metal ones -- and I include the Kelpies I recently installed, with both sheet metal and stays double the usual Honjo/Berthoud/VO materials. They don't rattle, either, if properly installed.

I won't assert the same thing about Blumels, Zefals, etc., though these too may be as strong as the PBs and SKSs.

As for ugly, I agree that metal ones can look much better, though I wouldn't say that plastics are necessarily ugly.

I went to Kelpies -- customs -- because no other fender would fit properly on the Matthews's almost 30" X 2.4 wheels; SKSs came close to fitting, but not quite.

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 11:01 AM masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Plastic fenders are great until they break or you lose one of the little bits that goes with them. Plus plastic fender make the whole bike look like crap (in my opinion)

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[masmojo]

I would say silver, because racks and other components are Silver.

Regarding the stem; first glance would indicate maybe a longer stem, but I kind of need to consider the LARGE front center; which may mean no.
In a nut shell if the handlebar feel like a tiller, then move the bars forward (longer stem) if it feels too quick, unstable move it back. It's not just about reach.

[Leah Peterson]

This is all so helpful! I did NOT know the black fenders would chip, so silver it is. I’m not exactly precious about my bikes - these are real bikes that see real use and are not garage queens - so the chipping is inevitable. I’ll go with silver so they age a little better. And I need them to age well because my mechanical inclinations are well-documented here. Those fenders will have to last the life of the bike.

Now back to grips and saddle - do we vote brown or do we vote black?

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 20, 2019, at 10:36 AM, masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I would say silver, because racks and other components are Silver.

>
> Regarding the stem; first glance would indicate maybe a longer stem, but I kind of need to consider the LARGE front center; which may mean no.
> In a nut shell if the handlebar feel like a tiller, then move the bars forward (longer stem) if it feels too quick, unstable move it back. It's not just about reach.
>

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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

I mean, what’s wrong with blue, “limited” or aqua? Grips are usually a place I look for a little pop of color...

https://esigrips.com/mtb-grips/extra-chunky-blue

[Mike Packard]

These are very classy and comfortable: https://velo-orange.com/products/cork-grips

Pro tip: mount backwards so that you have a nice little bump that feels good to grip. I have the black version but you can see the bump.

Mike

Austin

[Roberta]

So many great ideas here!

Mike--These are real cork, like what Riv used to sell?  I have the Miesha's grip on my bike and love the putting the palms of my hands over the bulbus hump in the middle.  Very comfy.    Riv recommended a new shifter for me, but said I'd need to destroy my grips, so I'll just live with the current shifter.   

Steve, Alex, masmojo, Deacon P, Patrick (I hope I didn't leave anyone out)-- Do metal fenders have the quick release (breakaway) tabs that SKS fenders have? 

Leah--  on my She-Devil with 38 cm tires, I have SKS fenders that just fit the tires (I think they are recommended for tires up to 38 cm ), installed by my favorite now-Riv owning mechanic.  They look great and since I'm not a ride-in-the-rain person, they will be fine for me.   The wider fenders looked too floppy, not sleek.  But you know that I don't ride that bike much.

I have SKS fenders on my Joe A, installed by extremely capable James from Analogue cycles.  These fenders are the right size for my wider tires, full coverage and are better if I'd ride in the rain, but don't look nearly as sleek.  I choose SKS because of the price and the break away tabs.  I get real satisfaction when I hear something between my tires and fenders, knowing that otherwise it would be on me!  I'd go with silver.   Your bike will be super-awesome, not just awesome.

Roberta

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/20/19 3:48 PM, Roberta wrote:
>
>
> Steve, Alex, masmojo, Deacon P, Patrick (I hope I didn't leave anyone
> out)-- Do metal fenders have the quick release (breakaway) tabs that
> SKS fenders have?

Mine don't.  Mine have sufficient clearance, and anyway I don't ride
where I could pick up sticks, so I don't think it's an issue for me, not
even on the C&O Canal Towpath.

[Joe Bernard]

I like black fenders (he says just to be contrary).

[Steve Palincsar]

You're not the only one.  Even Rene Herse has added black fenders to their program:  https://janheine.wordpress.com/2019/09/24/rene-herse-fenders-in-black/

and Peter Weigle's current shop bike sports black fenders

  

On 11/20/19 4:15 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

I like black fenders (he says just to be contrary). 

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Mike Packard]

I think the VO cork grips are real cork, but more ground up like particle board vs plywood. I prefer the Riv ones but the these have more shape.

Mike

[masmojo]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cbg2y2apcoD2CVjE9

My Polyvalent has black VO wavy fenders.

[Joe Bernard]

...and green tires and a purple seatpost. That's rad!

[Mark C]

Hi Leah,

This is my first post, but I've been following your Clem adventures and the other Clem talk here. I'm glad you got the fit issue worked out.

I've wanted a Clem for a while now and almost bought the web special 59, but really like this new geometry, so decided to wait (plus wanting something more colorful than the Grilver - pretty as it is). Seeing your bike, I wonder if a 52 in the new geometry might be fine for me with a 30" saddle height (pbh about 88). I was concerned about the amount of stem extension I'd need, but it looks like I'd be fine and also have a more useful loaner size.

I don't think that the seat tube angle changed, so you probably want to make your adjustments with the stem if possible. As you know, changing the saddle will change your position over the pedals, which I suppose could be better, or worse. For my part, I always have a Brooks jammed back as far as it can go, but everybody is different. The Clem might finally give me enough room to scoot back as far as I want.

Keep posting your Clem enthusiasm; it's contagious.

Mark

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Mark! 

I’m so excited for you to get a Clem. Is there a 52 available for you somewhere? Clems really are great bikes; dead useful and so comfortable. And with the cream accents and gorgeous color and fancy seat lug, they’re fancy in their own right. 

I suspect you COULD ride that 52. Joe Bernard might speak to the measurements (because he’s been helping me figure out what the heck is going on via Instagram) for us. This bike is just much larger than the Clementine, which would be just the ticket for you. I probably could have ridden the 45 in the new iteration. The stem was a 12 and now I’ll be installing a 5 or 6. The 9 just wasn’t close enough for my liking. This is good news for you!!! Let’s find you a 52!

PS these bikes are hot stuff, so if you take your chance on a 52 and decide you’d have preferred a 59, you’ll have no trouble selling.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 20, 2019, at 4:24 PM, Mark C <wvfi...@comcast.net> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

Mark, if the effective toptube length looks right to you I say go for it, it's a looooong bike. My PBH is 80-ish and I fit my 52 H (recent model) with the Bosco Bars up as high as they'll go, and sitting upright at the ends (needed for my arthritis).

You'll get more seatpost showing, mine is at 'fistful of post' visible. At the stock bars you should have lots of room to go from bolt upright, to all the way to the flats for getting out of the wind. Or if you need a smidge less reach-back just about any other bar will open the cockpit up. I hope this helps and welcome!

[Leah Peterson]

I’m glad Roberta chimed in about fenders because I’d forgotten about the break always and I’m getting cold feet about the VO fenders with no break away tabs. I really, really fear the going-over-the-bars kind of crashes. I realize this is highly unlikely with the riding I do (commuting on paved paths) but...yikes. This is especially disappointing because I was really liking the looks of those fancy VO metal “wavy” fenders. 

Is there any fix for it? Or am I back to SKS. 

Deacon Patrick - would you still say metal fenders without break aways for the rough riding you do?

Worrying in the desert (haha),

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 20, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Roberta <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/20/19 10:02 PM, Leah Peterson wrote:
> I’m glad Roberta chimed in about fenders because I’d forgotten about
> the break always and I’m getting cold feet about the VO fenders with
> no break away tabs. I really, really fear the going-over-the-bars kind
> of crashes. I realize this is highly unlikely with the riding I do
> (commuting on paved paths) but...yikes.

If you provide sufficient clearance and are on paved paths that aren't
strewn with sticks, then "highly unlikely" is an understatement.  I
recall back a few years ago when this question first came up, Jan
questioned all the old time French randonneurs he was in contact with,
all of whom used metal fenders.  None of them had ever heard of such a
crash.

But if you're really worried about this extremely remote possibility,
I'm pretty sure I recall a discussion somewhere in the past couple of
years about 3rd party breakaway tabs for metal fenders.  I don't have a
reference handy, but perhaps someone on list recalls this.

> This is especially disappointing because I was really liking the looks
> of those fancy VO metal “wavy” fenders.
>
> Is there any fix for it? Or am I back to SKS.
>
> Deacon Patrick - would you still say metal fenders without break aways
> for the rough riding you do?

I'd be more worried about being robbed at gunpoint on an urban paved
path than I would about a crash from a stick.   That actually does
happen around here - rarely, but it does happen.

[Ian A]

Reed Idlewild sent me a link to his description on fit. Many thanks to Reed. Here it is:-

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lBVAx8HXfPswofv9q6NKFCw9pBrjeOmNxfpfSR3ZDVo/edit?usp=sharing

IanA

[jeffrey kane]

I believe Steve is thinking of the Portland Design Works fender safety tabs. 

https://ridepdw.com/collections/custom-fender-fit-collection/products/full-metal-fenders-safety-tabs?variant=24829153601

I've seen them installed on friends bikes but haven't felt the need to use them on mine for my daily combat commute in NYC. I do run V/O  Noir fenders though -- and after three years of urban warfare they are nicked, chipped and slightly dinged here and there but idk -- isn't that what we all refer to around here as beausage?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I’m really glad we’re having this conversation and that so many people have added their perspectives. I have truly enjoyed learning from you and exploring your different ideas and perspectives. I have found this really valuable and also...fun. Maybe there’s someone else out there thinking the same thing.

Because of you all, I’m on the home stretch of getting this Clem set up so that I’m free to love it to death. I feel confident in what you said about fenders being low-risk. I’m online on another forum reading responses to a man who asked my question, and it seems really rare to have a bad crash from a front fender debacle.

1. So, let’s just say I go with the VO wavy silver fenders. Is wavy tacky? I figured it would hide the dents, plus it’s unique.

2. Then, saddles. I’ve always, always been partial to honey-colored saddles, but this Clem seems to beg for black with copper rivets and rails. If you look at the brake bridges and those little parts on the bike, they’re a gunmetal color. Really sharp with the blue Clem paint. Or maybe I should get one of the limited edition Brooks colors. I do like the Ergon grips (they just spoil you for comfort), and I’m thinking I will keep them. I could swap them for brown if we vote I keep my brown Select saddle. Or, I keep the black grips and put a black or limited edition color saddle on the bike. It’s so hard to decide.

An aside about loving things to death. I have 2 pairs of Frye boots I took to the cobbler last week. I have worn them for years, polishing them myself but wearing the heels down to the nails. I procrastinated taking them in for service because I didn’t want to part with them. The cobbler, a fastidious man, looked over the top of his glasses and scolded me in his charming Italian accent, “You’ll have back problems! You wear these this way? And you want me to fix this, I suppose!”

That’s how I want use this bike. I’m going to ride it until it feels like part of me and I never have to think one thing about it. No more, “I wish the bars were closer” or “I don’t trust that it won’t fall apart on me on the downhill”; no more uncertainty about how tight I can make a turn as I wheel it out of a tight space. I want to instinctively know where to grasp the frame when I lift it over the curb on campus, and how brace myself for the distribution of the bike’s weight when I carry it. I want the mechanic to look askance at me and scold me for bringing my Clem in in such a state.

[Patrick Moore]

Here you go: https://ridepdw.com/products/full-metal-fenders-safety-tabs?variant=24829153601#

And this is a photo -- somewhat hard to see them -- installed on their VO-type fender struts. https://ridepdw.com/collections/discount-eligible/products/full-metal-fenders-650-beast-65mm?variant=31282542247993

I thought about getting some of these, but even with rather tight fender clearances on my dirt road bikes, I've not yet -- in some 10 or so years of using fenders on (dry, flattish, but often gravely, with not infrequent sticks) dirt I've had no problem; OTOH, the one time I experienced "stick wheel lockup" -- I was the observer, not the patient -- was when I was following my brother through bosque singletrack, he riding bare-wheeled knobbies. He caught a stick; I, with fenders (and smooth tires) did not.

I'd guess that with no knobs, you'd be fine with metal fenders, especially if you have the standard clearances.

[Patrick Moore]

Peter White has basic but thorough (and classic!) advice for setting up a bike comfortably. I agree with him that you ought to set saddle position first before choosing a stem. Scrolls as needed, and note section on saddle fore-and-aft position.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.php

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 2:56 AM tc <tdc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah, you asked, "But, if I *were* to spurge again and get a new stem, how would I know what size to try next?"

Here's one way:  

1. Position your saddle to where it feels most comfortable/efficient/powerful when pedaling, regardless of your reach to the handlebar.  
2. Attach a small piece of masking tape on your handlebar such that you can easily remove it.
3. While pedaling on a level, safe path or road -- or while seated on your bike but leaning up against a garage wall using your shoulder for balance -- slide one hand backward on the grip until you hit the position that feels right.
4. Then with the other hand, remove the tape and mark the location of the front of the hand you've slid backward.
5. Measure the distance (in cm) between the front of the grip and the back edge of the masking tape, and subtract that distance from 9 (assuming you currently have a stem with a 9cm reach) to determine the length of the stem you need.  Obviously given stem sizes you'll need to round to the nearest cm.

If the distance measured in step 5 is 4cm or less, (IOW, you need a 50mm - 80mm stem), you can get one from Ben's Cycle (Nitto NTC-DX Technomic Deluxe) or elsewhere if you can find it.  If it's more than 4cm, then you'll likely need to look into something like an after-market Analog wRight stem with basically a 0mm reach.  Either would make a great Christmas stocking stuffer :)

When stem buying, pay attention to the stem clamp diameter.  Boscos have a 25.4mm diameter where the stem clamps on, and therefore need a stem with a 25.4mm clamp diameter.  If the stem you want only comes with a 26mm clamp diameter, you can get shims to make up the difference.  Riv sells'em here: https://www.rivbike.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-stainless-handlebar-shim-25-4-to-26-0-16095

Tom

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 8:48:58 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Tom, the Clems. I’ve got it bad. We have enough in my family and extended family that I think our family crest should be the Clem headbadge. Forget that sewer guy.

I’m agonizing over the stem. I just purchased the 90 and paid to have it installed. I wish the bars came just a smidge closer to me, but I don’t think I want to pay for all these things all over again. I compromised and moved my saddle just a tiny bit, and I still think my butt is behind the pedals, so hopefully I’m not screwing up my knees too badly.

But, if I *were* to spurge again and get a new stem, how would I know what size to try next? Should I go for an 80 or down to a 70? These are the things that make me so sad I don’t live by anyone I know from this List. Curses!

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 19, 2019, at 4:11 PM, tc <tdc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hey Leah, awesome build you have going!  If you don't already have one of the Riv Clem posters, you need to get one.  You are one with Clem if anyone ever was.

As for your reach to the bars, I would humbly suggest NOT adjusting your fore-aft position saddle position just yet.  Doing so may not be the right thing for your knees.  The optimal and most comfortable butt-to-crank/pedal horizontal dimension should not be compromised to fix a handlebar reach issue if you can help it.  Rather, get a shorter stem if you can and try that first.  You can actually get a really short reach Nitto Technomic Deluxe long quill stem from Ben's Cycle, all the way down to a 50mm reach for $66:  https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-ntc-dx-technomic-deluxe-long-quill-stem/stem_nitto_ntc-dxlong_870/product

As I write this, they have 2 in stock.

Tom

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[Mark Roland]

Exactly! A little pop of color at the end of the bars is what I was looking for when I got the Rivendell Hunt-Wilde grips for my latest Schwinn Le Tour mixte aka Cheviut wannabe.(I was trying to avoid the two prevailing colorways for orange bikes--Creamsicle and Halloween. I think I succeeded if I do say so...) The H-Bs are not quite as fat and juicy as the grips on my old 5-speed Schwinn Suburban, but very comfy nevertheless. If you can't handle the red, there is black.

Couple more shots:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/KqSiPQjPygLfbpJB9

[Leah Peterson]

I love what you’ve done here! The saddle and fenders! 😍 Does the blue rub off the Brooks? Seems I’ve seen a photo where it did...

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 20, 2019, at 9:46 PM, Mark Roland <absolut...@gmail.com> wrote:



Exactly! A little pop of color at the end of the bars is what I was looking for when I got the Rivendell Hunt-Wilde grips for my latest Schwinn Le Tour mixte aka Cheviut wannabe.(I was trying to avoid the two prevailing colorways for orange bikes--Creamsicle and Halloween. I think I succeeded if I do say so...) The H-Bs are not quite as fat and juicy as the grips on my old 5-speed Schwinn Suburban, but very comfy nevertheless. If you can't handle the red, there is black.

<IMG_20191018_133850795.jpg>

Couple more shots:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/KqSiPQjPygLfbpJB9

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 2:13:00 PM UTC-5, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:

I mean, what’s wrong with blue, “limited” or aqua? Grips are usually a place I look for a little pop of color...

https://esigrips.com/mtb-grips/extra-chunky-blue

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<IMG_20191018_133850795.jpg>

[Joe Bernard]

All the Brooks colors are a dye in the leather and they all eventually darken with use over the years. Even your Select which doesn't have a color has done it, and I think it adds a nice patina..I love to look at Brooks saddles that have a history in them. I can't pick between aqua and black, I think they both would look smashing on your new bike.

Wavy fenders are very classy. I dig em!

[Joe Bernard]

My favorite part of this story is Leah has an Italian cobbler who looks over his glasses and chews her out. I totally "watched" this in my mind as a black-and-white film from the '40s 😁

[Deacon Patrick]

Leah asked "Deacon Patrick - would you still say metal fenders without break aways for the rough riding you do?"

I'd go with the PDW safety tabs others pointed out.

With abandon,

Patrick

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[Roberta]

Mark, I love the happiness of this bike! 

Deacon Patrick,  so nice to see you here again.  Will these tabs work with other fenders besides the PDW ones?  Is it the stays that determine that?

Leah, I think the violet color would look smashing!  It looks burgundy colored and very rich!   It’s a B17 though.   https://www.rivbike.com/collections/saddles-and-seatposts/products/saddle-brooks-limited-edition?variant=30307991814255

[Mark Roland]

As Joe says, all Brooks leather saddles, with the exception of the discontinued Select Organics/Naturals, are dyed, and subject to rubbing off. I believe that is why cycling-specific shorts were customarily black. On my commuter years ago I road in all weather and nicely stained a pair or three of chinos. Enough so that I bought myself an organic Brooks.

I loved the "natural" coloring, but after Proofide and a few hundred miles, that quickly turned to a close approximation of the honey-colored Brooks. Oh well.  Will the turquoise come off on your slacks? Depends on conditions, but certainly possible. Won't really show up on darker colors, but whites and khakis could get stained. Just as much chance of that with the black or honey though.

On Thursday, November 21, 2019 at 12:55:12 AM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I love what you’ve done here! The saddle and fenders! 😍 Does the blue rub off the Brooks? Seems I’ve seen a photo where it did...

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 20, 2019, at 9:46 PM, Mark Roland <absolut...@gmail.com> wrote:



Exactly! A little pop of color at the end of the bars is what I was looking for when I got the Rivendell Hunt-Wilde grips for my latest Schwinn Le Tour mixte aka Cheviut wannabe.(I was trying to avoid the two prevailing colorways for orange bikes--Creamsicle and Halloween. I think I succeeded if I do say so...) The H-Bs are not quite as fat and juicy as the grips on my old 5-speed Schwinn Suburban, but very comfy nevertheless. If you can't handle the red, there is black.

<IMG_20191018_133850795.jpg>

Couple more shots:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/KqSiPQjPygLfbpJB9

On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 2:13:00 PM UTC-5, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:

I mean, what’s wrong with blue, “limited” or aqua? Grips are usually a place I look for a little pop of color...

https://esigrips.com/mtb-grips/extra-chunky-blue

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[Steve Palincsar]

Yes exactly!  Thanks.

[in Dallas nick]

Probably a goofy thought but

if one preferred the name Clementine 

would it fit if a bike decal maker made a same size / color decals of ' entine '

to mount beside the current Clem decals?

Someone may have already thrown that idea out there for consideration.

Paul in Dallas 

[David Bivins]

Hi all,

I would love to try metal fenders again someday. 

My first year of bike commuting in NYC was the first year of CitiBike (NYC bike share). My commute, from Park Slope, Brooklyn to the Garment District in Manhattan, was just over 45 minutes each way. After almost a year, I bought my own bike, a Civia Twin City. I had Bicycle Roots (LBS) fit it with the Velo Orange hammered metal fenders. It was beautiful.

That first winter on that bike was brutal. I had committed to commuting by bike every single day and even canceled my unlimited Metrocard. Those metal fenders got destroyed by pulling in ice, slush, and other junk from the roads and the stays getting bent by other bikes getting locked against them, my panniers pressing on them, etc. It was a constant struggle to realign them and, to boot, I was getting flats several times a week. Finally I changed my tires to Marathons and stopped getting flats. This was my first significant bike experience as an adult, and I learned a ton that first year. I also switched to SKS fenders because the beautiful Velo Orange metal fenders had been re-straightened too many times and couldn't be fixed anymore.

I do wonder if my inexperience in commuting, removing and replacing wheels, and how I set up my panniers and locked my bike set me up for failure with the metal fenders. I have SKSers on my Clem but think metal would be much nicer. And now I work from home and don't have the 1.5 hours/day commute. And I have 6 years of riding and maintenance under my belt. 

David B in Brooklyn

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

The reason I asked about color is that I’ve seen a couple photos of the apple green and the turquoise rubbing off to expose the true leather color underneath. This morning I saw on Analog’s website that the turquoise DOES rub off really quickly - there’s a photo of a one month old saddle in turquoise and the color is really gone. I don’t mind the darkening that the rest of the Brooks do, though I do miss the undyed look I had on my Select when it was new. 

Roberta - I agree about the violet color! I think it might darken to the antique brown, though. The raspberry is the wrong tone.

BUT, there is a royal blue that might be the cat’s pajamas on my 50 Shades of Blue bike. But I love the copper rivets on the black saddle. Ugh, what to do?!

[Abcyclehank]

Leah,
Your hand wrangling is starting to stress be out. However your increased posting and refreshing posting more than makes up for it.
I am also immensely proud of you increased mechanical aptitude you are a regular hex tool Queen now. Also got for you moving unneeded part out to partially fund your bike fit dialing in and also it’s color, shade, tone, glitter, shine, dirt, quietness compatibility!

Every new list poster brings so much joy to this group in my opinion. Fellow bike nerds make the leap!

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[Mark C]

Leah and Joe, thanks for the advice and the welcome. Sorry about the weird lag in posting and replying, but I was new so my first post took a day and a half to appear. I emailed cyclofiend and think I'm good to go now.

Yes, I did know of a 52, but not sure if it is still available and I'm still a bit befuddled by the choices. I do like the new geometry, so that narrows the used market down.

I think Rivendell got the new geometry for the Clem sorted out on their chart (initially had some numbers switched around, and some other models still looked suspect last I saw). I haven't done the math but am surprised you need to go down to a 50 or 60 stem. I need to do the math for myself now, but more complicated because I'm going from Albatross bars on my Rambouillet to Boscos.

I will say that when you are used to a bike any change is really noticeable. I'd notice the too long stem on my Rambouillet whenever I'd been riding another bike. After a half mile or so I'd just quit noticing and ride it as happily as my other bikes. I did recently get around to fixing it after 16 years, though that was really due to switching from drops to upright bars.

I don't want to sidetrack this thread more, so will try to post a new thread with my Clem fit and gearing questions.

Mark

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[masmojo]

Patrick, thanks for the link to the PDW Beast fenders, I was not aware of those & I think they might be a great match for my Clementine.
I was unsure about fenders for it & was leaning towards the wide flat Honjo's, but I think this has made my mind up!

[Roberta]

Hi, Leah.

That royal is purdy!!!

Why don't you wrap a black shirt around your current saddle.  Do you like the look?  It is quite different from the honey saddle look, but probably looks better with your grey/black grips.

Do you have a deep royal shirt?  Try the seat wrap with that.  Do you like the look?

I only have black saddles, because my Joe Appaloosa came with a black B17 saddle.  I did get a little staining when I first got it, but my black flyer (I swapped out the B17 for flyer) is the same color after two years.  I don't think it stains any longer, but not 100% sure since I tend to ride with the Aardvark saddle cover on it.

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

I think the blue saddle on a blue frame is blue overkill. The black with hammered rivets and copper rails is my jam*

* "is my jam" is a Leah phrase which I have stolen to advise Leah 😁

[masmojo]

Not trying to steal Leah's thunder, but I've referenced my Clementine a few times and it occurs to me there's no point of reference, because I have no real idea how to post pictures, but this one is mine.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hesv4VLThm7nDuWy9

[Joe Bernard]

I can confirm that stealing Leah's thunder is futile, she just brings more thunder.

Nice Clementine in an excellent color! 🍊

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Mad (Kev), no one need worry about stealing my thunder. It’s an equal opportunity Clem thread, so carry on. Your Clementine is so sweet. ❤️

Joe - I wonder if you’ll forgive me when I tell you I ordered the blue Brooks. Maybe overkill is my jam? Also, I got a good deal on it - $95 before taxes from REI! I can return it if it’s “not my jam” and then you can be sure I’ll be “quicker than a jackrabbit on a date” to get the black with copper. The bad news is I have to wait until next week for it. Patience is a virtue but I don’t have that one.

Ryan - you shush over there; you are worse about the details than I am! I believe you once said, “I don’t ride saddles without copper rivets.” 🤣 But you’re right that I’m becoming the queen of the hex keys. It will be my one thing.

Fenders: Riv says no, the SKS 50 will not work with Big Ben. Tight clearance that will be noisy and troublesome. I’m back to hand-wringing about safety vs beauty. The metal fenders that have the breakaways are...ugly... I know how that comes off (vain, silly), but I am, after all, a born and raised North Dakotan, and therefore practicality usually rules. But oh, I’m tempted to get the wavy metal fenders....

And the true tragedy is that I want to wrap my bike in Christmas lights but will have to hold off until fenders and stem are in place. I wish patience was my virtue....

[Steve Palincsar]

So you get the fenders you like and the PDW safety tabs Patrick mentioned, nine bucks a set, and you quit angsting.

https://ridepdw.com/products/full-metal-fenders-safety-tabs?variant=24829153601#

On 11/21/19 5:44 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Fenders: Riv says no, the SKS 50 will not work with Big Ben. Tight clearance that will be noisy and troublesome. I’m back to hand-wringing about safety vs beauty. The metal fenders that have the breakaways are...ugly... I know how that comes off (vain, silly), but I am, after all, a born and raised North Dakotan, and therefore practicality usually rules. But oh, I’m tempted to get the wavy metal fenders.... 

[Leah Peterson]

Steve, is this a real possibility??? These clips will work on VO fenders???

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 21, 2019, at 2:56 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:



So you get the fenders you like and the PDW safety tabs Patrick mentioned, nine bucks a set, and you quit angsting.

<dcglbhpddcceepfn.png>

https://ridepdw.com/products/full-metal-fenders-safety-tabs?variant=24829153601#

On 11/21/19 5:44 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Fenders: Riv says no, the SKS 50 will not work with Big Ben. Tight clearance that will be noisy and troublesome. I’m back to hand-wringing about safety vs beauty. The metal fenders that have the breakaways are...ugly... I know how that comes off (vain, silly), but I am, after all, a born and raised North Dakotan, and therefore practicality usually rules. But oh, I’m tempted to get the wavy metal fenders.... 

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

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[Joe Bernard]

Yes, those thingeys work on the fenders you want. Yay!!! 🕺💃

[Garth]

   Well gee Leah, I have the P50 fenders on my Bombadil, they've been on there since I bought it. This year I got some 700x50mm Big Bens.The actual fender width is a little more than 50mm , and the tire a little less, and there is more than enough vertical clearance... as in however much I want. The width coverage is surely not "as they say" , yeah well so what, it's good enough for me. I have them on there more for road debris anyways, not so much rain as I find in an actual downpour I get soaked anyways and everyways and so does the bike.

[Steve Palincsar]

Here's what they look like installed:

The end of the fender stay simply fits into the tab.  That should work with any fender stay that is of the appropriate diameter.   I don't know what diameter PDW uses for its fender stays, but you should be able to find that out with an email or phone call; ditto for VO.   Neither seems to indicate the fender stay diameter on their web sites.   Honjo uses a 5mm stay and it's very likely so too do PDW and VO.  PDW's number is  (503) 234-7257

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[Leah Peterson]

ALL IS RIGHT IN MY WORLD AND THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 21, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:



Here's what they look like installed:

<bdfafinojfcdahid.png>

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[DHans]

Nice steed masmojo. I like the green saddle bag against the orange frame. Leah, I am enjoying your quest to personalize your bike! I’m on the hunt for a Clem L 52 but will be patient and wait. My old GT mountain bike commuter conversion is really a nice ride. Old school steel.
Doug

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I called PDW, and wow, were they helpful. I only meant to ask about the breakaways fitting other fenders, VO specifically. The guy was *so* nice and said, “Actually, I think VO has a system in place for break away already - I think it’s called ‘R clips.’” Sure enough, those clips are listed among parts coming with the fenders, though what they are isn’t explained. So, he told me I may not need his clips and I should call VO.

I tried to confirm with VO, but they are an east coast office and are closed. So, I ordered the fenders online and will call VO in the morning. I told him there may be an increase in 650 b fender orders since their Beast fenders are being favorably discussed on our Google Group.

I ordered the VO silver wavy fenders that are good for tires up to 50 mm. The conversion from 2 inches to mm is 50.8. I hope they work! Now. I have to decide which poor mechanic I will inflict these upon. I dread asking...

One step closer to the finished product. Thanks again, friends!

[Patrick Moore]

Are metal R clips "break away"? Those I've used seem to hold the struts pretty tightly. I'll be glad if they are, since that's what I am using now on the Matthews.

Now, I do think that plastic R clips release easily; but metal? Can anyone confirm -- or correct -- the PDW opinion?

I just looked at Rene Herse: They sell the plastic ones as "quick release" meaning safety release, but don't mention this with their metal clips.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop/components/fenders/berthoud-r-clamps/

Plastic R-Clamps from Gilles Berthoud are useful if you want a quick release on your fender stays: The plastic clamp will release the fender stay if the fender crumbles. This is useful if your fenders are mounted with less-than-optimal clearances. (If you have the recommended 20+ mm clearance between tire and fender, there is little risk of a fender collapsing and jamming into the fork crown.)

Why not use the plastic R-Clamps on all bikes? When you ride on rough roads, the stays can work loose over time. Check them periodically to make sure.

Fabrique en France: I don't see why they have to be imported! Come to think of it, the real cheapo fenders I bought for my Dahon have plastic R clips; hecho en Mexio, probably.

[Steve Palincsar]

That's an R clip.  On this bicycle they're used in back to facilitate removal of the split rear half of the fender.  Loosen the allen bolt, undo the wing nut

separate the back half of the fender, and pull it right off for Rinko packing.   If you leave them loose, on impact the stays can slide in the clip.

I know this first hand.  One Bike Virginia I had just climbed a hill and recognized there on top of the hill by the side of the road taking a break a guy I'd known back 20 years ago and hadn't seen in all that time.  So I stopped to chat, and while I was standing there talking with him, somebody else climbed the hill and lost control, went off the road and rode into the back of my bike.  When I rode down the hill I noticed a tremendous amount of drag, so I stopped and discovered when he'd rammed into me the rear fender had slid forward and was actually contacting the tire.

So maybe if you keep it fairly loose, you could use an R clip as a break-away device.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Patrick Moore, are you going to ruin this for me? Oh fine, I just ordered the breakaways (they’re a grand total of $11 and change with shipping) and then I have them, come what may.

A tip: The very nice guy on the phone said they have very few left in the shop; get them now! If they are out he said you can have your shop try to get them from a distributor. Or something.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Steve is correct - that’s what PDW described to me. So maybe not an actual breakaway, but a design work-around. I’m not sure a mechanic would know what I meant, so I’ll bring the PDW breakaways when I have the fenders installed.

[Patrick Moore]

If you mean that your ordered the VO metal clips, I'd suggest just using them; I think that the danger of clogging the fender while riding smooth-tread tires on pavement is so small as to be negligible. And, perhaps these are made in USA!

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 6:44 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick Moore, are you going to ruin this for me? Oh fine, I just ordered the breakaways (they’re a grand total of $11 and change with shipping) and then I have them, come what may.

A tip: The very nice guy on the phone said they have very few left in the shop; get them now! If they are out he said you can have your shop try to get them from a distributor. Or something.

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-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[JAS]

Thanks for the conversation, Leah. I am learning a lot by reading the advice and experience from other posters. Though I might be repeating what you’ve already heard from others, here’s my take on your questions:
1. I agree with the others; falls from fender jams are unlikely in your riding conditions. I live in the PNW and use fenders all the time. My usual Clem ride (with plastic fenders) is on a dirt trail that is strewn with sticks, leaves, and blackberry vines. Once in a while a leaf gets stuck, but I’ve never had a jam of any kind that caused a sudden halt.
2. I love the Selle Anatomical saddles; I’ve tried many over the years and this was the first one that is entirely comfortable. I have the one with the center cut on all of my bikes and I’m happy with black. They have black with copper rivets as a choice. They’ve had red ones in the past; check out the seconds listing. If you’re interested about how they dye them, I’d just call. I’ve experienced great customer service from them.
3. Those wavy silver fenders are fantastic! They would look so good on your blue Clem....unique, sparkly , and strong...just like you!

[John McClusky]

If you love the Ergon grips and your brown or honey saddle as much as I like mine, you can always get the biokork Ergons

https://www.rei.com/product/884443/ergon-gp1-biokork-handlebar-grips?CAWELAID=120217890000752296&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15877513960&CATCI=pla-448206113671&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C404_164215%7C8844430002%7Cnone%7C_kenshoo_clickid_%7Cpla-448206113671&lsft=cm_mmc:PLA_Google_LIA%7C404_164215%7C8844430002%7Cnone%7C_kenshoo_clickid_&kclid=_kenshoo_clickid_&gclid=Cj0KCQiAq97uBRCwARIsADTziyYS_7gEgAljAB6_qJAlSVGKnEycdSBe9l7Lp7f8VsP-eIoGFQ4boi0aAkBCEALw_wcB

20% off while their sale is going on. I have that set up on a Brompton and really like it. As for fenders, I had a sett of Honjos and gave them away. I ride a gravel path a lot and the noise of the gravel bouncing around in the fenders drove me batty. Replaced them with SKS from Riv. I thought they were much quieter just not as nice looking.

John

John

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

JAS,

Thanks so much for the note! You ride a Clem too? I knew you were good people.

I, too, have learned so much from this conversation; I was so frustrated and felt stuck in the fender situation, and now it’s solved and I am relieved. Even better is that it has been so *enjoyable*; I really wish we were all doing this over coffee.

I’ve seen the Selle Atomica saddles; I had Brooks first and haven’t had fit issues, so I’ve not given a lot of thought to the Selle Atomicas. What do you prefer about them?

I’m glad you think the wavy silver fenders and I are going to get along - “unique, sparkly and strong” is high praise, indeed! Thank you. 😊

[Joyce Swanson]

Leah, yes I’m in the Clem Club!  It’s dark green and though I would have preferred silver or that dreamy blue, I’m embracing the color and just enjoying the ride so much it really doesn’t matter.  I once called Rivendell to see if I could get a Clementine sticker for it, but no luck.  I’d LOVE to have it say Clementine on one side.  Oh well.

What I like about Selle Anatomica is it’s the only saddle after trying oh, so many, that didn’t hurt my “girl parts.” (Well, that was personal!) Even the Terry saddles with the cut out didn’t work for me.  If you like Brooks, that’s good!  I can hardly wait to see your Clem with your new one.

Keep on writing and riding; I always enjoy your creative posts.  Every time I read the title of this one I hear a song.  “I met him on a Monday and my heart stood still. Da doo ron ron ron, da doo ron ron. Somebody told me that his name was Bill...”   (no doubt the song writers didn’t have a new bike in mind, but it works for me:  ”Yeah, Clem caught caught my eye.  Yes, but my oh my!”)

—Joyce 

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[Leah Peterson]

Joyce! I love being in the Clem Club with you! You have yours set up so nicely, and I love to see how happy your Clem makes you. Are you decking it out with Christmas lights and sleigh bells again this year? I laughed out loud at your Clem Song. Truly, this is now our anthem.

Friends - if you aren’t on Instagram you should join us there, we have a ton of fun, and this is how I know about Joyce and her Christmas Clem. Her Clem decorating was the first photo I saw of her and you know we got acquainted after that! Don’t join me if you disapprove of shenanigans though - my page is full of those. (See my “Shakedown Ride” video of my new Clem.) Joyce is much more sensible and artistic with her posts. The List is great for conversations and learning and serious stuff, but Instagram is the icing on the cake. The lube on the chain. The Brooks on the Rivendell. The Sackville on the Nitto rack. 

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 22, 2019, at 11:46 AM, Joyce Swanson <swanso...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Leah,

I'm using PDW Safety Tabs with VO fenders; it's a very simple installation. I'm running smooth tires and there's lots of clearance, but still, it's reassuring to have.

Bob E

Cranford, NJ

[Leah Peterson]

Hi All, who can tell me if the fenders I ordered are damaged? 

One end of one fender looks pinched. The box isn’t damaged. Is there a reason for it? Can a mechanic heat and bend it or will it look stupid? The fenders are packaged one inside the other. Just so you can understand what you’re looking at...

The bike isn’t being serviced until Saturday so advise me quick and I may get another set before then!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 21, 2019, at 5:43 AM, in Dallas nick <trueg...@att.net> wrote:



Probably a goofy thought but

if one preferred the name Clementine 

would it fit if a bike decal maker made a same size / color decals of ' entine '

to mount beside the current Clem decals?

Someone may have already thrown that idea out there for consideration.

Paul in Dallas 

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[Steve Palincsar]

I really doubt that's what they're supposed to look like - looks like the sides were squashed together - maybe something heavy was put on top of the box during shipment.  Two possibilities:

1) contact VO

2) you could try un-squashing the edges.   VO says they're aluminum, so you won't have to heat it, just spread the edges with your fingers.

Actually, regardless of how you feel about (2) go ahead and do (1) anyway.

On 11/26/19 5:44 PM, Leah Peterson wrote:

Hi All, who can tell me if the fenders I ordered are damaged? 

One end of one fender looks pinched. The box isn’t damaged. Is there a reason for it? Can a mechanic heat and bend it or will it look stupid? The fenders are packaged one inside the other. Just so you can understand what you’re looking at...

The bike isn’t being serviced until Saturday so advise me quick and I may get another set before then!

[Eric Norris]

Is that the front part of the rear fender that attaches to the chainstay bridge between the chainstays? Perhaps it’s supposed to be narrowed like that to fit between the stays?

--Eric N

On Nov 26, 2019, at 2:44 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All, who can tell me if the fenders I ordered are damaged? 

One end of one fender looks pinched. The box isn’t damaged. Is there a reason for it? Can a mechanic heat and bend it or will it look stupid? The fenders are packaged one inside the other. Just so you can understand what you’re looking at...

The bike isn’t being serviced until Saturday so advise me quick and I may get another set before then!

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 21, 2019, at 5:43 AM, in Dallas nick <trueg...@att.net> wrote:



Probably a goofy thought but

if one preferred the name Clementine 

would it fit if a bike decal maker made a same size / color decals of ' entine '

to mount beside the current Clem decals?

Someone may have already thrown that idea out there for consideration.

Paul in Dallas 

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/26/19 6:02 PM, 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
> Is that the front part of the rear fender that attaches to the
> chainstay bridge between the chainstays? Perhaps it’s supposed to be
> narrowed like that to fit between the stays?

I doubt it: squashed in the way it is now, it would bind on any but the
narrowest tire.  And anyway I've never seen a fender come pre-indented
for the chain stays, and that's not what a stay indentation looks like.
http://notfine.com/bikes/articles/MetalFenders-BQ34.pdf   see p. 3 for
indenting fender for chainstay

[Leah Peterson]

It’s been one thing after another. I didn’t update this post yet, but I managed to install my new stem a few days ago. I was so proud of myself for actually accomplishing this very easy task, but when I went for a test ride, I felt like the stem was no different. I looked more closely at the packaging. They sent me the exact stem I already had (90) though I ordered a much shorter one (60). Now today my fenders arrived damaged.

But the true tragedy? I can’t deck out my bike in Christmas lights until the fenders and stem are installed.

I’m not crying you’re crying.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 26, 2019, at 3:15 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:
>
> 

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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

As long as those puppies aren’t creased, you should be able to bend them back by hand...

[Leah Peterson]

It’s funny you wrote this, Alex. I just spent it by hand and it looks mostly OK. There’s no creasing or obvious defects on the metal. It looks like it needs a little more bending than I can give it though. Does it show here?

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Hmm, it’s tough to really tell but it does look narrower in the picture....

The other tricky part is as you bend the fender narrower or wider it changes the overall radius as it relates to the wheel.

(That’s how a “pro” installer gets the fender line perfect)

Sorry this is causing stress, I’ve been there. sometimes we have to remember how lucky we are vs being bummed about delays 🙃

I’d try and FaceTime the troupe at VO tomorrow. Without exaggerating, they had the best customer service of any vendor I’d ever interacted with.

[Mark Roland]

I feel for you, but this is very funny. Never heard this expression before. Yeah, working on bikes can be trying at times, especially when you think everything is good--but it isn't. Just last night I was putting on some new handlebars on a bike. I got so into setting up the bar-end shifters, I forgot the brake levers need to go on first...Worse though when despite your diligent efforts something out of your control goes south.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 6:20:15 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I’m not crying you’re crying.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 26, 2019, at 3:15 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:
>
> 
>> On 11/26/19 6:02 PM, 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>> Is that the front part of the rear fender that attaches to the chainstay bridge between the chainstays? Perhaps it’s supposed to be narrowed like that to fit between the stays?
>
>
> I doubt it: squashed in the way it is now, it would bind on any but the narrowest tire.  And anyway I've never seen a fender come pre-indented for the chain stays, and that's not what a stay indentation looks like. http://notfine.com/bikes/articles/MetalFenders-BQ34.pdf   see p. 3 for indenting fender for chainstay
>
> --
>
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
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[Leah Peterson]

It’s tough to tell, I agree. Well, maybe bending it back was the wrong thing to do? I don’t know. I hope the “master mechanic” at REI knows about fenders and is as particular as we folks on this List are.

I hate to admit this, but I ordered these fenders from Amazon. I needed them to get here fast so I could make my upcoming fender appt at REI. Of course Amazon had the fastest shipping and would get it here in time. Well, we see how that worked out!

I just want the bike to be finished and finally be mine. I’ve been waiting to deck it out in Christmas lights until the work was done, but time is slipping away. Maybe I should just put on my lights and worry about fenders after Christmas. Or make these fenders work. Why don’t any of you live in Vegas?! We would have this decided by now!

Mark - that expression is funny. I took it out of the usual pop culture context though. Also, it is sort of comforting to my selfish heart that you are *also* having bike woes. 🤣

I’m kidding. Sort of. 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 26, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles <482...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hmm, it’s tough to really tell but it does look narrower in the picture....

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[Steve Palincsar]

Even worse when it's 9 pm and you're installing shift cables and you mistake the front and rear cables, install the rear cable in the front shifter and cut it to size... and then try to install the other one in the rear.

Momma said there'd be days like this...

[Joe Bernard]

Strange days indeed!

[Deacon Patrick]

An early lesson I learned in my foray into doing most of my own bike mechanics was how very desperately I needed to apprentice with Saint Joseph in his workshop. He is expert at taking stunningly raw material and crafting beautiful things through loving patience, perseverance, charity, et al. He's taught me that nothing is worth fretting over, that it is better to walk away and focus on something I can do and somehow I thing I couldn't do becomes simple and easy to do. I have much yet to learn under his stewardship, and I look forward to it with abandon. Every request (as one does with a friend and mentor) I've made of him has been answered beyond my wildest comprehension and in a way I would have never known to ask for. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 10:52:42 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I’ve had my 2019 blue Clem L for a few weeks now, but it’s taken me awhile to get it set up for me. It’s still very much a work in progress, but it’s really turning out to be a spectacular bicycle. As I discussed in a previous post A Tale of Two Clems, this new Clem is quite different than my 2015 Clementine. The Clementine fit me like a glove with zero need for adjustments. The new Clem is much longer, which changed a lot for me. I needed a shorter stem (went from a 12 to a 9...or something), and even so, I’m probably going to scoot my Brooks a bit forward because I *still* want the grips closer to me. I’m 5’6” with an 83 cm PBH, but I wonder if the 45 would have fit me like my old Clementine does. 

The Clem also boasts the fancy seat lug I adore, cream fills in the lugwork, slimmer, lithe-looking tubes and a gorgeous metallic blue paint that no camera can capture. The bike just begs for blue and more blue, and I’ve answered it. I’ve come to think of it as the 50 Shades of Blue Bike. 

I got it back from the shop yesterday. It has the new stem, a Nitto Basket Rack, the Big Bens stolen from the Clementine, and was supposed to have the Clementine’s fenders. The mechanic got the message mixed up and didn’t install them, so the Clem is fenderless for now. The same day my Randi Jo bag arrived, so I added that (the patch was a gift from our Roberta and a perfect accessory to the bag) and put all my Sackville on the Clem. This bike is now FORMIDABLE. What can it not do for me now?

I took it out for an hour last night and laughed in the dark for most of the ride. It is so much FUN. The Clem glides along, confident and strong. It feels masculine, like its whisking me away somewhere, and I feel like I’m in good hands. This is huge for me. I do a lot of hand-wringing when I get a new bike, or even a new bike PART (I cried when I wore out my first set of tires on the Betty and had to get new ones). I wonder if I’ve made a mistake. I have visions of the bike falling apart underneath me as I ride down the mountain on our school route. I rode the Betty exclusively for nearly 7 years and it never let me down, so the Clem has a lot of live up to. So far, so good.

I took it to the boys’ school today loaded with: 2 U-locks, a lunchbox, a laptop, a violin, a clarinet and my small personal effects. No sweat! The bike shifts effortlessly, climbs just great and doesn’t complain about the weight it carries. 

I’m still figuring out what grips I want (these black Ergon grips are nice, but I need brown) and what fenders to get. The SKS on the Clementine are fat and floppy looking, and the mechanic says the measurements are nearly the same for the new bike. Meaning, the fenders are going to look just as sloppy on the Clem, so he didn’t install them. I’ve got the Big Ben tires; does anyone have a suggestion for good fenders (not metal) that will be a nicer fit? I love how well the SKS fit and look on my Betty. 

Below are photos from yesterday. You can see the new bike along with the other 2 I currently have. I’m really more of a 2 bike person, so I’ll likely be selling the Clementine soon. I also made a fun 1 minute video of my “shakedown ride” last night but I’m not sure you can view it on this platform. Knowing that it’s goofy and not at all academic, PM me if you want to view it anyway and I’ll send it to you. Or, find me on Instagram. It’s a regular party over there!

Leah