On Jun 3, 2023, at 8:51 PM, Nick A. <thetaper...@gmail.com> wrote:
I ran the Soma Cazadero 700c/50mm last winter/spring and loved them. I see Soma also makes 650x50. Might be worth looking into, especially if you're concerned about the cornering. As for the fenders, I'd just see if they can fit the tires you want, and bail on 'em if they won't fit.
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On Jun 3, 2023, at 9:17 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:
I love my Clem L 52 on gravel! My favorite tire so far has been the Simworks Homage in 27.5” x 55. I had and liked Gravelking SS which were very nice set up tubeless but were too fragile resulting in a large percentage of the bike being covered in the muck. I am quite happy now running tubes with the Homage tires. It’s a great all around tire, reasonably quiet on pavement & grippy enough for mild singletrack. It’s a true 55mm tire on Cliffhangers so not sure about the fenders. I sure there are faster options but comfort is outstanding & more important to me than speed.
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On Jun 4, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm Team Knobbies but I don't know anything, including what y'all mean when you say a surface is gravel. I put something called Compass (Rene Herse) Pumpkin Ridges on recently and went riding on dirt and small rocks, it was fun. I didn't even crash!
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On Jun 4, 2023, at 7:55 AM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow, I have read these responses 3 times through. Lots of suggestions and information here, and I thank you. I had initially thought gravel riding required knobbies but it appears that is untrue - you can run slicks. I don’t like the idea of knobbies throwing rocks, so I’m heading away from that option. I think I will look for 48 or 50 mm tires, since that’s what the fenders can handle. I will never ride through mud. I’m not going all hard-core over here! Undecided on tubeless, still. The Clem doesn’t get a lot of miles, but I also have never fixed a flat and would like to avoid that…
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On Jun 4, 2023, at 9:58 AM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:
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On Jun 4, 2023, at 1:32 PM, Slin <sli...@gmail.com> wrote:
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I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like gravel?
1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike?
2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.
3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.
4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.
I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses.BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these days. I have questions, and you have answers.1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:
2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.
3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.
4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.
Here is my Clem in its current configuration, and yes, I know the Backabikes gotta go.
Thanks for your help!Leah
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Great condition, < 100 miles. These are the superlight casing, weigh 370g each and ride like clouds. Asking $65 for both. Please PM for interest, thanks!Jeff (Alabama)
1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike?Yes, but do you really want to? They'll limit your tire choice and it'll sound like you're shaking a soda (pop) can (let's please not pollute the thread with that discussion) full of rocks all ride long. As others have graphically shown, if it's muddy, you'll just pack the mudguards full of mud. That said, I run fenders on my Breadwinner, because most of my riding is on pavement and, until recently, the roads were frequently wet. If was planning a longer off-road ride, I'd ditch the fenders.
2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.Part of this comes down to what you mean by "gravel". Tread only starts to make a difference when you're in soft stuff, where the edges of the knobs can bite into something to provide more acceleration/deceleration/cornering force. When you take a turn on gravel you're going to have much less traction than on pavement, regardless of the tires. Those pesky little gravel bits are easy to shove aside, and hooking the edge of a knob on them just shoves them harder.
3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.Again, this may be a function of what type of "gravel" you're on. For the crushed limestone trails of Wisconsin at reasonable speeds, 42 is plenty. If you get into softer, sandy trails, though, or you love to fly through hairpin turns, bigger is always better. I ride 48s on my Breadwinner and never feel like I have "too much tire" under me. Unlike knobs, wider tires provide a genuine cornering advantage on loose surfaces, as they spread the force across lots more of those pesky little gravel bits, putting less force on each bit.
4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.I don't think gravel vs pavement enters into that decision, unless by "gravel" you mean bouncing over baby heads at high speed. One of the big benefits is eliminating pinch flats, which generally result from hitting fairly large chunks of something at low pressure. But you can do that in a Wisconsin pot hole on pavement, too. I'm running tubeless on my Breadwinner, but I'm not convinced it's an improvement, especially if you're not riding the bike frequently. I'm careful about storing my bike, but I still get sealant drying in the valve stems, which makes it very hard to put in air.
Tires: what an embarrassment of riches we have today, compared to even 10 years ago.
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I attached here a section from Riv's website about tire ride quality fyi.
That section is from Soma, not Riv, and it says, "There is a pervasive myth that thin, "supple" tire sidewalls are essential to a smooth and cushy ride. That is misleading at best, bullshit at worst." (I could be wrong, but I don't think Grant has ever sworn like that in anything he's published, btw.)
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I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses.BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these days. I have questions, and you have answers.
1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:
2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.
3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.
4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.
Here is my Clem in its current configuration, and yes, I know the Backabikes gotta go.
A contrarian POV from a committed Fender Freak who says if you want fenders - Go For It!I've been riding gravel fire roads and moderate single track in the Southern Appalachians on bikes with aluminum fenders for several years now and would be loath to give them up, even though they admittedly limit the size tires I can use. Yes - a rock occasionally pings off of them BUT there are no paint chips, dings or scratches on the underside of the downtube or chain stays. An additional benefit is that the drive train stays clean, not to mention my backside.A few suggestions if you are considering fenders for off pavement riding:- Allow plenty of clearance between the rubber and the fender - at least 10mm, more is better. I've been running 40 & 42mm knobby tires with 58mm fenders.- Just say no to mud flaps on the front. They're great in the rain but you're likely to pick up more pebbles, twigs and leaves when off pavement.- Consider plastic break away mounting hardware for the front sender stays (see Rene Here or Portland Design Works)- Unsurprisingly, short knobs - or slicks - play better with fenders.- If you like to ride through deep mud and over wet red clay roads skip the fenders and stock up on replacement chains, chain rings, rear cogs derailleurs and bottom brackets.--On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 2:50:00 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:15:22 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like gravel?
It will be as great for "gravel" as it is for any other surface!
1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike?
Yes, but do you really want to? They'll limit your tire choice and it'll sound like you're shaking a soda (pop) can (let's please not pollute the thread with that discussion) full of rocks all ride long. As others have graphically shown, if it's muddy, you'll just pack the mudguards full of mud. That said, I run fenders on my Breadwinner, because most of my riding is on pavement and, until recently, the roads were frequently wet. If was planning a longer off-road ride, I'd ditch the fenders.
2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.
Part of this comes down to what you mean by "gravel". Tread only starts to make a difference when you're in soft stuff, where the edges of the knobs can bite into something to provide more acceleration/deceleration/cornering force. When you take a turn on gravel you're going to have much less traction than on pavement, regardless of the tires. Those pesky little gravel bits are easy to shove aside, and hooking the edge of a knob on them just shoves them harder.
3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.
Again, this may be a function of what type of "gravel" you're on. For the crushed limestone trails of Wisconsin at reasonable speeds, 42 is plenty. If you get into softer, sandy trails, though, or you love to fly through hairpin turns, bigger is always better. I ride 48s on my Breadwinner and never feel like I have "too much tire" under me. Unlike knobs, wider tires provide a genuine cornering advantage on loose surfaces, as they spread the force across lots more of those pesky little gravel bits, putting less force on each bit.
4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.
I don't think gravel vs pavement enters into that decision, unless by "gravel" you mean bouncing over baby heads at high speed. One of the big benefits is eliminating pinch flats, which generally result from hitting fairly large chunks of something at low pressure. But you can do that in a Wisconsin pot hole on pavement, too. I'm running tubeless on my Breadwinner, but I'm not convinced it's an improvement, especially if you're not riding the bike frequently. I'm careful about storing my bike, but I still get sealant drying in the valve stems, which makes it very hard to put in air.
Tires: what an embarrassment of riches we have today, compared to even 10 years ago. The revelation for me was Kirk Pacenti's Pari-Motos, at 650x38B, which caused me to audibly gasp on the first downhill. Since then, Grand Bois, Compass/Rene Herse, Ultradynamico... all of them have pretty much the same thing going: super supple tires made by Panaracer in Japan. Start with size, then narrow it down by tread, casing strength, color, and price. I'm a dedicated Rene Herse tire fan. The Gravel Kings I put on my Sam #1 are outstanding, too. I'm looking forward to trying Ultradynamicos on my Sam #2.
@Leah - Have you tried taking the Clem out on gravel rides, as-is? I've also got a Clem and Platy, so I'm curious to hear how you experience them differently on the same trails.S
On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:15:22 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses.BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these days. I have questions, and you have answers.1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:
2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.
3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.
4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.
On Jun 7, 2023, at 8:17 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:
I used to always fender my bikes because I liked the looks but then realized that I was never in any conditions where they were needed from a practical sense so I changed my mind and now never use them.
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I find a use for them nearly every ride - there is always some puddle or a bunch of goose poop that makes me thank my lucky stars for fenders.
I'm curious now. Is goose poop worse than horse poop?
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On Jun 9, 2023, at 5:15 PM, Gill <crgi...@gmail.com> wrote:
The fact that the OP’s query has already been thoroughly dealt with won’t dissuade me from chiming in on a subject near and dear (besides, if posters were not able to beat dead horses this forum would have dissolved years ago). I own a Clem and ride off road, gravel/trail riding is the fourth most favorite thing I do in life. I highly encourage others to do it on a Clem. Opinion, highly subjective, yes, but I do have a kind of data point. Usually I’m solo but last summer I joined a group ride (my daughter said I needed to make new friends). This served as a good barometer of how Clem compared with other “gravel” bikes. My inaugural ride was 19 miles moving at a good clip, mostly off-road at the end of which another rider smiled and said “You just ride that thing don’t you“. I translated that to, “turns out that’s a nice bicycle and my unspoken questioning of its appropriateness for this ride was unfounded, my apologies“. Worth noting, unlike Kai’s tough looking Clem mine is a Riv blue step thru and gets no respect. The qualities that make the Clem a good gravel bike are those that make it a good bike period: bulletproof frame, long wheel base, stable handling, gearing that gets you over/through anything you have any business being on, fits most any tire and uber comfortable. I might add that part of that comfort comes from the bosco bars – Clems suspension system –a swept back pliant trail chatter sponge that doesn’t compromise control. So resist the temptation to immediately switch em out for off-road. Happy trails.
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On Jun 9, 2023, at 3:15 PM, Gill <crgi...@gmail.com> wrote:
The fact that the OP’s query has already been thoroughly dealt with won’t dissuade me from chiming in on a subject near and dear (besides, if posters were not able to beat dead horses this forum would have dissolved years ago). I own a Clem and ride off road, gravel/trail riding is the fourth most favorite thing I do in life. I highly encourage others to do it on a Clem. Opinion, highly subjective, yes, but I do have a kind of data point. Usually I’m solo but last summer I joined a group ride (my daughter said I needed to make new friends). This served as a good barometer of how Clem compared with other “gravel” bikes. My inaugural ride was 19 miles moving at a good clip, mostly off-road at the end of which another rider smiled and said “You just ride that thing don’t you“. I translated that to, “turns out that’s a nice bicycle and my unspoken questioning of its appropriateness for this ride was unfounded, my apologies“. Worth noting, unlike Kai’s tough looking Clem mine is a Riv blue step thru and gets no respect. The qualities that make the Clem a good gravel bike are those that make it a good bike period: bulletproof frame, long wheel base, stable handling, gearing that gets you over/through anything you have any business being on, fits most any tire and uber comfortable. I might add that part of that comfort comes from the bosco bars – Clems suspension system –a swept back pliant trail chatter sponge that doesn’t compromise control. So resist the temptation to immediately switch em out for off-road. Happy trails.
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On Jun 11, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:
I was under the understanding that the current Pacenti Brevet rims are tubeless ready.
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On Jun 11, 2023, at 1:37 PM, Bob Ehrenbeck <ree...@gmail.com> wrote:
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On Jun 14, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Vincent Tamer <vjt...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'll add my two cents now. I commute on my clem and ride gravel whenever I can. I've had fenders on it nearly all the time I've had this bike and I've taken it into some pretty rough spots that I would say are just outside of gravel such as riding on old train track. If it's still called gravel, it's the coarsest kind. It was small stones in some spots.
I ride with Ultradynamico Cavas which are great but you can go with the ROSe' tires from UD if you want something with more tooth. I've debated taking the fenders off for the summer but do like how it keeps me, my bags and my drivetrain a bit less dusty so they will most likely stay on the bike. Plus I'm a little lazy. I've done some nasty riding in mud with fenders and made it work but it was a pain and had to stop to bang all the mud out. Other than that I haven't regretted the fenders aside from aesthetic reasons but sometimes they look cool.
<Clem.jpg>
On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:15:22 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses.BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these days. I have questions, and you have answers.1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a healthy fear of crashing.3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are wide enough.4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But that can be changed right quick.Here is my Clem in its current configuration, and yes, I know the Backabikes gotta go.Thanks for your help!Leah
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<Clem.jpg>
I'm curious now. Is goose poop worse than horse poop?On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:10:11 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I find a use for them nearly every ride - there is always some puddle or a bunch of goose poop that makes me thank my lucky stars for fenders.
LOL, yeah, we've had no rain for a month here and the goose poop at the lakefront is epic right now. +1 for fenders.That said, I have yet to find any goose poop on a gravel road. Our Wisconsin network of crushed limestone rail-trails, on the other hand, can be full of stuff you don't want spraying on your legs and back. Last year I did a 300km loop around SE Wisconsin, 111km of which was on trails. It didn't rain on us, but it had rained the day before, and some of the trails were still pretty damp. I was very happy to have fenders, even though there was a fair amount of sand rattling around in them. The guy riding behind me was sure glad I had them.Ted DurantMilwaukee, WI USA