Seeking tire kibitzing

[Stephen Merelman]

I've been riding 700x50 Gravelkings tubeless on my Atlantis. Velocity Cliffhanger rims. 

I've been riding mainly long distances on pavement and the center ridges are getting fairly worn and I'm beginning to deal with pinhole leaks. 

Perhaps it's time to go to something svelter, tubeless or not. Schwalbe Marathon 45?

Everyone has an opinion on this sort of thing. Let 'em rip!

smm

[Patrick Moore]

I have no recommendation to make, but I do have an observation that might at least indirectly help the general public discriminate among 700C X 50 slick and small-knob tires; basically “all rounder” tires that are fun to ride on pavement as well as in dirt.

On my 2016 Matthews dirt road road bike (or “road bike for dirt,” tho’ someone complained about that monicker; but it’s the description I gave to Chauncey) I’ve used:

50 mm Furious Freds (true 50 mm on 27 mm IW rims, a digital 360 grams);

60 MM Big Ones (the ultralight version — 450 digital grams);

Rene Herse 48 cm Oracle Ridges (~48-49mm, 540 grams);

Soma Supple Vitesse SLs (true 50 mm at 360 digital grams);

Thunderburts at ~54 mm and 540 grams (forget; about the same as the Oracles).

Since the Matthews was designed and built for riding our very sandy-soil ditchbank roads, I generally keep the Thunderburt wheelset on the bike, but today I rode the SSV SL wheelset. Again, 50 mm, very supple, 360 grams, and a nicely rounded profile that, unlike the more square profile of the F Freds or the Thunderburts, allows the bike to handle at least distantly like my 1999 Joe Riv Road Custom that I gave (literally; he took it home to analyze it) to Chauncey as the handling model.

But!!! There is a very noticeable “seat of pants” difference in the perceived pedaling effort between these tires. To put it another way, I routinely find myself choosing gears 1 tooth higher or lower depending on the tire installed.

The Big One was the Ultima Thule of tire rolling wonderfulness; the only other tire that “felt” — but over miles and miles — as fast is the unutterably awesome 175 gram 559X28 mm RH Elk Pass. Yes, the 450 gram 61 mm actual Big One felt as fast — judging by ease of turning over a given gear in given conditions — as the Elk Pass.

But the Big One committed the mortal sin of wallowing in turns; this is a common perception; and one of the whole points of this bike was that it handle as much like my custom Riv Roads as possible. So I switched to the Somas; hallelujah! they made the bike handle much like my Riv Roads.

The SSVSLs brought the bike back to the “like my Riv Road” handling I wanted. BUT! I’ve been noticing this very recently: even at 90 grams lighter and 11 mm narrower than the Big Ones, the Somas just don’t roll as nicely; and these and the “Super Lights” — “SLs.” I tend to ride 1 tooth bigger in back, and in fact, they “feel” as if they roll like the ~49 mm actual (27 mm IW rims) Oracle Ridges, which were indeed a Goldllocks tire for pavement cornering and sandy float — only setting them up tubeless was a major pain in the  ass. 

Also, the Somas with their very rounded as opposed to flatter and squarer profile, just don’t float and track in sand as well as the fat, if round, Big Ones, and the squarer F Freds and Thunderburts — the very rounded profile sinks into sand and the bike “plows”, making directional control very iffy by comparison.

The 49 mm-actual Oracle Ridge was indeed a Goldilocks tire for ease of pedaling, pavement cornering, and sand float and directional control, but man! Were they ever hard to set up tubeless! What a very bloody pain indeed, requiring literally a pint of OS in each tire to seal the beads and, even then, much more liable to deflation by goatheads. Contrast with the Thunderburts, described below.

The Thunderburts OTOH set up tubeless with  miraculous ease (beads pop into place with regular floor pump, hold air even before putting in sealant), and they seem to roll as well a the Soma SVSLs; at least, I seem to choose the same cogs for given conditions. But alas, not Goldilocks as the Oracles, because while they float over sand very well, their square profile does not do as well in pavement cornering.

So, I switch back and forth between the Thunderburts for most — combined sandy ditchbank and pavement — riding, and the SSVSLs for principally pavement riding.

I mean to experiment with TPU tubes and OS regular formula, and perhaps the ultimate Goldilocks solution for this bike will be Oracle Ridge extralights with TPU tubes and OS regular sealant; will see and in the event will report.

With that excessively long windup, I’ll be interested in others’ thoughts about true 700C X 50 mm “Goldilocks” tires that handle well in pavement corners yet give sufficient “float” in sandy soil.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f71f07e0-2b73-40fb-a9cb-602be8e9e888n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,

But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,

I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

[Nick A.]

I also ride an Atlantis with Cliffhanger rims, running tubes (so far, both butyl and TPU). I have absolutely loved the old GK slick 700x43 (actually 44-45) for pavement riding, so much that I picked up a backup pair on ebay. They roll so well and have plenty enough volume to soak up roots and road chatter. There's about 1700 miles on my current set, and I've only experienced one flat, when I rolled over a metal shard down by National Airport. Maybe give those a go! I saw that Panaracer has released their new formulation of GK slicks in 700x45.

Nick

Falls Church VA

[David]

You can now purchase tubeless compatible marathons, but they’re designed to maximize durability above all other considerations. The sidewalks don’t have a lot of flex and I think you’ll find them a bit harsher than your Gravelkings. I haven’t ridden Marathons in years, but I can say that mine were super durable. Personally. I would go for something that rolls a little better like Ultradynamico Cava. I had a pair on a bike I ended up seeking and I absolutely loved them. I had the JFF casing, but you can get a Robust casing that’s a bit more durable. 

--
Sent from Canary

--

[Ian A]

I've running 700x 38 Schwalbe Almotion on my touring bike. They have been a good compromise of grip, puncture resistance and rolling resistance.  They look even better in 700x50, which another cyclist I met was using. He had a high opinion of the tires as well.

IanA

[Jeffery S]

I have some 700 x 50mm Soma Cazaderos that are excellent. The raised center tread is good for pavement and the rest works well on dry trails/fire roads. Right now they measure 46mm on mavic A719s, 40psi.

They’re kind of pricey but have lasted several years. Two flats that I can think of. One from a chunk of glass and the second was a gnarly goat head. Hopefully I don’t jinx myself.

This fall I’m planning to put some fenders on and try the 42mm version.

[jamin orrall]

I have ridden both the cazaderos and graveling sk tires in their largest sizes.  From my experience the cazaderos are much more supple and are a joy to ride on and off road.

[Tonita zone callum]

Yeah

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b3a5188c-8562-4dab-8d19-001cbaf6ebean%40googlegroups.com.

[Will Boericke]

Cazaderos would be far from my #1 choice for mainly pavement riding, though.

W

[Patrick Moore]

Will: Please elaborate. Rolling resistance, or handling? I’ve contemplated Cazaderos for combined dirt/pavement riding based on others’ opinions, and my brother — quite experienced — likes them.

Thanks.

Patrick Moore, whose Goldilocks allrounder tire would be the RH Oracle Ridge, only, it doesn’t set up tubeless very well. Mean to try TPU tubes and Orange Seal; perhaps that combo will be the Goldilocks solution for the otherwise Goldilocks OR.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04d7b6a5-432c-45d2-9d3c-cb0756a4b70en%40googlegroups.com.

[Will Boericke]

Oh, mostly because they're gratuitously knobby for a pavement tire.  I don't have many miles on them so I can't comment on their suppleness - perhaps they're sublimely fast-rolling.  I find it hard to imagine they'd be better than a GK slick.  Or RH, if budget permits.  Or Schwalbe G-One.  Really plenty of tires I'd choose above Cazaderos, partially because they're kind of rare and I could get a number of other tires more cheaply.

Will

[Garth]

For the heeluvit I just got some Marathon Racers in 38-40mm size as they were cheap and brand new from a seller on ebay. I'll try 'em on the Bombadil in place of the cushy but tank like Big Bens. I've been wanting to try a svelter road tire once again with it. The 38mm Vittoria Hypers were fast way back when, while they lasted that is, which wasn't long. Less than 500 miles I'd guess. I swear I could see the rubber wear off as I went along.  Then Poof ! Time for another one ..... Ahahahahahaa ! :-)  I thought about replacing the wheels, but nah, the frame is still a tank and a hundred grams lighter wheels won't make as much a difference as the tires themselves.

I get great use out the 35mm Racers @40-45 PSI on my Franklin road bike. They're a good balance for me between ride, weight, mileage, puncture resistance, cost and quality, which is very good.