Cross-chaining the 11 speed Ultegra R8000 drivetrain?

[Patrick Moore]

I’ve finally got back on the bike after about a month’s layoff over the last 6 weeks thanks to 3 bouts of this season’s particularly nasty flu, doing a couple of 10-12 mile rides yesterday and today. I meant to take things very easy, so I rode my  2 derailleur bikes, a dirt road ride on the Matthews yesterday and an errand detour on the Roadeo just now.*

I was annoyed by the19-21 t jump on the Roadeo's 14-32 11 sp cassette — 72 to 65, just a few  gear inches too much, enough to make me bog in the 72 or flail in the 65. So before today’s ride I removed the 25 from the 14-32 and inserted an Ali Express 11-speed 20. Now it’s 76-72-68-65. Much better; the bigger jumps in the 2 or 3 bottom gears are far less troublesome.

Others have said that with modern flexible chains there is no danger in using the 50x32 — even tho’ the chain seems to be angled at 45*. There’s no rattling, and I can spin the crank backward and the chain does not derail. The Roadeo has 44-45 cm stays.

Is using the 50 in all 11 cogs adviseable, given modern flexible chains and the long stays?

[* The reason that riding a many-cog derailleur drivetrain is so much easier than a fixed or 3 speed drivetrain is not merely the lower hill gears; even more, IME, it’s very close ratios in the cruising range that let you choose just the right gear when you turn into a headwind or start up an incline — you’re not, or at least, I’m not having to push harder than is most efficient use of energy in a higher gear, because the next lower option is too low for comfort.]

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Patrick Moore]

Another question: when I installed the new 20 t cog (proper 11 speed “middle” cog, tho’ from Ali Express), that pushed the 27 from #9 to #10 place. When I adjust the RD to tack smoothly on the 20 to cog, the drivetrain works smoothly on all 10 other cogs, including the 32, but it rattles dreadfully in the displaced 27. I’ve futzed with the cable adjustment barrel and things remain, choose the 20 or the 27. Again, with the chain tracking on the 20, it tracks fine on all the other 9 cogs from 14 to 32, except that penultimate 27.

Is there any way to get the chain to play nice with all cogs?

[Steve]

"Is there any way to get the chain to play nice with all cogs?"

Patrick,  not attempting to be glib - but the obvious solution is friction.  Over the past 5 or so years I've migrated all of my bikes to friction. It eliminates so many niggling little tuning problems and permits all sorts of drivetrain component  combinations that would otherwise be unworkable. 

Steve in AVL

P.S.  I recently mentioned friction shifting to my millennial aged son-in-law - he asked "What's that?

[Patrick Moore]

This is for the Roadeo, for which I’ll leave the original group intact (well, already violated it with swapping cassettes and cogs within cassettes) at least until I put about 800 more miles on it (at about 180 now; it’s not a “main” bike). So I’d like to fix the grumbling on that one 27 t cog.

I’ve thought that, eventually, esp if it becomes a “main bike” — and I’m not getting younger and fixed gears aren’t getting easier to pedal — I’d rebuild it with more sympathetic parts: silver, friction bar end shifters, good single pivot cold forged calipers (the 539s are nothing to shout about), RH Maes Parallel; OTOH, I invested a really stupid amount on 2 crabon fibre bottle cages to match the R8000 group — looking back, that was just weird.

So, for the nonce, I’ll be grateful for suggestions.

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[Steve]

A sticky wicket indeed!  Hmm.... when on the 27t cog is the chain threatening to shift up to the next one, or back down?  I have to think the new cog may be either a bit wider or narrower than the native Shimano 11 speed cogs, pushing the cogs above it slightly out of spec with the 27 winding up as the fall guy (so to speak) 

[Steve]

Patrick, regarding your original question - cross chaining an 11 speed 2x drivetrain.  

I can only offer my untested opinion - which may not be worth the pixel space to display it  : ) 

 Assuming the chainline falls right on the #6 cog, if the big ring/big cog combo feels smooth and you're willing to tolerate potentially accelerated tooth and chain wear, I wouldn't worry about it. That unfounded advice also applies even if the chainline is not spot on. If you prefer to err on the side of minimizing drivetrain wear, use the FD.

[Patrick Moore]

I’ve not used my caliper to gauge the width versus the stock cogs; it does “feel” a wee bit wider and that may well be the problem. OTOH, the chain tracks very nicely on the inner 32 (… 20-23-27-32) …?     

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Steve, that coincides with my own inclination, to use the 50 with the outermost 9 cogs (98" down to 59”) and cross over to the 34 for the largest 7 cogs (52” down to 29”. Or, toss the 14 and bring everything closer to the dropout with a 15-32, adding in a 25 and a 28 for 23-25-28-32; I can live with a 91” high gear. Or gear it 14-16 …. 32.

I’m inclined to the first option, though, especially since the indexed front shifting is so seamless. 

If I rebuild it for friction, I’ll use a 1X11 with bailout granny, say 30 t for steep hills only.

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[Patrick Moore]

For the record, I replaced the grumbly 27 t cog with another one, apparently identical, and while this second one does not track as smoothly and quietly as the 32 behind it or the 23 in front of it, it tracks much more quietly and, I think — I need to ride it up a hill — quietly enough for occasional hill climbing use.

Again, background, I installed a 14-32 11-speed and disliking the 19-21 jump added a 20 in between them and removed something or other up on the high inside, and installed a 27, so now the cassette goes: 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-27-32. The 27s come from this 14-32 and a sister 14-30 that I ordered at the same time, (I think) but they were originally in the # 9 position, I think, instead of the #10 position for the 27s in question.

Man, I do prefer friction; if the chain grumbles on a cog, just nudge the shifter a bit. On my mostly firm dirt ride this afternoon did the entire ride between the 44X17, 44X18 and the 44X19 (flat), 74” and 70” pavement, and 66 dirt, and I noticed that the shift from the 18 to the 19 takes just a smidgen (tech term) of pull while that from the 17 to the 18 takes a lot more; so you have to learn your cogsets. But it’s far better than hearing the chain grumble or having to futz with the cable adjuster.

On Sat, Jan 17, 2026 at 9:27 PM Steve <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

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