CFIG's with Silver Badges

[Jeffrey Banks]

Hi all,

To be a US glider instructor there is no requirement for cross country qualification.

I wonder how many of our selfless volunteer CFIG's do not have a Silver Badge and would like to make that achievement?

Would that be a good goal for next year?  Put in on the list.

Sincerely

Jeff Banks

[Ryszard Krolikowski]

Jeff,

Many countries require  triangle 300km or 4 pts zigzag  500km for instructor licence.

Point is, any instructor should be capable to lead the club operations. 

He needs some expierience before letting kids go into bad weather or deadly terrain.

General thinking is : FAA sailplane instructor is most competent person on the field.

Reality in US is that only Master Instructors can fill those shoes.

Some states like UK have 3 tiers for instructor, I think ground school, pattern school,  and cross-country school. 

Almost 80% of US FAA certified instructors are good only with ground and pattern, because FAA mandates only basics.

This creates huge danger for them( im certified, OMG Im so good,   but clueless), and for club less experienced cross country pilots , mostly new pilots with a sick sometimes advice. 

Ryszard

--
Thanks for using RAS_Prime!
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/8202beda-7def-4f2c-8b6e-558daaaa1365n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jeffrey N Banks]

Ryszard,

Thanks

I have not heard the term Master Instructor in the US.  Is that a qualification from the SSA?

Sincerely

Jeff Banks

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/CALDP%2BBcnpagRNPF4aNK25P-F1Lxh2kcu1u69FxgYuMyqtg%2BrUQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Glenn Betzoldt]

Yes SSA. Shawn Knickerbockers set up the program.

[Cliff Hilty]

Rysard, mentioned 80% do not have xc experience. I dont think that is true.  Of all of the instructors that I have met in my 35 years of flying its more like 80% DO have the experience of at least silver badge equivelent. It would be interesting to see the actual numbers though. 

Cliff CFIG with 1000k diplome 😉

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/32dc8320-b870-40f5-a91c-8521cba912abn%40googlegroups.com.

[Charles Mampe]

Jeff, no US FAA XC requirement for a CFIG.

In our club of about 80 members, we have 5 current or lapsed CFIG's.

Active

1- 3 diamond, 1000K, Nationals winner, many times regional winner, WGC pilot.

1- silver C, couple nationals, a number of regionals (won once).

1- some XC, not sure if silver C earned yet.

Inactive

1- gold C, 2 diamonds (distance), multiple nationals and regionals.

1- silver C? and XC miles

Our club may be an outlier, not sure. I do know of sites where even having a CFIG that goes XC can be rare.

[Rex Mayes]

Yikes Jeff!

Don’t get me started!

I am astonished that the system we have in the US actually works as well as it does.

There are certainly examples of terrible outcomes of poor instruction. 

Judging a “bad”, “good” or “Great” is absolutely subjective. 

When some one says that one is a good or great instructor, they are likely just saying “ I like / respect that person.. not really judging how the person actually is able to do a good job as an instructor.

I have met many pilots holding instruction priveleges that in my opinion should not be teaching people how to fly.

Very nice folks but do not really show me that they truly “get” aviation.

I can go on but….

See you got me started!

Rex

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 9, 2025, at 3:03 PM, Jeffrey N Banks <j...@mtaonline.net> wrote:

Ryszard,

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/204F4A99-1A01-43B8-A45D-EE793F01A5AF%40mtaonline.net.

[Rex Mayes]

I do have to say however I have seen more very good instructors who teach to high standards than I have “bad” instructors.

Rex

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/CAFuiY74oO9_YhEX-_Mc_va6OdtyhRcxAzEeLZ8ZNaWXv0yw8ag%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tony Smolder]

An instructor with ATP, CFi, CFIG asked if I would fly with him to teach him to thermal. We tried - he was 45 to 70 mph in a 30 degree 360. I Had to take the controls away to keep from getting sick. We encouraged him to stick to power 

Tony

Get Outlook for iOS

---

From: rasp...@googlegroups.com <rasp...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Rex Mayes <r...@williamssoaring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2025 5:22:05 PM
To: rasp...@googlegroups.com <rasp...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RAS_Prime] CFIG's with Silver Badges

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/C239B3D5-67C7-4A47-BA7B-0641A635DD4B%40williamssoaring.com.

[Jeffrey N Banks]

Rex,

You have a much larger sampling of what we have in the US. I love it when you stand on the soap box.

My point about Silver Badges for CFIG’s is a curiosity about our cross country training capabilities in the US.

The breaking of the tethering string from the home airport is something many aspiring glider pilots don’t do.

I think our CFIG’s might be key to that.  Many often don’t get their own cross country training.

There are some very talented mentors that are not CFIG’s and they could be tapped to do that.

As a cross country affectionato, I wonder if getting more CFIG’s to Silver (or better yet Gold) badge would be a solution to more cross country flying for all.

Sincerely

Jeff Banks

PS To get me started!   Lets talk about the silliness of Daylight Saving Time  : )

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/C239B3D5-67C7-4A47-BA7B-0641A635DD4B%40williamssoaring.com.

[Hank Nixon]

One does not have to be a regular XC pilot to train pilots to be safe and ready to progress to bigger things.

That said, it is quite valuable to have, in the instructor group, at least one experienced XC  pilot to help folks to move beyond local flight if they wish to.

We are already short of people willing to dedicate their time to growing the sport.

There are people who will progress to XC and ones that are happy flying locally.

There is plenty of room for both.

FWIW

UH 

[Bermuda High Soaring]

You don't have to have CFIGs to teach cross country to
pilots. Good cross country pilots are a must. It needs to be
organized. Task - research - weather - just like a contest.

We held cross country camps where top pilots shared their
knowledge and mentor a small group. Everyone shared,
everyone learned, everyone advanced.

That said, I did stand up at the breakfast at the SSA
convention (I forgot what breakfast) but the point of my
comment was; just what you are suggesting here Jeff; a
good instructor should have knowledge of cross country
and promote the SSA badge program.

The guys that help me out instructing are now flying for the
airlines, flying corporate and one moved to Panama, and
my last star instructor is about to get married, so I don't
have any steady instructors at the moment.

It is great to have people on board who are truly interested
in the sport and want to explore possibilities. That said, a
good instructor doesn't need to have cross country skills
to teach, just be a great instructor. The student can then
learn from others in the club that fly cross country on a
regular basis. Best to search out the ones that return to
the field, not the out landing fellows.... ;)

Jayne
Bermuda High Soaring

On 9 Sep 2025 at 20:23, Jeffrey N Banks wrote:

>
> Rex,
>
> You have a much larger sampling of what we have in the US. I love it when you stand on
> the soap box.
>
> My point about Silver Badges for CFIG´s is a curiosity about our cross country training
> capabilities in the US.
>
> The breaking of the tethering string from the home airport is something many aspiring
> glider pilots don´t do.
>
> I think our CFIG´s might be key to that. Many often don´t get their own cross country
> training.
>
> There are some very talented mentors that are not CFIG´s and they could be tapped to do
> that.
>

> As a cross countryaffectionato, I wonder if getting more CFIG´s to Silver (or better yet

> Gold) badge would be a solution to more cross country flying for all.
>
> Sincerely
> Jeff Banks
>
> PS To get me started! Lets talk about the silliness of Daylight Saving Time : )
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2025, at 2:22 PM, Rex Mayes
> <r...@williamssoaring.com> wrote:
>
> Yikes Jeff!
> Don´t get me started!
> I am astonished that the system we have in the US actually works as well as it does.
> There are certainly examples of terrible outcomes of poor instruction.
> Judging a "bad", "good" or "Great" is absolutely subjective.
> When some one says that one is a good or great instructor, they are likely just saying " I like / respect that
> person.. not really judging how the person actually is able to do a good job as an instructor.
> I have met many pilots holding instruction priveleges that in my opinion should not be teaching people
> how to fly.
> Very nice folks but do not really show me that they truly "get" aviation.

> I can go on but....

> See you got me started!
> Rex
> Sent from my iPhone
>

> On Sep 9, 2025, at 3:03PM, Jeffrey N Banks <

> torasprime+...@googlegroups.com .

> To view this discussion
> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/8202beda-7def-4f2c-8b6e-558daaaa1365n%40google
> groups.com.
>
>
> --

> Thanks for using RAS_Prime!
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

> torasprime+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion
> visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/CALDP%2BBcnpagRNPF4aNK25P-F1Lxh2kcu1u69Fx
> gYuMyqtg%2BrUQ%40mail.gmail.com .

>
>
> --
> Thanks for using RAS_Prime!
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

> torasprime+...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion
> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/204F4A99-1A01-43B8-A45D-EE793F01A5AF%40mtaon
> line.net.
>
> --

> Thanks for using RAS_Prime!
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

> torasprime+...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion
> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/C239B3D5-67C7-4A47-BA7B-0641A635DD4B%40willi

> amssoaring.com.

>
> --
> Thanks for using RAS_Prime!
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RAS_Prime" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
> rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com
> .
> To view this discussion visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/1C2A6CD0-3702-4EE3-BBB8-D0323EA37
> D64%40mtaonline.net
> .

[Charles Mampe]

Agreed on using XC pilots to help along those lower time people that want to go XC.

To help with this, "regular CFIG's" SHOULD (early in training) promote pattern planning and execution to a small zone without the altimeter. This is a skill that is needed for any landing away from the home field, even if it's the next airport. The seeming culture at some places is, "well, you got on the airport, we'll just pull it back to staging". Putting a glider down where you want, when you want, pretty much every time is a good skill to have.

One concern I have heard from new XC pilots is, "what if I can't make it back?". Well, if you get out of glide of home enough times, you won't make it back some of the times. No landing is perfectly safe, but most of the outcome is in your hands. Spot landing is part of that outcome.

My $0.02.

[Tango Eight]

What motivates new xc pilots is a club xc culture and experienced xc pilots willing to share and provide some guidance.  

It helps if the CFIs are xc pilots, but the main thing you need are xc pilots.  The silver badge doesn't really have anything to do with anything in 2025, it's a quaint anachronism.  

T8

[Gordon Wingate]

I had to think about this a bit. Of course, CFIGs without XC experience are perfectly capable of turning out pilots who can thermal and who are safe in situations where they may land out. We should acknowledge though that if the instructor has a reluctance to XC themself that attitude can be inadvertently transferred to new pilots. 

Any parent knows that kids don't just learn what they're taught, they also learn what they've caught. Students pickup on unspoken messages that landing out is an embarrassment, or that it is an inconvenience to themselves and whoever has to retrieve them. Or that you have to land on airports for aero-retrieves because the club glider trailers are questionable (another topic!). These may be unspoken beliefs but they are communicated nonetheless.

On the other hand, experienced XC pilots who lack a CFI cert may know the cross country skills exceptionally well but aren't necessarily trained in how people learn, how to introduce skills, or to temper the fire in a pilot whose ambition exceeds his experience. Many of these pilots also have much higher performance gliders than the club's Astir, and also often have engines and exceptional instrumentation. This is a much different situation than what the newer pilot will deal with. 

My opinion is that Ideally an instructor should make at least one flight every season in a club ship on a cross country that is at least one or two good thermals away from final glide.If you are reluctant to try it just imagine how daunting it is to a first timer. Then use your experience to teach from and to help the club develop a better XC transition culture, and fleet. FYI, I haven't done this in many years but it's now on my to-do list.

Or have your club hold an XC development camp and fly the task yourself in a Ka8! You rock, Marco!

Gordon Wingate

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/b9023927-67d0-4543-9d93-2bbe42443716n%40googlegroups.com.