Want to Help RUSA ??

[Dan Driscoll]

Fellow Randos,

It’s not too early to start recruiting potential new RUSA Board members, and nudging them to throw their name in the hat, for RUSA’s next election.

It’s imperative that we inject New Blood into the RUSA Board, for sustainability, and to allow time for them to be mentored up to speed and be our next generation of leaders.

The Old Guard has done a good, and worked hard. We need fresh ideas, on important issues, like increasing RUSA’s membership and growing the sport.

Thank you,
DanD

[Peaches]

Hello Randos,

As a new member myself, I find that the rule against having non-members join you on a perm ride is something that should be changed to promote new membership. I'm 'young' in terms of Randoneering average age, and none of my riding friends know about RUSA. Telling them about the rides and hows its done only goes so far, but being able to invite them on a ride to show them how awesome it is would be a way to bring them into the fold. Many have seemed interested when I have invited them to join me for a 'weekend long ride' but jumping through a rusa membership and then a perm permit with membership fees hurdle too high for them, especially needing to do it days in advance. There are several [non-rando] clubs around me and they have set up their group ride rule to include that one must be a member to  join the ride BUT you can join up to two rides as a guest before the hard requirement of membership comes into play. This allows members to bring a friend along (at their own risk). I also find this no non-members on perms rule a bit silly when I'm told all riders are their own personal rides.

Thanks,
Mark V

[Timothy Kelly]

My understanding is the reason behind the rule is RUSA insurance.

Populaires are a good way to get non-member friends to experience the fun of randonneuring. Another way I have recruited folks is by taking them on unofficial brevets. I do not mind not getting ride credit from RUSA if it means I can get my friends to see the joy of riding a 200 km ride. 

Tim

#12712

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[Noah Swartz]

But I wonder, why wouldn't a non-member be able to sign a waiver for a specific ride? Would that not solve the liability issue?

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[Rob Hawks]

An integral part of satisfying the stipulations of the coverage is that participants be members of the organization hosting the event, in this case Rusa. In short, the insurer requires it.

rob hawks 

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[lordm...@gmail.com]

Perms are not events, they are personal rides according to the rules. No one is organizing the ride, start time, or reporting but the riders themselves. There is no gear check, no person that needs to be called for a DNF or 'come save me' in case something happens. All controls are Open and completely dependent on the rider on their personal ride. The rider does not even have to follow the course.

I understand the requirement for all organized brevets and populaires requiring participants to be members. That makes sense. Punishing an upstanding RUSA member because a friend happens upon them during a perm and wants to ride with them does not make sense. Punishing an upstanding RUSA member who wants to have a friend join them for a ride, with the goal to have them join RUSA due to the ride itself, while showing them the ins and outs of the ride, does not make sense. My partner got me into RUSA, and got me in by pitching perms to me cause they knew I'd enjoy them. We almost had a friend join, too but the requirement of joining RUSA and the perm program was too high a bar for them for something they were skeptical of finding enjoyment in.

The waiver is explicit that I'm signing away all rights(mine and my family members who are not signing) to sue RUSA. Either the waiver is worthless, or RUSA has some gaps. Again, it's pretty clear in the rules that I'm on a "personal ride" and it happens on public roads following a publicly available route. Who is to say that a friendly face is not also on their own personal ride, on public roads, using a publicly available route that they had access to.

If this is purely an insurance thing, here are some poking questions:

1. I am a RUSA member, and I'm out on a ride on public roads. I fell and got injured. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
2. I am a RUSA member, and I'm out on a ride on a private road. I fell and got injured.  Does RUSA insurance come into play?
3. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did not declare nor sign a waiver. I fell and got injured.  Does this RUSA insurance come into play?  
4. Same scenarios as 1-3, but as a non-RUSA member.
5. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. I fell and got injured. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
6. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. A friend happened to be with me when I fell and got injured. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
7. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. A friend came on the ride with me. I fell and got injured. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
8. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. I find a friend out on a ride, and I witness them fall and injure themselves. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
9. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. A friend came on the ride with me, and I witnessed them fall and injure themselves. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
10. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. I come across a friend and we happen to crash into each other and cause injuries. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
11. I am a RUSA member, I'm out riding a publicly accessible RUSA perm route. I did declare and sign a waiver. A friend comes along for the ride and we happen to crash into each other and cause injuries. Does RUSA insurance come into play?
12. Same scenarios as 6-11, but the friend was a RUSA member. If I happened on them, they were not on the perm ride, but they may or may not be on an overlapping perm route that they declared and signed the waiver for. If they came on the ride with me, they declared and signed the waiver just as I did.

I would suspect that every answer would be "No, RUSA insurance does not come into play, but would help RUSA go to bat in court to prove that RUSA is not liable."

Truly, to me, it feels like gatekeeping.

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[lordm...@gmail.com]

As a final note, as I don't think I will join in on this thread anymore.

If the RUSA is making it a goal to get new blood into the org, to create a new guard to replace the old guard, the old guard must be on board with that goal.

I have been part of, and am still a member of, some aged organizations as they are going through the same transitions. Change is hard. It can seem really uncomfortable to long-time members who have poured countless years into the org to change in ways that they do not understand because the new generation thinks it is the correct way. Sometimes it is the correct way, other times it needs some iterations. When it comes to iterations, that is where everyone learns, and the old guard can mentor.

If the old guard is not on board with the idea of bringing in a new guard and having them bring the org into today's age to be attractive to new younger members, then all you will do is get some new members, frustrate them, and be left in the same place a few years later. "Been there, done that"

I'm not looking to jump into leadership right now for RUSA. I'm still feeling it out. I'm just answering a call for ideas, on what looks like an obscure Google group that is tangentially related to RUSA. I say that because finding this Google group was a chore. There is only a random post on the website from 2022 referencing this group, with no link to that post. Luckily, the post was indexed by Google's search engine, but only for specific search terms.

Thanks for reading and considering,
Mark

[Joshua Haley]

It's not gatekeeping. 

RUSA insurance literally comes into play whenever RUSA or its volunteers get sued.  And the big coverage isn't a judgment; it's the legal defense against the suit.  Even a frivolous lawsuit out of pocket can be many thousands of dollars.  Without insurance, the cost to defend would be borne by the volunteer/board member, which is how you end up with no volunteers and RUSA dies.  The insurance has imposed bureaucratic requirements on us that must be followed.  Step 1 of any insurance claim is producing every bookkeeping document to demonstrate that we are following the requirements in both the specific case and, likely, in general. If not, they might say, "You're on your own," and then we have to fight for coverage to be applied. 

This also isn't academic.  A few years ago, a surviving spouse sued RUSA, and the carrier at the time determined that we weren't following their rules, and thus, we weren't covered.  RUSA had to defend itself against a lawsuit and sue the prior carrier at the same time.  I'm not sure it's appreciated, but that was almost the death of RUSA, and it took some serious work by the board to secure a new liability policy after it. 

Is it a pain in the ass and an impediment to getting new folks in?  Absolutely!  The whole sign-up process sucks and is super painful. I think most folks don't remember how painful it is because they signed up so long ago, but having helped folks do it, it isn't good.   However, the more productive path is to explore ways to streamline the existing steps. If I were king for a day, signing up for RUSA would allow for the optional enrollment in the permanent program at the same time, creating the online account, and having automated creation so that the member number assignment is instantaneous.   And yes, I think we should make "first time guest" something we try for on the insurance side when we renew our policy, but please understand that renewal is both annual, and we don't have a ton of options.  Believe me, as an RBA, I want to have fun riding bikes and support folks doing just that, but sometimes there is some boring bureaucratic BS involved in running something as real as a 501c3 with board members and volunteers is unavoidable. 

My 2 cents as a not-so-new guy who wants more fresh blood.

Josh Haley

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[Dave Thompson]

As Rob mentioned, our insurance policy requires membership.   Taking out a membership requires acknowledging the waiver and then, registering for a ride - whether a perm or an event - requires signing a waiver. 

Our sport is quite a bit different than the normal club ride.  Most insurers do not understand our sport and won’t write a policy to cover us. Many clubs get their insurance through League of American Bicyclists or USA Cycling, neither of which will cover randonneuring. In the past, we have had trouble maintaining insurance coverage as a result. 

We changed insurers in 2020 and I worked extensively changing our reporting process to meet their requirements and tailoring the permanents program to satisfy their needs.  We ensure transparency for any incidents, reporting and working closely with their staff.   As a result, since 2020, annual renewals have been routine. Those who have been members prior to 2020 will remember “down” periods where we couldn’t sanction events or perms.  

All this means that a newbie needs to consider what they are doing before they embark on a 6 to 12 hour ride. We have been looking at ways to reduce the hurdle somewhat and shorten the lead time, but requiring membership and requiring that all those riding together be on a RUSA ride, won’t go away. 

Dave Thompson. 

From my iwdt

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[Phillip Stern]

I am in a 2 bike clubs (the Rippers and Charles River Wheelers) in addition to RUSA / New England Randonneuring. 

My clubs have insurance to protect organizers. My clubs allow non-members to join 2 rides per year to determine if they want to join the club. 

I would love to see RUSA do the same for Perms. The Rippers love to ride hilly centuries on the weekends. They would enjoy randonneuring events in the 200k to 300k range in particular. I sometimes invite club members to join me on a Perm but when I explain the membership and registration requirements they lose interest. They ask if they can just ride with me and I say no because I wouldn’t officially get credit for the ride.   

Context: I’m close to retirement. I’ve done a lot of RUSA rides over the last 10+ years and enjoyed them immensely. I’ve created several perms. 

On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 11:06 AM lordm...@gmail.com <lordm...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Dave Thompson]

The quick answer to all the poking questions is “yes”. In many of those situations the injured person might want to sue rusa. An enterprising lawyer will find a way to sue rusa and anyone else in sight whether or not there is a reasonable chance of success.  In a lawsuit we need our insurer and their lawyers to go to bat for us.  Defending a frivolous lawsuit on our own would quickly bankrupt us.  A waiver on its own doesn’t do anything. 

It’s not a matter of old guard or new. Having insurance is basic to our existence. 

Dave. 

From my iwdt

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[Josh Zielinski]

In an attempt to refocus this conversation I will say nothing of insurance (except that this is America, sorry).

I am also newer member who stumbled into RUSA completely on my own (I knew no one who was a member or even rando'd).

$40 membership and $5 events isn't exactly gatekeeping...  Many single day cycling events cost way more than a year's membership and lots of RUSA rides.  

Also, in terms of perms it's all open anyway before you join: in what felt like some serious Internet work I found permanents and rode parts or all of them before deciding it was fun and jumping in on actual brevets.  The local group is about an hr away for me but they have all been super encouraging and inclusive.  This is even unique when compared to other cycling sectors such as Weekend Ride clubs where you're either to fast or not fast enough or you just didn't buy your bike at the right shop...

As for growing the group:

Encourage local clubs to have lots of Populaires-200ks.  Have fun with them.  Stop and eat, exercise some fun route creativity, etc.  Have them on Sundays and other days of the week too.  This timeframe and schedule openess works well for people who are working full time and have family commitments.  They are also easier to talk curious friends into riding and seem like a nice gateway drug for those interested in going farther.

Overhaul the website.  It's contents are amazing but it's confusing.  I wish I had more suggestions here but I'm definitely not an expert: just a below average Internet user who likes bikes.

Work with popular but more grass roots bike companies and small magazines that seem to love randonneuring whether it's the traditional style of bikes or the idea of riding all day and night.  PBP '27 is around the corner and it seems like the event would drive interest in joining but gotta start the buzz early.  

Along those lines:  For me, my interest in the bikes led me the word Randonneur but you wouldn't believe how confusing it was to connect to RUSA and a local group.  Another group (also an hr away from me) seems to have events but I've never been able to easily find an updated schedule: only when someone else provides a homemade Google doc with all the local events.

Or, just wait around for more people to grow tired and worn down from distance trail running events and start looking for something "easier" who want to bike tour but don't have enough free time (me)... Jk. 

Good luck!  I am thankful for my limited RUSA experience and want to see it grow.

Josh Z

Oregon 

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[Bill Gobie]

Hi Mark,

As a new-this-year member, welcome!

You ask good questions which many new members raise. I hope from the responses about insurance you understand why RUSA operates the way it does.

I would encourage the board to negotiate some guest rider accomodation for Populaires. Populaires are supposed to be a way for new riders to sample randonneuring, so it seems natural to find a low-cost and low-hassle way for interested folks to participate. Populaires have a degree of supervision such as bike checks and organizers who can explain procedures that might mollify the insurer. Perhaps RUSA could cover the per-rider insurance fee. 

Permanents are a looser format. The lawsuit that shut down permanent riding and nearly killed RUSA concerned a permanent. So I could see it being more difficult to work out a guest rider arrangement for permanents.

Bill

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[Bill Bryant]

In addition to the insurance consideration to participating in RUSA rides, another concern is having non-members brought along to help a rider, even to keep them company on a long ride, and probably to help in a headwind too. This is “outside support” and this is not allowed in our sport. Though not common, we have seen it various times over the years, and sometimes it has helped some riders finish but not others. As I said, it doesn’t happen that often, but we do see it, and it is not fair to other riders.

But in the main, RUSA will not exist w/o our insurance coverage and they dictate the conditions we are following. FWIW, I’ve lobbied for some type of temporary or “welcome” membership to let new riders try our sport but thus far we’ve been unable to find a way to achieve that with our existing insurance and membership systems. And as Josh Z mentioned, with a $35/year membership fee, randonneuring isn’t exactly expensive compared to so many other types of bicycling events. (I just bought two bike tires the other day… ouch!)  But, my point is that the Board does wish we had some insurable way to let more riders try our sport but we seem bound tightly by our insurance constraints. It certainly isn’t a matter of “old versus young” thinking as another person on this string has said.

Bill Bryant

Santa Cruz Randonneurs

RUSA BoD

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[Bill Bryant]

Just one minor point, Bill G. The lawsuit was a result of mass-start event in TX, not a permanent.

Bill Bryant

From: randonn...@googlegroups.com <randonn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bill Gobie <gobie...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, September 11, 2025 at 9:19 AM
To: tho...@pobox.com <tho...@pobox.com>
Cc: lordm...@gmail.com <lordm...@gmail.com>, Rob Hawks <rob....@gmail.com>, Noah Swartz <swar...@gmail.com>, Timothy Kelly <timk...@timkelly.org>, Randonneurs USA <randonn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RUSA] Want to Help RUSA ??

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[Bill Gobie]

Bill Bryant, 

Thanks for the correction and I apologize for spreading misinformation. Since the immediate impact was to the Permanent program I thought the death occurred on a perm.

Bill G

[Dave Thompson]

For all who are part of this thread and anyone else reading - I would be very interested in chairing a "new ideas zoom" for all those interested!  It might be hard to find some common available times, so we could do this a couple of times and perhaps it might morph into an ongoing "thing".  As a board and with various committees, we have batted many ideas around that have changed the nature of our sport.  It was RUSA that introduced the idea of Electronic Proof of Passage with ACP (I initiated that conversation with ACP).  That came out of the prior-to-2020 RUSA perms program, Nigel Greene and Susan Otcenas being proponents, and then spurred on by covid!  The 2020 reintroduction and changes to the perms program was a major step forward, for anyone who remembers the prior program.  We suffered many months with an insurer who refused to cover perms.  New ideas are very welcome!

ps - I chuckle at the notion of being called "old guard".  Although I do admit that I started my real rando involvement in 200i9, I had the same difficulty finding and engaging with the sport as those of you newer to the sport.  

Dave.

[Dan Driscoll]

Josh,

Well said and thank you for your time typing.

An easier way to sign up for RUSA and the perm program in one step, not two different transactions, for possibly several years, on any date, not just a particular window of time, to save this frustration, would be a welcomed improvement to the process.  

As a fellow RBA, Not a single year goes by that I don’t have to help more than a few members and or call in the big dogs for even more help, with this process. It’s not a part of being a RUSA Volunteer and RBA that enjoy. 

Often there is a short fuse, as the rider would like to join in for a perm tomorrow, and no one want’s to deny them of that opportunity. 

DanD 

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[Dan Driscoll]

Thank you, Mark 

Looking at the large number of years many of the current RUSA Board members have served, I’m not sure that there is a desire to mentor in the next generation of leaders, which is un-sustainable. This and the lack of RUSA doing any advertising to make Randonneuring better known are RUSA’s current weak links. 

I would like to commend Rob Hawks, who spent a year mentoring a replacement and then retiring off the RUSA Board, a positive role model. 

DanD 

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[Andrew Nichols]

Was focused on an event when most of this conversation took place, but I'm certainly interested in a focused conversation.

I've raised related issues before. I get that insurance is a major factor, but there must be a way to more easily integrate brevet-like events with non RUSA orgs. Maybe that means having "ambassador" riders who forgo official perm credit, maybe it means something else.

There are so many more riders capable of the events/programs RUSA puts on -- what holds them back? 

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[Hamid Akbarian]

Hi,

For those who do not know me, I am the RBA of two regions, Northern Virginia & NE Florida. 

RBAs are the only people who can schedule any events in RUSA calendar, expect the perms. 

On a yearly basis, I offer many free events and I have no club membership all together (I am not alone on this, many other RBAs may do the same), why?

My main goal is to bring more new riders and promote Randonneuring, so IMHO, paying the RUSA membership

is not and should not be a big deal to try something that it may have a life time impact in someone. 

I also offer LRM events (1200km and longer). I encounter the insurance issue from the international riders perspective who they come to US to ride

one event so I do offer discount to international riders if the RUSA membership is a deal breaker but so far they all had no issue to sign up & pay. 

At one point, many years ago, anyone could ride ACP events without being a RUSA member and we all used to sign the waiver but

time has changed and our new insurance policy requires to be a RUSA member to sign the waiver. 

If you have friends/family who wish to try what is Randonneuring is all about, you can bring them to one of my regions and I pay for their RUSA membership but

there is only one condition, they have to volunteer in one of my 1200km events :-) next year I scheduled only 3 1200km events :-)

Keep Riding & Keep Smiling.

Hamid Akbarian - RBA