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Hans van den Toorn

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Sep 21, 2014, 8:02:19 AM9/21/14
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Hello Group,

Yesterday, when crossing The Solent by ferryboat from the Isle of Wight to Southampton, our bow as crossed by a giant containervessel.
It appeared to the be the APL Merlion of American President Lines.
To my surprise the vessel was registered in Singapore!
I always had the idea that American shipping companies operated their vessels under USA flag with American crews as this was required by law.
Am I wrong or was this something from the past?
Perhaps one of our American friends can enlighten me on this.
I sailed on containerships myself ( > 50.000 BRT) but they are dwarfed by this real huge baby
This is the above mentioned vessel (picture found on the internet)

​
73

Hans PA3ERE

Bougard Michel

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Sep 21, 2014, 8:56:29 AM9/21/14
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Dear Hans,

USA shipping companies where the first to use ships in those flag of convenience ship register for INTERNATIONAL trades, such as Liberia, Panama and now Marshall Islands.
The rule you stated in your message is only required by the Jones act for NATIONAL maritime cabotage trades, in particular only between US ports or places.

B.Rgds,
M.Bougard.
+

<photo_9632014_c.jpg>
​
73

Hans PA3ERE

Mike Zbrozek

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Sep 21, 2014, 11:46:12 AM9/21/14
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Hello All -
 
ReFlagging started a long time ago in the USA. I am not sure but I
think it started after WW1. If we didnt have the Jones Act there would be very few US Ships
at all. In fact the great John Mc Cain that ran for President years ago is a big advocate
of doing away with the Act. Also a lot of other Republicans in the Senate and Congress feel
the same. The late Jesse Helms from North Carolina hated the Jones Act.
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
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Hans van den Toorn

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Sep 21, 2014, 12:11:22 PM9/21/14
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So this means that the USA, in the case of international tensions, has to rely on a fleet of foreign flag ships with ''United Nations Crew'' as I always call ships with at least 10 different nationalities on board.
In my opinion that is a rather awkward situation.
In 1968 I did about 15 runs with jetfuel between Singapore and Vietnam on a Shell tanker and remember seeing a lot of US flagged general cargo vessels (Lykes Lines and Moore McCormack?)
Are those companies all gone in the meantime?

Hans PA3ERE





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Mike Zbrozek

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Sep 21, 2014, 1:19:03 PM9/21/14
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Hi Hans -
 
The US Govt has the largest claim to US ships that are under contract and
there are many ships that are under US Govt ownership.
Ships that are USNS have civil service crews. I also wonder
if we had a big war could the US Govt have enuff ships to carry cargo
in the war effort?
 
Lykes Lines is gone, and Moore Mccormack may only have 2 or 3 ships? I bet they are
gone as well. The US Merchant now is nothing more than a servant for the US Navy...
The US oil companies have a few ships under US Flag that carry oil from one US port
to another. I think there are less than 200 US  Flag ships that sail the ocean blue.
I would not be wise to be a kid in a US Maritime school nowadays....HI...
 
 
 
73
Mike K8XF
 

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Bougard Michel (Gmail)

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Sep 21, 2014, 2:50:59 PM9/21/14
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Hello Mike,

But all trade union members are in favor of it because it maintain the jobs of US seafarers under the USA flag alive !

73's,
Michel.
+

Dave Shirlaw

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Sep 21, 2014, 6:57:20 PM9/21/14
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APL was taken over years ago.

Mike Zbrozek

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Sep 21, 2014, 8:18:38 PM9/21/14
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Hello Michel,
 
I dont understand what U mean?
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 

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Aj Prasad

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Sep 21, 2014, 9:51:21 PM9/21/14
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APL was acquired by Neptune Orient Lines back in 1997 which is headquartered in Singapore, hence APL now flies Singapore Flag

Best Regards

Ajit
 Prasad

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Aj Prasad

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Sep 21, 2014, 10:15:01 PM9/21/14
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Howdy,

APL was acquired by Neptune Orient Lines of Singapore back in 1997 for $225 million, ie is how it flies Singapore flag on their Ships.

73
Aj

Hans van den Toorn

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Sep 22, 2014, 3:10:01 AM9/22/14
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Hello Aj,

Thanks for the info.

73

Hans PA3ERE



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Bougard Michel

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Sep 22, 2014, 3:48:23 AM9/22/14
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Dear Mike,

The Jones Act is still strongly supported by the Seafarers International Union of North America, member of the ITF Seafarers: Trade Unions, and in general by the Democrats.
Those against it are ultra liberals such as some members of the right wing of the Republicans.
Maintain, amending or abolishing the "Jones Act" and related regulations is a major political debate for the Congress.

B.Rgds,
Michel,
Retired R/O and still member of the ITF,
+

KB6YNO

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Sep 22, 2014, 9:15:17 AM9/22/14
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Never heard of an ultra liberal Repulican.

Sent from my iPhone
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Bougard Michel

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Sep 22, 2014, 9:30:14 AM9/22/14
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They are members of the most conservative republicans.

Without the Jones Act, there is no more U.S. flagged ships in the merchant marine.

Mike Zbrozek

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Sep 22, 2014, 9:40:00 AM9/22/14
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Hello Michel -
 
The people that are against the Jones Act are ultra conservative.
Not ultra Liberal.....tnx for your reply.
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
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D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Sep 22, 2014, 10:24:15 AM9/22/14
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Conservative Republiicans like we used to have Teddy Roosevelt, Abe
Lincoln. I don't know if they qualify for pro-union but the new
TeaParty certainly is and they support workers, and with the
association of Dr. Ben Carson, the retired neurosurgeon to whom
conservative, old-time Republican conservative blacks are flocking as
well as many of the TeaParty bunch.

Now if he runs for President maybe he will be smart enough to put back
radio officers on ships because he certainly knows that ship owners
have shown the bad example of unregulated capitalism too many times by
their greed and lack of prudence.

Titanic with too few lifeboats, modern ships without 500 kHz WT and a
radio officer - or two. (I dream, can't I?)

Very off topic, but the TeaParty gets bashed as being fringe,
anti-union, anti-worker, and racist when they are really the old
mainstream Republican party that freed the slaves, passed the civil
rights bills, and were pro worker.

Some of the "other" Republicans are more like the ship owners. Never
share with other people whose talents protect your enterprise and
don't invest in lifeboats, they're only used once, they think.

The Democrats are hopeless, they voted for ethanol knowing that it was
a lie, it makes more pollution than gasoline / petrol. Same with
electric cars - the pollution caused by making a battery with rare
earths we have to dig for is more pollution than using gasoline. I
won't get into how many of them enslave people by fostering government
dependence.

Follow the money!

73
DR

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Bougard Michel
<michel....@telenet.be> wrote:
> They are members of the most conservative republicans.
>
> Without the Jones Act, there is no more U.S. flagged ships in the merchant
> marine.
>
> Le 22 sept. 2014 à 15:13, KB6YNO a écrit :
>
> Never heard of an ultra liberal Repulican.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 22, 2014, at 12:48 AM, Bougard Michel <michel....@telenet.be>
> wrote:
>
>
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> --
> THIS IS THE "RADIO OFFICERS, &C" MAIL LIST - UNSUBSCRIBE AND OTHER SETTINGS
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Mike Zbrozek

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Sep 22, 2014, 10:45:54 AM9/22/14
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Hello Dave -

Ah Ha - and now we all know what you are David.
I enjoyed watching the latest Ken Burns 7 part 2 hrs per night show on PBS
about the
Roosevelts. I must say that I was shocked at some of the things TR Roosevelt
stood for. I wish we had Republicans like that today in Washington DC.
The Republicans that we have are not on the side of regular Americans.
I am not impressed by the tea-party bunch as well. Sorry to say that too
many Democrats are not pulling for the working class as well. I blame
the US public. Where are the marches regarding the loss of jobs to
offshoring, and a host
of other labor items as well. I remember watching old black and white news
reels from the 30's
regarding labors fight for justice and jobs. Now we have wimps as labor
leaders as well as
lazy workers that would not think of picking up a sign and marching. Why?
Because
too many ex workers just watch tv and get high on whatever.

I found out this morning that MSC has 110 ships. I am not sure if that
includes commercial vessels under charter, or just US Govt vessels
only. There are less than 200 US Flag ships on the high seas now,
so U can see that MSC is the biggest employer...a poor one at that.


73
Mike K8XF



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From: "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1...@arrl.net>
To: "Radio Officers &c" <radio-o...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, &c] US Registry (Jones Act for maritime
cabotage trade)


https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/radio-officers/CADO5Rbi5y-jYMe1-2-8%3DTTrsxbxik4YpLUpTGFAf8uLT__aPJg%40mail.gmail.com.
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k1...@comcast.net

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Sep 22, 2014, 4:22:10 PM9/22/14
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That is what Clinton was after he had to deal with a Republican House and Senate ......

Don't expect the same thing after November .... 


From: "KB6YNO" <kb6...@comcast.net>
To: "Officers, Radio" <radio-o...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:13:03 AM

D.J.J. Ring, Jr.

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Sep 22, 2014, 4:45:13 PM9/22/14
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Hello Mike,

Don't drink the Kool-Aid of the newspapers and others regarding the TeaParty Republicans - they are conservative, Constitutional, minimal federal government, local control by the people, and pro-union and worker.

Like everything else, there are some that deviate quite a bit from the average, but that is evened out by averaging.

A good place to find what they are all about is to subscribe to their tweets from the official TPPatriots group.:

Tea Party Patriots (TPPatriots) 
"Official Grassroots American Movement | Fiscal Responsibility | Constitutionally Limited Government | Free Markets"

My little Linux twitter client - awesome - it is ttytter, works in console.

Now if someone would only bring back the People's government power - the Grand Jury.  We used to be able to convene a Grand Jury by ourselves, but now the Grand Jury is totally in the hands of the lawyers, in this case the District Attorney - which means that government crimes and most other attorney crimes - especially the rampant fraud on the court and judicial corruption every day. Who gets hurt?  We do.  You cannot impair justice without hurting someone. Margaret Marshall our Supreme Judicial Court Chief Justice - the one that gave us the homosexual marriage we all voted AGAINST in defience of the people's vote held the year before had to resign because she had committed felonies by changing court room recordings of her cases.  Naughty but they voted them selves immunity - but NOT immunity from criminal acts.

Enjoy!

73
DR

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On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Mike Zbrozek <k8...@verizon.net> wrote:


Hello Dave -

Ah Ha - and now we all know what you are David.
I enjoyed watching the latest Ken Burns 7 part 2 hrs per night show on PBS about the
Roosevelts. I must say that I was shocked at some of the things TR Roosevelt
stood for. I wish we had Republicans like that today in Washington DC.
The Republicans that we have are not on the side of regular Americans.
I am not impressed by the tea-party bunch as well. Sorry to say that too
many Democrats are not pulling for the working class as well. I blame
the US public. Where are the marches regarding the loss of jobs to offshoring, and a host
of other labor items as well. I remember watching old black and white news reels from the 30's
regarding labors fight for justice and jobs. Now we have wimps as labor leaders as well as
lazy workers that would not think of picking up a sign and marching. Why? Because
too many ex workers just watch tv and get high on whatever.

I found out this morning that MSC has 110 ships. I am not sure if that
includes commercial vessels under charter, or just US Govt vessels
only. There are less than 200 US Flag ships on the high seas now,
so U can see that MSC is the biggest employer...a poor one at that.


73
Mike K8XF



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Walter Treftz

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Sep 22, 2014, 6:57:04 PM9/22/14
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Let's kill the political bullshit and get back to radio. If I wanted to hear about how good the
Republicans are I'd just listen to Rush
N4GL


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Mike Zbrozek

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Sep 22, 2014, 9:18:46 PM9/22/14
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HI Dave -
 
Tnx for your input. I shall investigate the Tea Party.
We better stop talking politics because it has made Walter Treftz upset.
I knew somebody would get upset. Even tho this is a quiet news group...HI...
 
73
Mike K8XF
 
 
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Hans van den Toorn

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Sep 23, 2014, 4:14:31 AM9/23/14
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Oh Oh .....Mea Culpa ...it's all my fault ....
I started it by asking about the Singapore registration of an American President Line vessel when returning from my trip to the Isle of Wight

By the way whenever you get a chance to have a look out there, Wight is a great little island with all kinds of interesting things to see/visit.


Among other things this is what I met during my hinkingtrip along the coast.
All that is left of Niton Radio/GNI, a small building with the 518 kHz Navtex transmitter.

The the lighthouse of St.Catherines Point.
Interesting: it got a direct hit on the boilerroom during WWII, killing three lighthouse personnel.
Also one of the  the big rotating lenses lost a chip of glass, however it is still in use today!



The Needles Battery with it's rocket test site museum.
http://www.theneedlesbattery.org.uk/rocket.php
I talked extensively to one of the former Electronic Instruments Engineers in the old control room.
On the picture the museum is to the right of the small HM Coast Guard building.

​

73

Hans PA3ERE

​



​






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