Solidarity Means Dismantling The System Everywhere (Progressive International)

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Jai Sen

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Jun 22, 2020, 2:54:56 PM6/22/20
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Monday, June 22, 2020

Viruses in movement…, Solidarity in movement…, Resistance in movement…

[Aside from the content of this statement, as far as I know – though I might have missed things - this is the first public Statement that the recently-founded ‘Progressive International’ has made, on anything….  So this is worth noting by itself.

[It ‘starts’ by making a not extraordinary but still useful statement :

Protest movements around the world are rising up and reaching out. In the streets of Santiago, young Chileans demonstrated against widespread conditions of poverty, precarity, and police brutality. Across India, millions of activists stood up to the racism and anti-Muslim violence of the Modi government. And in Lebanon, protestors have defied lockdown to demand their basic rights to food, water, healthcare, and education.

It is in these planetary conditions that protests have erupted across the United States. And yet, there is something exceptional about these protests — if only that they expose a deep fissure in the doctrine of ‘American exceptionalism.’… [emphasis given]

[It then goes on to say :

Our challenge, now as always, is to organize: to turn these spontaneous expressions of solidarity into an enduring international movement to dismantle the institutions of racist state violence and investigate the human rights abuses by US police departments, its prison system, and its military, in particular.

That is why we founded the Progressive International: to make solidarity more than a slogan. Marches in cities like Auckland and Amsterdam have sent an important signal to the US government that the world is watching. But bearing witness is not enough. Our task is to translate the sentiment of solidarity into concrete actions that advance a shared vision of racial and economic justice.  [emphases given]

[It’s not clear though, who it is signalling by the ‘our’ here (as in ‘Our task’) – that of all of ‘us’, or that of the Progressive International… If the latter, then it would seem to be seeking to take the mantle of ‘leadership’.  This will sort of define its politics.  Let’s see what they next do.  It will be interesting to see.

[It’s also not just ‘interesting’ but a little extraordinary though (and vaguely quaint), to see a self-styled movement organisation then wear all (or most) of its badges in public, with detailed blurbs on all the notables who are on its Council who have signed on to this statement.  Most movements go the other way, and are almost opaque about such matters; here, it’s not just a list (of people who are, by and large, quite well known) but with their details…  Interesting politics !  (And worth ‘reading’ and thinking about.) :

Solidarity Means Dismantling The System Everywhere

Progressive International

https://popularresistance.org/solidarity-means-dismantling-the-system-everywhere/


PI Council members on the uprising in the United States and around the world.

A new solidarity movement is rising. From Los Angeles to Sao Paulo, Minneapolis to London, “Black Lives Matter” is a cry and a demand heard around the world.

The message of this movement is powerfully simple: stop killing black people — in their homes, on the streets, and traveling across the sea to safer shores. Yet in its simplicity, it contains the seed of a radical transformation in our planetary system, raging against a machine of racist dispossession to make room for collective and communal liberation everywhere.

The last decade has witnessed a sharp turn in two terrifying directions: turning in and cracking down. A new cohort of authoritarians has shunned international cooperation in a retreat to the nation-state and its ancient myths of blood and soil. A new set of surveillance technologies has turned us in further, tightening and militarizing state control over our communities. And the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic has forced us further into locked-down isolation, introducing — in some cases — the threat of a permanent state of exception and the martial law attached to it.

Protest movements around the world are rising up and reaching out. In the streets of Santiago, young Chileans demonstrated against widespread conditions of poverty, precarity, and police brutality. Across India, millions of activists stood up to the racism and anti-Muslim violence of the Modi government. And in Lebanon, protestors have defied lockdown to demand their basic rights to food, water, healthcare, and education.

It is in these planetary conditions that protests have erupted across the United States. And yet, there is something exceptional about these protests — if only that they expose a deep fissure in the doctrine of ‘American exceptionalism.’ We cannot ignore the particular hypocrisy of the hegemon, which brags to the world of its ‘missions accomplished’ and freedoms granted while oppressing its black, brown, and native populations at home. And we should not overlook the opening these protests have created to break with this hegemonic power and advance toward a decolonized and multipolar world.

An opening is an opening — not an assurance. The scenes that have emerged from these international protests are those of a system at breaking point. But there is no guarantee in which direction it will break. It would be our grave error to underestimate the forces of reaction and their capacity to leverage the present opportunity to advance their repressive vision of ‘LAW & ORDER!’, as President Trump so succinctly tweeted.

Our challenge, now as always, is to organize: to turn these spontaneous expressions of solidarity into an enduring international movement to dismantle the institutions of racist state violence and investigate the human rights abuses by US police departments, its prison system, and its military, in particular.

That is why we founded the Progressive International: to make solidarity more than a slogan. Marches in cities like Auckland and Amsterdam have sent an important signal to the US government that the world is watching. But bearing witness is not enough. Our task is to translate the sentiment of solidarity into concrete actions that advance a shared vision of racial and economic justice.

That means learning from each other’s struggles against state violence, as in the case of the Lebanese activists who compiled a toolkit for protestors across the US. That means providing resources, where possible, to support the victims of police violence and their families. And it means identifying our own respective roles in this planetary system —wherever we may live — and delivering justice in our own communities.

Not all solidarities are the same. Far too often, expressions of outrage at what is happening ‘over there’ act as cover to ignore, dismiss, or otherwise minimize the ritual violence that happens right here. Europeans marching to defund the Minneapolis police might demand that their own governments defund Frontex, the EU border authority responsible for illegal detentions and deportations across the Mediterranean.

The same holds true in the opposite direction. The expansion of the US empire through the unlimited funding of its military-industrial complex has boomeranged back home, arming local police forces with the same equipment that the US has deployed in its endless wars overseas. If the protests in the United States are to give rise to a new sense of solidarity among its citizens, then it must extend to all populations that have suffered US imperial aggression and sustained occupation — especially those native populations on whose dispossession the nation itself was founded.

The infrastructure of racist policing is already international. US law enforcement agencies are trained by the Israeli military. US arms producers supply police forces across Brazil. US corporations equip the Indian government with surveillance technology. And US methods of stop-and-frisk in minority neighbourhoods have been exported around the world.

The task of our Progressive International is take stock of this international infrastructure — to listen to activists and organizers who have dedicated their lives to this fight — and to work with them to dismantle it: brick by brick, dollar by dollar, police department by police department.


List of signatories:

Noam Chomsky is considered the founder of modern linguistics. He has received numerous awards, including the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal and the Ben Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science. Chomsky joined the UA in fall 2017, coming from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he worked since 1955 and was Institute Professor, later Institute Professor emeritus.

Hilda Heine is Senator for Aur Atoll, Republic of the Marshall Islands. She served as President of the RMI from 2016 to 2020, and the Minister of Education before that. As RMI President, Heine took the issue of climate change, an existential threat for the peoples of the Marshall Islands and others in similar situations, to the international stage to share the story and to increase others’ awareness of RMI and the difficulties it faces due to climate change.

Ece Temelkuran is one of Turkey’s best- known novelists and political commentators, appearing in the Guardian, New York Times, New Statesman, and Der Spiegel. Her recent novel Women Who Blow on Knots won the 2017 Edinburgh International Book Festival First Book Award. She is the recipient of the PEN Translate Award, the New Ambassador of Europe Prize, and “Honorary Citizenship” from the city of Palermo for her work on behalf of oppressed voices.

Gael García Bernal is an actor. He began performing in stage productions with his parents in Mexico, and later studied at the Central School for Speech and Drama in London. He is a founder and the president of Ambulante, an itinerant not-for-profit documentary film festival promoting documentaries within Mexico and abroad. He has recently opened his new production company, La Corriente del Golfo, together with Diego Luna.

Áurea Carolina is a federal deputy for Minas Gerais state (BR), affiliated with the Socialism and Liberty Party (PSOL). Áurea is part of the Muitas municipalist movement, of #partidA (an informal party composed dedicated to electing women into office), and of the Ocupa Política network (devoted to boosting the occupation of the institutional politics by progressive activists). Together with Andréia de Jesus, Bella Gonçalves, and Cida Falabella, she takes part in the “Gabinetona”, a forum where four parliamentary mandates work collectively.

Celso Amorim is the longest serving foreign minister of Brazil to date (1993-1994 and 2003-2010). He also served as Minister of Defense (2011-2014). Amorim remains active in academic life and as a public figure, having written a number of books and articles on matters ranging from foreign policy to culture.

Renata Ávila is an international human rights lawyer. She is a 2020 Stanford Race and Technology Fellow at the Center for Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity. She is a Board member for Creative Commons, the Common Action Forum, Cities for Digital Rights, Article 19 Mexico & Central America, and a Global Trustee of Digital Future Society. She also serves as a member of the Coordinating Collective of DiEM25.

Srećko Horvat is a philosopher. He has been active in various movements for the past two decades. He co-founded the Subversive Festival in Zagreb and, together with Yanis Varoufakis, founded DiEM25. He published more than a dozen books translated into 15 languages, most recentlyPoetry from the Future,Subversion!,The Radicality of LoveandWhat Does Europe Want?.

Scott Ludlam is a writer, activist and former Australian Greens Senator. He served in Parliament from 2008 – 2017, and as Co-Deputy Leader of his party from 2015 – 2017. Currently working as a freelance researcher and troublemaker, while writing occasional pieces for Meanjin, the Monthly, Junkee and the Guardian.

Carola Rackete studied nautical science in Elsfleth and conservation management in Ormskirk, England. She has mainly been working on polar research vessels and spent eight seasons in the Antarctic. Since 2016, she has been volunteering on NGO ships and aircraft in the central Mediterranean and, as captain of the SEA-WATCH 3, was arrested in 2019 for entering an Italian port to safeguard a group of rescued refugees.

Yanis Varoufakis is a member of the Hellenic Parliament and the Secretary-General of MeRA25. He is the co-founder of DiEM25, and the former finance minister of Greece. He is the author of several books, including Adults in the Room and And The Weak Suffer What They Must?.

John McDonnell is a Member of Parliament for Hayes and Harlington. From 2015 to 2020, he served as Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer under party leader Jeremy Corbyn.

Andres Arauz is a former Minister of Knowledge of Ecuador and a former Central Bank General Director. He is a founding member of the Dollarization Observatory and a former board member of the nascent Bank of the South. He is currently based in Mexico City as a Doctoral Fellow at the National Autonomous University of Mexico, UNAM.

Alicia Castro is political and union activist. She was the General Secretary of the Union of Aeronavegantes, the founder of the Argentine Workers Movement (MTA), and a member of the ITF Council. She served as the Argentine ambassador to the United Kingdom from 2012 to 2016. Before that, she served in ambassadorial posts in Venezuela and as the National Deputy for the Province of Buenos Aires.

David Adler is the General Coordinator of the Progressive International.

Aruna Roy is a Founder-Member, Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sanghathan (MKSS), National Campaign to People’s Right to Information (NCPRI), and the School for Democracy (SFD). She was with the IAS from 1968-1975. In 1975 she came to Ajmer District, Rajasthan to work with the SWRC and the rural poor. In 1987 she moved to live with the poor in a village called Devdungri, Rajsamand District in Rajasthan. In 1990 she was part of the group that set up the MKSS. She has worked for accessing constitutional rights for the poor – Right to Information, Employment, Food Security etc. She was a member of the National Advisory Council (NAC) from 2004-06 and 2010-13. She is President of the National Federation of Indian Women (NFIW).

Nikhil Dey is a leading Indian social activist and a co-founder of the Mazdoor Kisan Shakti Sangathan (MKSS). MKSS is a People’s Organisation and part of the growing Non-party political process in India. The MKSS works with workers and peasants in the villages of Central Rajasthan to strengthen participatory democratic processes, so that ordinary citizens could live their lives with dignity and justice.

Ertuğrul Kürkçü is the current Honorary President of the Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP) and Honorary Associate of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE). He was the co-chair of the HDP in 2013-14 and the member of parliament for three successive terms between 2011-2018. He spent 14 years as a prisoner between 1972-1986 for his political activism in Turkey, after which he helped found the Freedom and Solidarity Party (ÖDP). After its disintegration, he joined the united block of ‘Labor, Democracy and Freedom’ in 2011 what successfully transformed into the HDP.

Nick Estes is a citizen of the Lower Brule Sioux Tribe. He is an Assistant Professor in the American Studies Department at the University of New Mexico. In 2014, he co- founded The Red Nation, an Indigenous resistance organization. For 2017-2018, Estes was the American Democracy Fellow at the Charles Warren Center for Studies in American History at Harvard University. Estes is a member of the Oak Lake Writers Society, a network of Indigenous writers committed to defend and advance Oceti Sakowin (Dakota, Nakota, and Lakota) sovereignty, cultures, and histories.

Paola Vega is a Costa Rican congresswoman. She is the chair of the Environmental Committee and a member of the Economic and Women’s Committees. Her main goals in environmental matters are to change plastic consumption, pass a new and modern water law, ban gas and oil exploration and exploitation, evolve to sustainable fishing practices, and to promote green businesses and circular economies.

Elizabeth Gómez Alcorta is the Minister of Women, Genders and Diversity of Argentina. Previously, she practiced law from more than twenty years, representing victims of state terrorism and political prisoners. She is also Professor at the University of Buenos Aires, where she teaches criminal law. She has published numerous articles on criminal law, human rights law and gender. She holds a law degree from the University of Buenos Aires and has completed postgraduate studies in law, sociology and political sciences.

Alvaro Garcia-Linera is a Bolivian politician from Cochabamba. He led the indigenist Tupac Katari Guerrilla Army rebel group during the early 1990s, and he was imprisoned from 1992 to 1997. In 2005, he was elected Vice President of Bolivia, serving until his resignation in November 2019.

Rafael Correa is former Constitutional President of the Republic of Ecuador, 2007- 2017, and Chairman of the Eloy Alfaro Political and Economic Thought Institute (IPPE). Rafael holds a Ph.D. and MSc. in Economics from University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and a MA in Economics from the Catholic University of Louvain- la-Neuve, Belgium. He obtained his first economics degree from the Catholic University of Santiago de Guayaquil, Guayaquil, Ecuador.


____________________________

Jai Sen

Independent researcher, editor; Senior Fellow at the School of International Development and Globalisation Studies at the University of Ottawa

jai...@cacim.net

Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on unceded and unsurrendered Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900) 

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Ashish Kothari

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Jun 23, 2020, 3:33:25 AM6/23/20
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thanks, Jai, for posting this, and for your questions prefacing the post.

while every call for bringing together 'progressive' forces around the world together is prima facie to be welcomed, it also bears scrutiny w.r.t. the track record of the people who are issuing the call?

having read the statement below, as also looked at the website of the Progressive International, I do not find clarity on a number of issues, including the nature of democracy (or governance) they espouse, or the nature of economy. 'Dismantling the system' is a nice slogan, but what system? I ask this especially because while some of the signatories are well-known for their commitment to deep, radical democracy and an ecologically and socially embedded economy, others have a track record that does not inspire confidence. At least two have been heads or deputy heads of state, and while in so-called 'revolutionary' parties leading their countries they were explicitly against American imperialism and hegemony (most welcome), their internal politics and handling of hte economy was not particularly oriented to 'dismantling the system'. Did they move at all towards defunding or dismantle the police, "department by department'? did they significantly reduce the centralised power of the nation-state and enable much greater decision-making by local communities? did they move substantially away from extractivist economies, placing much more trust in the economic wisdom and practices of communities (while helping them as necessary)? A few years back I was in a community in Ecuador, and the local mayor and other residents were telling us how Correa's approach to them was not necessarily any different from previous (right-wing) govts ... in fact that some progressive moves like embedding educational institutions in local languages and cultures and making them much less impositional from above, were reversed, as were moves towards agroecology (attached an article on this what we wrote after the visit). And enormously committed groups like Accion Ecologica were sought to be shut down because they protested against Correa's extractivist approach, supporting indigenous peoples who were impacted. In Bolivia, an indigenous president was not necessarily v. favourable to the agency and needs of many of the country's Amazonian indigenous peoples, as we heard from many of the area's peoples. Extractivism of various kinds continues apace. The 'rights of nature' or 'mother earth' approaches that were enshrined in their constitution or in law were repeatedly ignored ... Alberto here, instrumental in moving the Ecuadorian constitution to recognise such rights and subsequently in Correa's govt briefly, resigned in protest, and can add more.

now out of power, its easy to talk of 'dismantling the system', but would they do it if they took over the govt again in any of these countries? or would they say 'in the current international capitalist system', we can't do it, so we have to retain centralised power, for the greater good of our people ... perhaps there is some merit in this argument, but it is not at all clear what stopped these people, when in power for a long enough period, from moving towards much greater economic democracy with ecological sensitivity, or deeper empowerment at the level of communities so that they could be more self-reliant, and be able to strongly resist hegemonic forces from above (right wing or orthodox left wing).

Just to be clear, I'd much prefer a leftwing govt than a rightwing one (esp. for welfare schemes, to safeguard basic rights against fascist forces, to sustain 'public sector' in crucial aspects of economy/social services etc) ... but on some matters I am not convinced that there is so much of a difference, if the leftwing is of the orthodox, 'hard party line' variety. Perhaps the hope is that the more radical elements in PI, including some named below, can enable some re-orientation towards such radical progressive approaches that truly dismantle the system ... including recognising that progressive forces are not only in the 'left' but in many other kinds of movements, as I'd tried to mention in my recent article 'Lives Matter' that i'd posted last week.

(my post wont go on some of the lists yours has gone on, but I'm adding a couple of other lists that have people who may find this discussion of interest).

thanks,

ashish


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Kalpavriksh
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908 Deccan Gymkhana
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Tel: 91-20-25654239; 91-20-25675450
http://kalpavriksh.org
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Twitter: @chikikothari 

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Nabon article, as published REDWeb, 16.12.2017.pdf

Jai Sen

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Jun 24, 2020, 11:04:10 AM6/24/20
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Wednesday, June 24, 2020

 

Thanks Ashish, for this response to my post, and for these thoughtful comments.  Frankly, I agree with everything that you have said here, and so thank you for pointing all this out, and in some detail.  I think it’s extremely important that we all ask these kinds of questions, and in public, and all the more given the ‘pedigree’ that the Progressive International has pulled together, with many people who belong to our own communities from across the world (or who we have heard of, because of the circles we move in and the interests and values we have – and which is what gives it its pedigree !), and where this new ‘International’ seems – seems – to be wanting to play (almost assume) a leadership role.  So thank you for so directly asking these questions, and I’m hoping that Alberto and others will come in and augment what you have to say, and/or contest it.

            I have just one additional comment, which is however a little different from what you have asked (and is, indeed, a question that I think many of us on these listserves all need to think about, in terms of ourselves).  This is also with reference to who is on the PI Council, but where I think that in addition to the important questions you have asked Ashish, we need to also ask questions regarding the social – the class, caste, and related – composition of the Council. 

In short, as far as I can make out, all – or anyway, the vast majority - of the members of the PI Council come from what has come to be called ‘civil society’ – from (as I say, as far as I can see) the middle and upper sections of societies across the world, class and caste wise; which in turn means – at the minimum – the absence, till now, of members from what so-called ‘civil society’ sees as and has historically labeled as the so-called ‘lower’ sections of societies, and/or the ‘margins’ of dominant societies.  (I should make however clear here that I am definitely not familiar with all the societies and cultures from which its members come, let alone knowing all the members individually, and so I might be somewhat mistaken / there might be some exceptions – and I’d be glad if others would point out where I'm wrong in my generalisation; and moreover, that I am making this assertion on the basis of knowing many but not all of the members who are from India (and which is a surprisingly large cohort !); but overall, I think that I’m perhaps not far wrong.)

It is possible that the PI might induct some such ‘other’ people over time, but to me, and given the times during which this self-styled ‘Progressive International’ has been given birth – of movements of all sections of societies across Mother Earth in revolt, and the world in social tumult and, crucially, challenge to the established orders -, this exclusion of ‘the other’ is nothing less than stunning, and frankly, shocking.  From the context I know best, which is India, as far as I can see there are no Dalits and no Adivasis (Indigenous Peoples), and moreover – and especially given the nature of the present situation in India – it is also shocking that there are no Muslims. 

Why is this ?  I believe that this has not happened by mere ‘accident’, but rather has happened here, and happens in general, because of social dynamics and dialectics.

I appreciate that all initiatives have their limitations, and that all initiatives tend – despite their best intentions – to be places where ‘birds of a feather come together’, but I think that one that has the pretensions and ambitions that this one has, has to walk its talk.

For me, this is especially stunning, because it is an almost a precise enactment of the dynamics and dialectics of so-called ‘civil society’ that I have tried writing about over some years now; where I have argued that it is in the very DNA of ‘civil society’ to always attempt to control the discourse and to always seek hegemonic power-over; and where in my most recent attempts, I specifically discuss how this is now happening at the global level.[1]

            I’ve leave this here, as an augmentation to your points.

            (You have also mentioned that your response is not going to all the listserves I had posted on; this is just to let you know that I am now posting my reply to you on those same lists, so that people on those lists also get to see your important response.)

            Jai

 


[1] Jai Sen, November 2007d – ‘The power of civility’, in Mikael Löfgren and Håkan Thörn, eds, 2007 – ‘Global Civil Society – More Or Less Democracy ?’, special issue of Development Dialogue, no 49, pp 51-68.  Available @ https://independent.academia.edu/JaiSen.  Full issue available for download @ www.dhf.uu.se; and : Jai Sen, 2018b - ‘Break Free ! Engaging Critically with the Concept and Reality of Civil Society (Part 1)’, in Jai Sen, ed, 2018 – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance (New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press), pp 65-113.  Also available at https://www.academia.edu/38657297/Break_Free_Engaging_Critically_with_the_Concept_and_Reality_of_Civil_Society_Part_1_ (accessed js on 29.03.2019), and : Jai Sen, 2018c - ‘Break Free ! Engaging Critically with the Concept and Reality of Civil Society (Part 2)’, in Jai Sen, ed, 2018 – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance (New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press), pp 317-363.  Also available at https://www.academia.edu/38657324/Break_Free_Engaging_Critically_with_the_Concept_and_Reality_of_Civil_Society_Part_2_ (accessed js on 29.03.2019).


<Nabon article, as published REDWeb, 16.12.2017.pdf>

Jai Sen

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Jul 3, 2020, 11:03:15 AM7/3/20
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Friday, July 3, 2020

Thanks Ashish, for responding to that part of Dunu’s comment as you have. 

Dunu, you say here :

Now i don't mean this as a personal attack but just to point out that that has not prevented you from speaking out on their behalf, has it?

I’m sorry to say this but I think you’re missing the point I made - about the Progressive International in particular and about so-called ‘civil society’ in general.  My point was not that upper castes and classes have no role to play in such struggles, or should never speak out in support of the structurally oppressed; only that given what the PI has set itself up to be, it should have made sure that it directly included – from the outset - such peoples and nations, so that they can speak for themselves in such circles; and, importantly, be directly a part of all policy and strategy discussions.  (And implicitly, where as I see it, this of course applies to all such social and political formations that profess to talk about ‘progressive’ and even ‘radical’ change.)  And so where I don’t think we disagree in relation to agency.

And where I especially made this point in relation to the cohort of individuals from India on the PI’s Council, where – and with all due respect for what they might otherwise be doing – it’s absurd that the struggles of Dalits, Adivasis, and Muslims, which are raging in the country even as the PI was being formed, are not directly represented.  By absenting them, or even by not ‘seeing’ them, the PI has excluded them.

As I said, I see this as just one more space where the logic of so-called ‘civil society’ is playing itself out, where the upper sections coalesce to achieve and then to exercise power; here, at a transnational level.

            Last point : Dunu, you say what you’ve said is ‘not a personal attack’, but – and sorry to say this - yes, it does sound like that, in an underhanded kind of way.  Which, and Ashish has said, is a tone you so often deploy, often to the devastating effect of silencing others.  Maybe this is an area where you yourself might like to do some of what you suggest, “Perhaps we need to look inward a bit” ?

            Jai

PS : Ashish, I know you have responded only on WSMDiscuss, but since Dunu’s did his post elsewhere too (though I don’t know where it has appeared), I’m also posting this reply there… among other things, so that his message does get to be seen there too.



On Jul 3, 2020, at 8:49 AM, Ashish Kothari via WSM-Discuss <wsm-d...@lists.openspaceforum.net> wrote:

Dunu,  nothing stops you from joining all those lists and having your voice reach them, rather than making these points repeatedly about not being on them! We have no special privilege that allows us to be on them, and keeps you out. Make the effort of finding out who runs them, write to them, and join ... rahter than this repeated jibe about us being on them and you being excluded ... like a little schoolboy complaining that he's been left out of what the other kids are doing! :)

(this is a response only to that last line of yours ... and yes, you can think of it as another 'rebuke', but its v. much in the nature of the 'rebukes' you are very frequently putting out to others, juniors learn from their elders!):):)

Incidentally, of the various lists Jai has posted this on, I am not member of at least 3-4 and so can't post back on them ... but I'm not complaining ... I am already on too many!

ashish

LATEST! Pluriverse: A Post-Development Dictionary (thepluriverse.org) 
and www.globaltapestryofalternatives.org  

Ashish Kothari
Kalpavriksh
Apt 5 Shree Datta Krupa
908 Deccan Gymkhana
Pune 411004, India
Tel: 91-20-25654239; 91-20-25675450
http://kalpavriksh.org
www.vikalpsangam.org 
www.radicalecologicaldemocracy.org
www.iccaconsortium.org
www.acknowlej.org 
http://ashishkothari51.blogspot.in/ 
Twitter: @chikikothari 

On 03/07/20 6:08 pm, Dunu Roy via WSM-Discuss wrote:
Ashish and Jai, interesting discussion indeed. And, i am sure, will be particularly engaging to the many who are on the many lists you are both part of.
i was wondering whether i should make a couple of comments and finally decided to try at least.
First comment - regarding what Ashish says about 'dismantling the system' and, more importantly, which one to put in its place. From what you say, one can only interpret the latter as follows: defunding or dismantling the police; reducing the centralised power of the nation-state; enabling greater decision-making by local communities; moving away from extractivist economies; trusting the economic wisdom and practices of communities; embedding educational institutions in local; moving towards agroecology. So is that it? - agroecology, community wisdom, and community decision-making? Then perhaps we need to have a larger discussion of what social and political systems are and what it means to change them. 
Second comment - this is with respect to Jai's observation that members of the PI Council come from the middle and upper sections of societies and the absence of the ‘other’ that you find stunning and shocking; the exclusion of Dalits and Adivasis and Muslims and so on. Now Ashish has made a pertinent observation on that: an indigenous president is not necessarily favourable to the agency and needs of the indigenous. Well neither of you is a Dalit or an Adiwasi or Muslim, and you are very much located within the upper section of your society. Now i don't mean this as a personal attack but just to point out that that has not prevented you from speaking out on their behalf, has it? And does that mean that you are, by the same token, a truer representative of these sections? Perhaps we need to look inward a bit and also examine the nature of 'agency' as a political discussion.
My comment will, of course, not reach all the lists of which you are members (and i find it entertaining that only the other day Ashish rebuked me for saying this!) so have a good discussion.
In all solidarity
Dunu

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