gmx.com...your comment:
> Notes:
> There isn't much point using qubes with hardware that has ME/PSP,
Is the ME/PSP risk more from a Governement/Intel threat or are the vulnerabilities with these features available to other threat vectors as well? Would appreciate your thoughts...
Thanks again Qubes team...
But Adam is asking for laptops here, not desktops, that's why it becomes such a problem. It's not that I disagree so much with you, it's just that there are other perspectives to consider too. While I from time to time learn new perspectives and insight into open standard hardware from you (which I appreciate btw), I also in general tend to criticize perspectives, it's kind of a part of my personality (aka it's not personal), while I remain open to be criticized of my criticism too. That's why I love discussions, it enriches all parties. Just mentioning this so that I'm not misunderstood by being opposing.
In regards to Adams needs, it's true that security and functionality are important, but it's not equally so for all people (although we don't fully have an understanding of his needs, it might be more insightful if he elaborates a bit on it, otherwise our discussion will remain somewhat philosophical). I think we can agree many people, but not all, just want something that works, no further questions asked (dangerous, nut nonetheless). These kind of people also often love aesthetics (not to over generalize too much which can go wrong too, but some kinds of Mac fanboys/girls are like this for example). But it's not something exclusively so for Mac users either, or even all Mac users, but other PC users may have similar traits perspectives and desires as well.
There can also be certain functionality specifications, which may not be available in many laptops, and to add to that, adding specification requirements quickly narrows down the market of available laptops. If you add open standard on-top of that, it becomes even more narrow. It'll be impossible to fulfill all needs. We lack open standard laptops on the market which has the features we need.
While I my self take security seriously too, i.e. I as an example, have worries for a collapsing democracy in the future as technology risk becoming more and more centralized and closed, instead of decentralized and open. Another I as an example have other needs too, for example I do really enjoy a good looking laptop that feels like a high quality build. (That being said as a disclaimer, I heavily dislike Apple products).
Thing is, not everyone views laptops and computers the same way. I think the solution may be to try understand what people want form their devices, and try push solutions that fixes users needs through decentralized open standards, and thereby beating large corporations and their closed centralized technology, at their own game. Qubes OS is one such example, especially with Qubes Air coming in the future, among others.
The concern, I think, is that while it's true that it isn't always the users fault that security is weak, it is also true that it isn't always the hardwares fault either. It's often a mix of the two, where both variables can shift to give a different output in the equation, that being security right.
I don't think we can beat this game by taking away sleek looking laptops from people, it'd be like taking candy from children, they will cry. Before that starts to sound arrogant, I may say that I feel the same too, I'd love a good looking sleek laptop. That being said though, I also take security seriously too.
The OP, Adam, seem to be in a similar situation? I'm not sure if he is. But if he wants best of both worlds (laptops, not desktops), he thereby ends in an impossible situation choosing between two variables, security and user-needs. One factor of the equation has to give in for the other factor, because the equations output is already set (existing laptops on the market right now), and we can only try shift the variables so the equation solves and matches.
For the most part I do agree with you btw, don't get me wrong about that. The enemy I think, is society as a whole, and not just the hardware industry and market. We need to find solutions in society to fix this, and consider issues in society too. The impossible situation Adam seems to end up in here between these two factors, is one such example, we can't fix it, there is no solution right now. He will draw the short straw, just like the rest of us, if we have user-needs which is not covered by open standards. Society seen in a holistic view, with regard to open hardware, needs to change in its views and understanding of it. We can even force the large corporations on their knee's this way, to open up their standards if society as a whole demands it.
Meanwhile though, there is no good choices for Adam in the laptop market. I might be wrong as I don't keep taps on new open standard releases, but as I understand it, we're at least a few years away from a decent quality build open standard laptop? and a bit further away from such laptops with various functional needs.
As such, while it sucks, shoulnd't we recommend him laptops that works better overall between his user-needs and security? For that though, we need a better understanding of his needs though, he hasn't posted about that yet.
I suggest a lenovo W520, as it supports coreboot with open source hw init and me cleaner (which nerfs but does not disable ME - it is impossible to disable ME, dell/purism are lying) you can also use an egpu for additional graphics power and install an ivy bridge processor for better power figures.
I would also look in to the TALOS 2 (OpenPOWER9) which is a very high performance owner controlled workstation with libre firmware for both the board and BMC (even the microcode is owner controlled and has documentation supplied, there is absolutely no hardware code signing enforcement).
POWER is now the worlds only owner controlled performance cpu arch due to both intel and AMD adopting black box supervisor processors and hardware code signing enforcement.
https://raptorcs.com
It also supports CAPI and PCI-e 4.0, which I imagine might interest you.
No it does not yet it gets repeatedly mentioned to where it makes people think its viable option which it is not.
The op wants a high end laptop which also eliminates all the old coreboot laptops. as he wants a laptop it also removes the asusu amd server board desktop builds. Best bet is lenovo thinkpad with the highest ram and processor combo and ssd drive/s. It will likely give the best compatibility
The Razer Blade and the XPS/Precision both have hellish thermal throttling issues. I can't imagine putting a hotter CPU in the 15 with the same cooling will end well.
I have the P51 and the issues around it are regarding the thermal paste, if you do a repaste with kryonaut or similar you'll keep a lower avg temp.
I think its rather moot talking about intel backdoors when its 100% plausible that countless firmwares are backdoored. Its been mentioned numerous times by Joanna Marek and others that at some point at this current point in consumer computing ayou must accept trust. Whatever that point is may be different for different people but unless you are going to make a computer from silicon up and every line of code to include a compiler etc you must trust at some level. Thus the whole idea of picking and choosing which of the possible violation is unacceptable is rather moot
Wownfine I give up h you ha e read so much into my commemts that I never intnnded whatever. Tell the guy that wants a high end laptop to buy a power pc or a talonto run qubes ofc it. Or to use those ausu boards as that will make angreat laptop. Since every piiece of hardware you use om those syztems is 100% opensource I guess that includes the harddrive firmware w. As this op wants a laptop though please name a single open that meets the standards you speak of with no close sourced firmware and drivers. Becuase no LE agencies in the USA ha e ever used backdoor firmware on hardrives.
Actually do not bother as I am done distruptiong this ops threads with such off topic drivel.
There are plenty of choices for high end laptops that have been suggested or can be found on the compatbility list.
This Acer is well known for being a workhorse but most of all, one of the most Linux compatible notebooks out there. I love it. Plan on buying a 2nd as a spare.
Seriously all these scumbag laptop companies out there.... the moment a proper company comes out and offers proper user controlled laptops which also provides a variation of specs and types of laptops, it's byebye to these manipulative scumbag companies.
While many people don't care at all, the amount of people getting fed up with these companies are mounting and increasing as well. It's dangerous if they keep making people unhappy, and it'll only get worse as technology becomes increasingly closer to our brains, and at some point even integrated into our brain, which will undoubtedly happen, and maybe even (probably likely) become mainstream.
So who wants a proprietary, backdoored, error-prone, computer in their brain in contrast to open source, open hardware, which can be trusted? Even before all this, some people who didn't care before, are starting to care now when technology is increasingly getting closer to their lives. Like The Amazon Echo, which is always listening to its environment, and now it's happening to TV's and many other gadgets as well. Eventually even toasters can spy on us.
It'll probably only be a question of time before people smack down on large corporations demanding major change. The question is probably more "when" it'll happen. At which point is enough enough?
Seemingly it also has a cultural effect, like the Chinese people are essentially just rolling over allowing their iron tight government to use new technology to become never before seen scary Big Brother v.2.
But the western world probably won't let it go that far. There are many ignorant people, but at some point, the film will have to crack. We're building a dys-topian society here, and more and more people are starting to realize just that.
Heck we might even see an Elon Musk in open hardware one day, if the problem keeps growing. But right now, laptop hardware choices are rather moot and quite frankly, impossible to find something that serves all primary needs (not even getting to the secondary needs).