Which qube is most secure for internet use?

[O K]

Which qube is most secure when it comes to keeping any identifying info about my computer invisible from anyone on the internet (or if not completely, which qube does this the best)?  Thanks.

[799]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 16:52, O K <oak...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which qube is most secure when it comes to keeping any identifying info about my computer

> invisible from anyone on the internet (or if not completely, which qube does this the best)?  Thanks.

 

I would say that the safest way to assume, that there is no invisibility.

But using a Whonix DVM -> whonix-dvm-ws-14-dvm will likely be a good option.

You might want to learn about this here:

https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes/DisposableVM

Addtionally you might want to ask yourself: What are the threads your protecting against?

And then try to figure out what is the weakest part in your setup.

[799]

[O K]

Well I'm not as concerned about people monitoring/intercepting the content of my communications, just about identifying information about the hardware of my computer being accessible.  I know it's not easy to acquire info about someone's computer from the internet, and if the computer's running Qubes I would imagine it's harder, but I think it can be done (definitely Mac address but possibly more info).

[799]

O K <oak...@gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 16. Aug. 2019, 18:17:

Well I'm not as concerned about people monitoring/intercepting the content of my communications, just about identifying information about the hardware of my computer being accessible.

Why? If someone can't identify you, why should he make the effort to find a way into your Qubes machine to get the hardware info? If it is an attack which you're not the specific target, there are easier options, like hacking your router or maybe one of your "smart" home devices.

I know it's not easy to acquire info about someone's computer from the internet, and if the computer's running Qubes I would imagine it's harder, but I think it can be done (definitely Mac address but possibly more info).

Yes. Using Qubes will increase your security to a reasonable secure level (if you use it correctly).

[799]

[O K]

No, I will only be using the computer on public networks, not a private one so router, phone, etc is not an issue.  I'm talking about if someone were to become a target because, let's say, he was in China speaking out against the gov't - the gov't could identify what network and computer that traffic was coming from, hack into his computer and they're off to the races.  Obviously China, N. Korea, etc can probably get into any computer, server, etc. they want (N. Koreans hacked into Universal studios or whatever studio that was), and they certainly won't be after me, but I'm talking from a security standpoint.

[sourcexorapprentice]

China changes everything, as 799 hinted at thinking about what threads you're concerned about.

For "they certainly won't be after me" as a foreigner in China I just used my home internet with a VPN and skipped Whonix. If I was going to get in trouble/deported, it wouldn't have anything to do with my computer's privacy/security. It would be because I posted something critical on Facebook, or some operational security mistake like a critical blog/forum post using the same pseudonym I registered someplace else with my real name and email.

In China, using Whonix out of the box and accessing Tor is a bad idea and is dangerous for your personal security. Entry node IPs are public and they will know. Both Tor and VPNs are quasi-illegal, but there's a difference. Tor screams out that you're a dissident or criminal. VPNs instead suggest you're streaming Netflix or looking at pictures of cats on Facebook. A VPN might land a local Tibetan/muslim in prison, but nothing happens to foreigners using a VPN (which is everyone, and they're not going to deport everyone).

For "most secure" in China, I would put a VPN VM behind sys-net, and then use Qubes settings to attach whonix-gw behind the VPN and use whonix-ws for browsing (https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/vpn/). For China, NordVPN supposedly works best, but I've never had issues there using ExpressVPN. For the paranoid, consider for a moment that China blocks other VPNs but not these two... So, you just connect the whonix-gw through the VPN and now you have reasonable Qubes security and reasonable privacy from the whonix-ws. Whonix uses Tor and prevents identification of your true IP/Mac/host DNS/hardware is the purpose of Whonix using a gateway (GW) and a workstation (WS). Using Whonix on Qubes alleviates some of the pitfalls of your hardware concerns, identified here: https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Host_Security

For public Wi-Fi, your card's MAC accessing a VPN would still be seen. Scrambling your Wi-Fi card's MAC address using macchanger is easy to screw up and some cards don't play nice. Pretty useless anyway, a cafe in China is going to have at least two cameras on you inside and the streets are covered in cities so a directional antenna only brings attention to yourself. Just be mindful of what's recording your screen.

[sourcexorapprentice]

A correction and addendum brought to my attention, thanks!

1. MAC changing -- Do it anyway, you're more likely to be tracked down that way than cameras, excellent Qubes documentation on that:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/anonymizing-your-mac-address/

You can confirm it works by randomizing it and connecting to your wifi router first before trusting it works in public. Macchanger is excellent software, I just mean my neophyte self messing up or using incompatible hardware.

2. VPN setup -- It's easy to make mistakes and let it leak what you're doing, but there's a Github project on this you may want to checkout:

https://github.com/tasket/Qubes-vpn-support

[Mark Newman]

> --
Actually it is VERY easy to "acquire info about someone's computer from
the internet". Also unfortunately, while Whonix does a good job of
masking your IP address (your location), it does NOT protect you against
the website you visit from taking and keeping your browser
"fingerprint". For more information on your browser fingerprint see:
https://panopticlick.eff.org/
Whether any of this "fingerprint" data is actually gathered depends on
the website that you are visiting. It is also possible that a
well-intentioned website could be unknowingly hacked by a government
entity to collect just such information. Further the website could be
placing a cookie on your machine.
The usual actions here are to make your browser settings more common so
your "fingerprint" is not unique. Also using a temporary qube and
deleting it after use will erase any cookies.

[799]

Hello Mark,

Mark Newman <mark...@yandex.com> schrieb am Mi., 21. Aug. 2019, 04:11:

(...)

Actually it is VERY easy to "acquire info about someone's computer from
the internet".  Also unfortunately, while Whonix does a good job of
masking your IP address (your location), it does NOT protect you against
the website you visit from taking and keeping your browser
"fingerprint".  For more information on your browser fingerprint see:
https://panopticlick.eff.org/

Wouldn't a disposable whonix AppVM help against this fingerprinting?

[799]

[American Qubist 001]

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 7:52:44 AM UTC-7, O K wrote:

Which qube is most secure when it comes to keeping any identifying info about my computer invisible from anyone on the internet (or if not completely, which qube does this the best)?  Thanks.se 

Use a completely different computer if at all possible segregating anything that your snoop agencies/torturers/totalitarians/cyberstalkers/thieves or other malicious actor should not access. Download to a usb or temporarily unlocked encrypted partition imho preferable an external hardrive preferable, immediately lock or disconnect. Download via VPN. Maybe TOR but in some places you will be arrested or watchlisted if using TOR.