Is there a standard procedure to reinstall whonix?

[Achim Patzner]

Hi!


As I've never taken a look at the entire whonix sub-systemI'm a bit
clueless myself...


Someone who has so completely mesed up his whonix-ws and -gw templates
that sys-whonix is not connecting to tor anymore probably needs to set
it up anew. Is there a standard way of removing all VMs and downloading
clean templates without reinstalling qubes? Or is there a better way to
get the templates and then sys-whonix to their original states?



Achim

[Andrew David Wong]

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1. (Optional) Clone your existing whonix-gw and whonix-ws templates.

2. Temporarily change all VMs based on whonix-gw and whonix-ws to
another template (e.g., the ones created in the previous step).

3. Uninstall the Whonix templates from dom0:

$ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-gw
$ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-ws

4. Reinstall the Whonix templates in dom0:

$ sudo qubes-dom0-update --enablerepo=qubes-templates-community \
qubes-template-whonix-gw qubes-template-whonix-ws

5. Change the VMs from step 2 back to (the new) whonix-gw and whonix-ws.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[7v5w7go9ub0o]

On 06/06/2016 10:34 AM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 2016-06-05 23:18, Achim Patzner wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>>
>> As I've never taken a look at the entire whonix sub-systemI'm a
>> bit clueless myself...
>>
>>
>> Someone who has so completely mesed up his whonix-ws and -gw
>> templates that sys-whonix is not connecting to tor anymore probably
>> needs to set it up anew. Is there a standard way of removing all
>> VMs and downloading clean templates without reinstalling qubes? Or
>> is there a better way to get the templates and then sys-whonix to
>> their original states?
>>
>>
>>
>> Achim
>>
> 1. (Optional) Clone your existing whonix-gw and whonix-ws templates.
>
> 2. Temporarily change all VMs based on whonix-gw and whonix-ws to
> another template (e.g., the ones created in the previous step).
>
> 3. Uninstall the Whonix templates from dom0:
>
> $ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-gw
> $ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-ws
>
> 4. Reinstall the Whonix templates in dom0:
>
> $ sudo qubes-dom0-update --enablerepo=qubes-templates-community \
> qubes-template-whonix-gw qubes-template-whonix-ws
>
> 5. Change the VMs from step 2 back to (the new) whonix-gw and whonix-ws.
>

Nice, clear response!

[Achim Patzner]

Am 06.06.2016 um 12:34 schrieb Andrew David Wong:
> > Someone who has so completely mesed up his whonix-ws and -gw
> > templates that sys-whonix is not connecting to tor anymore probably
> > needs to set it up anew. Is there a standard way of removing all
> > VMs and downloading clean templates without reinstalling qubes? Or
> > is there a better way to get the templates and then sys-whonix to
> > their original states?
>
>
>
>

> 1. (Optional) Clone your existing whonix-gw and whonix-ws templates.
>
> 2. Temporarily change all VMs based on whonix-gw and whonix-ws to
> another template (e.g., the ones created in the previous step).
>
> 3. Uninstall the Whonix templates from dom0:
>
> $ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-gw
> $ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-ws
>
> 4. Reinstall the Whonix templates in dom0:
>
> $ sudo qubes-dom0-update --enablerepo=qubes-templates-community \
> qubes-template-whonix-gw qubes-template-whonix-ws
>
> 5. Change the VMs from step 2 back to (the new) whonix-gw and whonix-ws.

Thank you!

Would you mind adding that to the whonix pages? Maybe with two changes
(reason: If someone is able to really render his whonix unusable in a
way that it won't connect to Tor anymore he should be considered foolish
[as in "you don't mess with security devices and much less with safety
devices you do not understand or you're obviously an idiot" -- about
page three of an introductory course to process automation I'm currently
reading]. Point 1 and 2 are meant to salvage the modifications to the
actual running whonix and this must not be considered trustworthy/safe
anymore (I won't guess what happened before it stopped working). So I
made this genius remove them completely and reinstall them using
qubesctl. You might at least hint at the fact that "if you don't know
what you modified you should throw it away".


Achim

[Andrew David Wong]

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Added:

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-doc/commit/
ffbe63ac8c6fa3feb06ab78ac88455cc90fb746a

I'm not sure if I understood the proposed two changes, but feel free
to submit a pull request to edit the page if you see fit.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[Andrew David Wong]

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Hash: SHA512

On 2016-06-06 16:02, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> Added:
>
> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-doc/commit/
> ffbe63ac8c6fa3feb06ab78ac88455cc90fb746a
>
> I'm not sure if I understood the proposed two changes, but feel
> free to submit a pull request to edit the page if you see fit.
>

The live page is available here:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/whonix/reinstall/

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[raah...@gmail.com]

Whonix recently came out with a new updated release that requires some manual steps so its not you. Its happened to all of us. I followed these instructions on one machine. https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Upgrading_Whonix_12_to_Whonix_13

But on on another machine it was so borked i coudln't even update with apt-get. Kept telling me that the firewall wasn't starting or some error, so I ended up reinstalling the same way that Andrew explained. That really is the easiest way. Cheers.

[Achim Patzner]

Am 07.06.2016 um 01:02 schrieb Andrew David Wong:

> I'm not sure if I understood the proposed two changes

Steps 1 and 2: If someone starts poking around in sys-whonix, changing
settings arbitrarily and it suddenly fails to work one has to assume
that it isn't secure anymore. So instead of preserving sys-whonix and
anon-whonix they should be deleted and replaced, too.


Achim

[Andrew David Wong]

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Ok, then it looks like the page is fine as it stands (at least with
respect to this concern).

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[raah...@gmail.com]

Yep thats how i feel with every anomaly, its why I love qubes. When in doubt, wipe it out! Qubes makes it too easy.

[Drew White]

On Monday, 6 June 2016 20:34:56 UTC+10, Andrew David Wong wrote:

1. (Optional) Clone your existing whonix-gw and whonix-ws templates.

2. Temporarily change all VMs based on whonix-gw and whonix-ws to
   another template (e.g., the ones created in the previous step).

3. Uninstall the Whonix templates from dom0:

   $ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-gw
   $ sudo yum remove qubes-template-whonix-ws

4. Reinstall the Whonix templates in dom0:

   $ sudo qubes-dom0-update --enablerepo=qubes-templates-community \
     qubes-template-whonix-gw qubes-template-whonix-ws

5. Change the VMs from step 2 back to (the new) whonix-gw and whonix-ws.

If one doesn't have the templates on the machine, but didn't "uninstall" them, how
would one reinstall them using the RPM's on the DVD?

Hope you can help. Because I've been trying to reinstall them and I can't.

[Patrick Schleizer]

Drew White:

> If one doesn't have the templates on the machine, but didn't "uninstall"
> them, how
> would one reinstall them using the RPM's on the DVD?
>
> Hope you can help. Because I've been trying to reinstall them and I can't.

This is a complete different question. Please create a new subject for
it and do not post it in unrelated threads.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Patrick Schleizer]

Andrew David Wong:

> On 2016-06-06 16:02, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>> Added:
>
>> https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-doc/commit/
>> ffbe63ac8c6fa3feb06ab78ac88455cc90fb746a
>
>> I'm not sure if I understood the proposed two changes, but feel
>> free to submit a pull request to edit the page if you see fit.
>
>
> The live page is available here:
>
> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/whonix/reinstall/
>
>

From #1955 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1955 - Quote
Marek:

> And generally, I think normal users (not developers/testers) do not
need to reinstall template ever. Instead - apply standard updates.

I guess we just revisitted this. I guess reinstall has its place.

I am wondering about the following...

> At a minimum, you’ll want a ProxyVM (conventionally called sys-whonix)
based on whonix-gw and an AppVM based on whonix-ws that uses sys-whonix
as its NetVM.

Perhaps that should not be done manually. Too error-prone. [ As
discussed in #1955 ] perhaps invoking salt would be better.

sudo qubesctl state.highstate

What do you think?

> (Optional) Temporarily change all VMs based on whonix-gw and whonix-ws
to another template

I think this is a bit dangerous. Easily forgotten. And you would not
want some my-whonix-ws AppVM to boot with the temporarily set debian-8
template. Is there a way to set the template to some virtual value
"none"? Or could we have such a feature?

Cheers,
Patrick

[Patrick Schleizer]

Patrick Schleizer:
> sudo qubesctl state.highstate

It would set whonix-gw NetVM to sys-whonix which is great. However, it
would not set back sys-whonix Template from lets say debian-8 to
whonix-gw, which is not great but understandable.

[Chris Laprise]

If re-installation is the goal, why not use the in-place method from the
template doc? That involves 'qubes-dom0-update template-package' then
after it downloads the package and says there is nothing to update, do a
'yum reinstall template-package'.

Chris

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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Interesting idea.

You can create a dummy template quite easily:
mkdir /var/lib/qubes/vm-templates/dummy
touch /var/lib/qubes/vm-templates/dummy/{root.img,private.img}
qvm-add-template dummy

Using this as a temporary template, instead of, say, debian-8 is better
because you can't boot such VM accidentally (there is no OS in there, so
boot will fail).

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[Patrick Schleizer]

Chris Laprise:

Because qubes-dom0-update currently excludes qubes-tempalte-* packages.

https://github.com/marmarek/qubes-core-admin-linux/blob/6c7443223bb13348da1f3ff20d3dc1fec19073d6/dom0-updates/qubes-dom0-update#L26

Cheers,
Patrick

[Chris Laprise]

Would it be better not to have qubes-dom0-update exclude template
packages when --action=reinstall is specified? Then the template could
be reinstalled in-place without manual reconfiguration of vms.

Chris

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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That's some idea, pretty good IMO. Care to send a pull request? ;)

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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Hash: SHA256

Also requires checking if rpm reinstallation really works - i.e.
post-installation scripts handle that case.

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[Patrick Schleizer]

Patrick Schleizer:
> Chris Laprise:

> Because qubes-dom0-update currently excludes qubes-tempalte-* packages.
>
> https://github.com/marmarek/qubes-core-admin-linux/blob/6c7443223bb13348da1f3ff20d3dc1fec19073d6/dom0-updates/qubes-dom0-update#L26
>
> Cheers,
> Patrick
>

As a result of this thread, various tickets with improvements have been
created. Some of them requiring code, others input for discussion and
design.

qubes-dom0-update template reinstallation option
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2061

option to set the TemplateVM setting for TemplateBasedVMs to none
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2062

qubes-template-manager (QTM) cli tool
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2064

Better way of packaging templates than RPM
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2063

(I posted #2064 before noticing that #2063 was posted.)

(And I posted these tickets before noticing discussion below that
message above.)

Cheers,
Patrick

[Patrick Schleizer]

Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:

Good idea, indeed!

I proposed --no-exclude and the other suggestion is --action=reinstall.
Which one is better? --action-reinstall is less surprising while
--no-exclude is generic once/if dom0 gets ported to Debian.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Patrick Schleizer]

Patrick Schleizer:

--action=reinstall ... Would this work in all cases or are there cases
where '--action' is not 'reinstall' but
'something,reinstall,something-else'. This theoretic case would
obviously a lot more difficult to implement.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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No, action is always one word. This is mapped directly to yum command
(take a look at `yum --help`). Not all of them makes sense for
`qubes-dom0-update`, but in theory it is possible to use any of them.

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[Drew White]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 04:15:10 UTC+10, Patrick Schleizer wrote:

This is a complete different question. Please create a new subject for
it and do not post it in unrelated threads.

Cheers,
Patrick

Patrick, read the subject of this post. "Is there a standard procedure to reinstall whonix?"

My query related to the RPMs, because in some places around the world we don't have infinite data on our internet connection.
so having a standard practice is fine, but even via the method that was stated here previously it didn't work because of the fact that I had the issue and could not uninstall or anything, so I made the query.

[Patrick Schleizer]

Drew White:
> If one doesn't have the templates on the machine, but didn't "uninstall"
> them, how
> would one reinstall them using the RPM's on the DVD?
>
> Hope you can help. Because I've been trying to reinstall them and I can't.
>
>
>

I see. However, your question is still so much different, that it will
highly likely - like it happened - be ignored in this thread. Since we
need clean, on-topic subject lines to keep the overview in the flood of
diverse requests...

I suggest a subject line like this:
how to reinstall Template RPMs with installation source Qubes Installer DVD

Also before your explanation why you wanted to do this, it got most
likely ignored because it was perhaps (at least by me) perceived as a
strange request. "Because I've been trying to reinstall them and I
can't." -> "Yeah, great, so why not wait until it's fully documented
and/or try the instructions and tell us how and why it breaks. Why give
up and invent something more difficult rather than the standard procedure."

After you explained why you wanted to do that, seems like a good
question, worthwhile to document.

Cheers,
Patrick

[Drew White]

Hi Patrick,

Why was it ignored?

It wasn't, so don't say it was when it wasn't.

You didn't ignore it.