new Desktop build recommendation

[Wael Nasreddine]

Hello,

I'm looking to build a new Desktop specifically for Qubes OS, so my most important requirement is compatibility. I currently have 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400 (PC4 27200)[0] that I'd like to use, and I'm looking for a recommendation for the motherboard and CPU. Preferably a 6+ cores CPU. What do you guys use?

I'm aware of the HCL page, but I'm mostly interested in knowing your personal experience with your current hardware.

[0]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232264

[pixel fairy]

On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 12:23:18 PM UTC-8, Wael Nasreddine wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to build a new Desktop specifically for Qubes OS, so my most important requirement is compatibility. I currently have 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400 (PC4 27200)[0] that I'd like to use, and I'm looking for a recommendation for the motherboard and CPU. Preferably a 6+ cores CPU. What do you guys use?
>
> I'm aware of the HCL page, but I'm mostly interested in knowing your personal experience with your current hardware.

im using a super micro c7z170sq, which mostly works, but ive never gotten the ps2 ports to work, so no sys-usb. the cpu is a 4 core skylake.

> [0]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232264

[gro...@gmail.com]

> 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400

I recently posted an HCL note here for an i7-7700 ASUS H270 motherboard that seems to be running Qubes 4.0-rc3 ok and probably takes this DRAM. Read the ASUS support site to confirm for yourself, of course.

> never gotten the ps2 ports to work, so no sys-usb

PS/2 ports are working fine on my system, fortunately. sys-usb was a requirement for me.

[Yethal]

Zero issues with i7-6800K on an AsRock X99 board. Has PS/2 port, disabling Management Engine is possible via built in flashing tool, all hardware sensors were detected and it supports PCI-E bifurcation alongside SR-IOV. I'm running Mini-itx version which may be unsuitable for your needs as it only takes 32GB of ram but it would be pretty safe to assume that full-size AsRock X99 motherboards would also be fully compatible with Qubes.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

That isn't disabling ME, nor ME cleaner - you can NOT disable ME - it is
impossible even the HAP tool doesn't do so.

Your only hope is to buy hardware without it such as the new enough to
be useful Socket G34 and C32 AMD PRE-PSP Systems, boards KGPE-D16 and
KCMA-D8 have libre firmware available and can play video games in a VM
via IOMMU-GFX, they also have dual onboard separate USB controllers (you
can use the second via a breakout bracket)

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 12/08/2017 03:07 AM, Tai...@gmx.com wrote:

> Your only hope is to buy hardware without it such as the new enough to
> be useful Socket G34 and C32 AMD PRE-PSP Systems, boards KGPE-D16 and
> KCMA-D8 have libre firmware available and can play video games in a VM
> via IOMMU-GFX, they also have dual onboard separate USB controllers
> (you can use the second via a breakout bracket)
>

Forgot to add, there is also POWER9 (ex: TALOS 2) which is owner
controlled and fully open source, one can even replace the microcode.

While POWER has an IOMMU and all the other technical features to run
qubes the devs do not compile it for POWER arch yet.

Some ARM CPU's has a IOMMU like technology (GICv3) but I am not sure
about the technical details, plus many ARM CPU's are not owner
controlled or are made by fly-by-nite chinese companies.

It isn't as if there are no options - people simply keep buying the
mainstream stuff.

[Yethal]

I ran me_cleaner with -s flag on it (setting HAP bit to 1) which supposedly halts ME execution after hardware init is finished.

Main issue with Talos2 isn't the fact that it's not a well known product, the main issue is that the most basic version, with no RAM, no SSD and no GPU costs $4,750 which makes it look as if privacy was the privilege of the rich.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

Like I have said before, that is the standard price for server hardware
in its performance class - it is simply the cost of production similarly
as to how a high end Intel/AMD CPU costs thousands on its own.

Like any POWER system its target market is the corporate world. (for now)

You can always get a KCMA-D8 for $250, you'd have open source firmware
both for the board and the BMC.

[Wael Nasreddine]

On Friday, December 8, 2017 at 12:07:56 AM UTC-8, Tai...@gmx.com wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 02:43 AM, Yethal wrote:
>
> > W dniu czwartek, 7 grudnia 2017 21:23:18 UTC+1 użytkownik Wael Nasreddine napisał:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I'm looking to build a new Desktop specifically for Qubes OS, so my most important requirement is compatibility. I currently have 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400 (PC4 27200)[0] that I'd like to use, and I'm looking for a recommendation for the motherboard and CPU. Preferably a 6+ cores CPU. What do you guys use?
> >>
> >> I'm aware of the HCL page, but I'm mostly interested in knowing your personal experience with your current hardware.
> >>
> >> [0]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232264
> > Zero issues with i7-6800K on an AsRock X99 board. Has PS/2 port, disabling Management Engine is possible via built in flashing tool, all hardware sensors were detected and it supports PCI-E bifurcation alongside SR-IOV. I'm running Mini-itx version which may be unsuitable for your needs as it only takes 32GB of ram but it would be pretty safe to assume that full-size AsRock X99 motherboards would also be fully compatible with Qubes.
> That isn't disabling ME, nor ME cleaner - you can NOT disable ME - it is
> impossible even the HAP tool doesn't do so.

What's the ME and why disable it?

>
> Your only hope is to buy hardware without it such as the new enough to
> be useful Socket G34 and C32 AMD PRE-PSP Systems, boards KGPE-D16 and
> KCMA-D8 have libre firmware available and can play video games in a VM
> via IOMMU-GFX, they also have dual onboard separate USB controllers (you
> can use the second via a breakout bracket)

So I looked at both of these boards[0], they take a DDR3 board, but I found this one[1] that takes DDR4, does it still have opensource firmware?

[0]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?CompareItemList=%2D1%7C13%2D131%2D670%5E13%2D131%2D670%2C13%2D131%2D643%5E13%2D131%2D643
[1]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132257

[Tai...@gmx.com]

That is an entirely unrelated motherboard, the only thing in common is
that they re-used the model suffix "D16" other than that is is
completely different and as it is intel no it can't and it doesn't.

Just get a KGPE-D16 or KCMA-D8 - they're great boards - not only do they
have libre firmware but they also have a secure libre OpenBMC firmware
for remote management.
https://www.raptorengineering.com/coreboot/kgpe-d16-bmc-port-status.php

The D16 comes with the required BMC module (ASMB4-iKVM or ASMB5-iKVM)
but the D8 doesn't.

Sell your DDR4 RAM, the only thing with open source firmware that
accepts DDR4 is the TALOS 2 for $4K - while that is an average price for
server hardware in its performance class (actually a good deal compared
with intel where a single xeon CPU alone costs thousands and only has
one thread per core vs POWER9 8 SMT threads per core) it is still a lot
of money unless you have a need for incredible speed and or incredible
security (POWER9 is open source hardware and entirely owner owner
controlled with no hardware code signing enforcement one can even modify
the microcode)

[Wael Nasreddine]

What do you think of this build https://screenshots.firefox.com/fHb14uahx7lEeAGe/secure.newegg.com ? I'm still missing cooler, power supply and possibly a TPM, I'd love your recommendation for these.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay
$80/ea for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a
6386SE for that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the
"protection plan" for anything either its a waste of money.

For the cooler I would get the 140W G34 cooler from noctua (needs 4U
case as it is tall)

PSU make sure you get a good brand with dual EPS12V (not adapters), I
suggest one that has modular cables.

If you want to have 192GB RAM there is a guide on the coreboot wiki you
gotta follow to make it work in terms of placement, otherwise I would
just get 8GB DIMM's and save money if you only want 128GB.

That case will not work, it is ATX and the KGPE-D16 needs SSI-EEB (only
available on a server case)
Damn $230 for a crappy ATX case and it isn't even brand new, you could
get a really nice 4U supermicro server case for that!

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay
$80/ea for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a
6386SE for that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the
"protection plan" for anything either its a waste of money.

Oh thanks for the tip, I'll definitely check ebay for the parts.

For the cooler I would get the 140W G34 cooler from noctua (needs 4U
case as it is tall)

PSU make sure you get a good brand with dual EPS12V (not adapters), I
suggest one that has modular cables.

If you want to have 192GB RAM there is a guide on the coreboot wiki you
gotta follow to make it work in terms of placement, otherwise I would
just get 8GB DIMM's and save money if you only want 128GB.

That case will not work, it is ATX and the KGPE-D16 needs SSI-EEB (only
available on a server case)
Damn $230 for a crappy ATX case and it isn't even brand new, you could
get a really nice 4U supermicro server case for that!

 

I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine, are the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay
$80/ea for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a
6386SE for that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the
"protection plan" for anything either its a waste of money.

The cheapest I found the 6380 on ebay is 129.95 https://www.ebay.com/itm/372177489204 I found cheaper but with higher shipping fee. I wasn't ablet to find a good/cheap 1600 DDR3 sticks. I did find a cheaper board https://www.ebay.com/itm/132447255551 I'll buy the board for now and continue looking for the rest. Your help would be appreciated, are you anywhere on irc?

[Marco Silva]

Pretty much any server hardware will work fine, personally I'm running a Tyan S7050 motherboard with a couple of E5-2667 V2 CPU's and 64gb of samsung ddr 3 ecc ram a couple of ssd's in (fake) raid 0 and 2 AMD gpu's. Unless you're pretty paranoid I wouldn't go with really old and slow hardware. If you have a decent amount of ddr4 I would look for an AMD Ryzen.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-PSP-Disable-Option

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

I currently have an ASRock Z170 Pro4 and an i7-6700k and I found it crashing from time to time for no particular reason, I might give the AMD Ryzen a chance but I'm not sure if it'll work better. I also have my eye out for the 2018 XPS 15 laptop which will come with 6 cores CPU; I'm honestly bit lost on what to choose for the best compatibility with Qubes. I prefer a laptop (if it's strong enough but also has to be light) and I can go with a Desktop if it would be the most compatible.

On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 1:50 PM Marco Silva <marcoda...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pretty much any server hardware will work fine, personally I'm running a Tyan S7050 motherboard with a couple of E5-2667 V2 CPU's and 64gb of samsung ddr 3 ecc ram a couple of ssd's in (fake) raid 0 and 2 AMD gpu's. Unless you're pretty paranoid I wouldn't go with really old and slow hardware. If you have a decent amount of ddr4 I would look for an AMD Ryzen.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-PSP-Disable-Option

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[cooloutac]

I would suggest, as advice I followed from qubes docs, is to just try to find a board that has a manual describing iommu/vt-d options as available. Preferably manual stating its on by default. The best of all scenarios being a manual that shows a picture of the option with it enabled.

I would also suggest something with a ps/2 port for your keyboard, and using a usb to ps/2 adapter for better security.

integrated gpu is all you need. I would suggest 16-32gb of ram.

best of luck.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 12/27/2017 04:50 PM, Marco Silva wrote:

> Pretty much any server hardware will work fine, personally I'm running a Tyan S7050 motherboard with a couple of E5-2667 V2 CPU's and 64gb of samsung ddr 3 ecc ram a couple of ssd's in (fake) raid 0 and 2 AMD gpu's. Unless you're pretty paranoid I wouldn't go with really old and slow hardware. If you have a decent amount of ddr4 I would look for an AMD Ryzen.
>
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-PSP-Disable-Option
>

ME/PSP can't be disabled peroid - that article is inaccurate and the
"disable" option simply shuts off part of the OS visibility of PSP (the
PCI device)
ME cleaner only nerfs ME, the companies like dell, system76 and the
purism scammers are lying to make more money - ask anyone with serious
firmware engineering skills it CANT be disabled bottom line.

The Opteron 6386 is faster than your E5-2667 and it lacks the ME/PSP
virus - it can also play new games at high settings in a VM via IOMMU-GFX.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2667+%40+2.90GHz
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Opteron+6386+SE

If you weren't "pretty paranoid" aka security conscious you wouldn't be
using qubes would you?

The CIA created the term "paranoid" so that people could say "oh don't
be a paranoid weirdo" - which was silly as there were so very many
soviet spies back then so people should have been more paranoid.

On 12/27/2017 04:29 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 8:48 AM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay
>> $80/ea for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a
>> 6386SE for that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the
>> "protection plan" for anything either its a waste of money.
>>
>> The cheapest I found the 6380 on ebay is 129.95
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/372177489204 I found cheaper but with higher
> shipping fee. I wasn't ablet to find a good/cheap 1600 DDR3 sticks. I did
> find a cheaper board https://www.ebay.com/itm/132447255551 I'll buy the
> board for now and continue looking for the rest. Your help would be
> appreciated, are you anywhere on irc?

Don't buy a used board dude get a new one.
All RAM is the pretty much the same FYI there are only so many OEM's the
only difference is branding no more "good ram" or "bad cheap ram" these
days, and when it comes to server RAM ECC will let you know of any
issues before they cause trouble.

I am not on IRC but as always you can email me personally for libre
hardware buying advice.
Hey I am curious are you from the middle east?

On 12/27/2017 02:49 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine, are
> the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?
>

4U always is recommended as you can use larger fans, with decent fans
and running fancontrol or the OpenBMC firmware on the KCMA-D8 and
KGPE-D16 they are almost silent and one can watch a film without complaint.

Coreboot doesn't do fan control so the fans are set at 100% thus one
needs to either one of those.

On 12/27/2017 09:05 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> I currently have an ASRock Z170 Pro4

> <https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157635>and an
> i7-6700k <https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117559>

> and I found it crashing from time to time for no particular reason, I might
> give the AMD Ryzen

> <https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113447&cm_re=Threadripper-_-19-113-447-_-Product>

> a chance but I'm not sure if it'll work better. I also have my eye out for
> the 2018 XPS 15 laptop which will come with 6 cores CPU; I'm honestly bit
> lost on what to choose for the best compatibility with Qubes. I prefer a
> laptop (if it's strong enough but also has to be light) and I can go with a
> Desktop if it would be the most compatible.

A KGPE-D16/KCMA-D8 for a server/workstation, or a Lenovo G505S for a
laptop would be the most compatible as they have a version of coreboot
with open source hardware init any problems can easily be fixed. You can
play games in a VM on all three via an attached graphics card (or an
EGPU for the laptop).

Honestly man I feel hurt that you want to get a ryzen or some new intel
laptop instead of a libre firmware supporting board :< why even ask for
advice if you don't wanna listen to the expert?

With a KGPE-D16 one can have 32 cores and 192GB RAM total for not much
money at all plus the OpenBMC libre secure remote management firmware -
it would be a lot better.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 12/27/2017 09:40 PM, cooloutac wrote:

> I would suggest, as advice I followed from qubes docs, is to just try to find a board that has a manual describing iommu/vt-d options as available. Preferably manual stating its on by default. The best of all scenarios being a manual that shows a picture of the option with it enabled.

That doesn't mean anything, I have bought two boards that had what you
describe and what do you know they didn't actually support it (and these
were server/embedded boards)
This is why one should purchase a board with libre firmware so any
issues can be fixed as I always suggest.

I also suggest not calling IOMMU "VT-d" as that makes people think it is
an intel only technology (AMD's is AMD-Vi - both should be referred to
by the generic name)

> I would also suggest something with a ps/2 port for your keyboard, and using a usb to ps/2 adapter for better security.

Stop giving out bad advice.
>>>>>>>> what you are doing can get people killed <<<<<<<<
Qubes is used by people in oppressive regimes where a single mistake
will end your life and the lives of your family.

As I have stated before PS/2 is the furthest thing from secure due to
leaks on the ground wire.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/161166/article.html
Ideally you would have more than one USB controller - and the
KCMA-D8/KGPE-D16 have two. One for keyboard and mouse one for USB flash
drives or what not and both without shared assets or board integrated
non removable devices such as the common setup on a laptop where there
is some silly no longer security updated "security" co-processor or what
not always hooked up to one of the USB controllers.


Look man I know what it was like to be your age and wanting approval,
wanting to be helpful even just when it comes to random people on the
internet but you gotta stop and let the experts handle tech support for
software like this.
Learn more and then please go help on a forum where the stakes are not
so high.

[cooloutac]

lmao. "CIA invented the word paranoid..." quote of the day... you are definitely libre thats for sure hahah.

So you mean it was enabled by default and shown with a picture in the manual, and it was a server board and it still didn't work. I'll have to take your word for it, because I would assume most server boards would work fine. I was referring to workstation boards and have had the opposite experience...

You troll me on the ps/2 thing alot. I'm giving out the same advice I have learned from Qubes docs and their forum posts. I think most users would disagree with you but maybe I'm wrong. Next you are going to tell me this is not a forum but a mailing list lol...

at least your posts are entertaining. most libre people are...

[cooloutac]

Just realized that you prefer to have mouse and kb on the same usb controller rather then using ps/2 port.

Who do you think is tapping the "ground wire" of your keyboard? Is it the CIA? hehe...

[cooloutac]

sorry for the spam I don't mean to make fun. Basically I can't see it being easier to exploit the ps/2 then usb. For one how can you spoof a device? And there is no other free ports, so can't have multiple devices.

It seems to me you should be more worried about the actual keyboard you are using then what board you are connecting it to. And then if we really want to get down to PARANOID. They might as well put listening devices in there as well as recording all your keystrokes lol. Maybe put a microscopic camera in your keyboard too.

Gaming keyboards are probably the most unsafe. lol I got one that has two usb wires, one to program the keyboard. I just never plug that one in, I'm actually still not sure whats its for lmao, but it still has macros and I wouldn't plug that keyboard into a machine with sensitive data.

[cooloutac]

All my workstation boards also have two controllers. one for the two usb ports next to the ps/2. I've always assumed for mouse and keyboard.

But I consider my sys-usb unsafe. And even if you use a separate vm for mouse and kb its still proxying and still used for the most sensitive tasks. I use a mouse proxy from sys-usb, only after following Mareks advice of having screenlock come on in a min or two so attacker doesn't have time to do anything. But I would never risk using a kb like that.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 12/27/2017 11:05 PM, cooloutac wrote:

> sorry for the spam I don't mean to make fun.

You only do that to yourself.

You are immature and you are going to get someone killed if you keep
this up.

> Basically I can't see it being easier to exploit the ps/2 then usb. For one how can you spoof a device? And there is no other free ports, so can't have multiple devices.

This is why I don't want you giving advice because you have absolutely
zero idea of what you are doing and you simply refuse to learn.

Someone in a third world country is going to get his disk password read
by the government hitmen in the basement of his apartment complex (read
the article I provided) and he is going to die because of all the
bullshit spun forth on this listserv, or (venezuela) his crypto-currency
will be stolen and he will be un-able to feed his family.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/10/bitcoin-mining-is-big-business-in-venezuela-but-the-government-wants-to-shut-it-down/
Why are you so naive? How can you not believe that this happens? People
are dying because they have poor security.

> It seems to me you should be more worried about the actual keyboard you are using then what board you are connecting it to.

Mine is made in the united states by a trustworthy company, and it
doesn't have re-writable memory as nearly every keyboard on the market does.

Money well spent as I will never have to purchase another one, already a
decade and a half old but it still looks good as new.

> And then if we really want to get down to PARANOID. They might as well put listening devices in there as well as recording all your keystrokes lol. Maybe put a microscopic camera in your keyboard too.
>

> Who do you think is tapping the "ground wire" of your keyboard? Is it the CIA? hehe...

This isn't about me - who lives in a safe and free western country -
this is about the people who you are giving dangerous advice to who for
all I know could be dissidents in one of the worlds less friendly places
to live.

On 12/27/2017 10:52 PM, cooloutac wrote:

> Just realized that you prefer to have mouse and kb on the same usb controller rather then using ps/2 port.

There isn't anything wrong with that, both are critical input devices
and can do near equally as much damage.
If you can't trust your keyboard and mouse you have already lost.

You seem to not have noticed that the developers mentioned a PS/2
internal *laptop* keyboard not a desktop keyboard (to avoid laptop USB
based attacks) - there is a large difference between the one in your
laptop and the one connected to a traditional port on a desktop the
protocol is the same but the physical characteristics of the cable are
different, most laptops lack a ground wire and one can simply unplug
from the wall if they do or obtain a ground removal plug.

[Marco Silva]

Sorry man, I have to be a bit blunt here, while using google search is cool it gives you no real understanding of hardware, My cpu's are E5-2667 V2 these are ivy-bridge architecture 22NM 4GHZ 8 cores/16 threads. Not the ones you linked (E5-2667 - Sandy bridge - 32NM 6 cores/12 threads) for starters Passmark is really poor benchmarking resource, and even in that site that lousy AMD is 10748 vs 10392 for the Intel six core cpu...imagine how bad it is really that cpu performance for desktop use...16 cores with same ipc of a raspberry pi :) They aren't even 16 cores it is 8 modules of 2 cores that share resources like FPU.

[cooloutac]

Its nice though that you trust your usb keyboard cause it was made in a free western country. What country is that again? If you say the USA i'll have to start laughing... Especially since you like to mention the CIA.

And you still haven't explained exactly what is done with the ground wire? How is information obtained, or how is it used to take over your pc? Enlighten us all, because I can't even find the common sense. It seems you aren't speaking from any real life or personal experience or even suspicions. If i'm wrong i'd like to know why you think so, without the name calling please, we could all benefit.

If someone has government hitmen trying to kill them, the last thing they should be doing is using a computer or going online. That would be my advice. I wouldn't be trying to sell them hardware. How do we know you are not a government spy? :)

Are you stalking me from some crazy libre land?

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

Thx for the tip, yea might not worth the $70 to buy used, I'll keep an eye out for RAM/CPU on eBay. BTW on the manual of the board, it says that I can go with <4 or >4 RAM sticks but from what you said so far, it sounded like I need to fill all the slots, is that necessary? I'm intending to get 8Gb a stick to fill 64Gb. I don't think I need more than that.

 

I am not on IRC but as always you can email me personally for libre
hardware buying advice.

Awesome, thx for the tip.

Hey I am curious are you from the middle east?

Yes, I'm originally from Lebanon, but I left a decade and half ago. I live now in the US.

On 12/27/2017 02:49 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine, are
> the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?
>
4U always is recommended as you can use larger fans, with decent fans
and running fancontrol or the OpenBMC firmware on the KCMA-D8 and
KGPE-D16 they are almost silent and one can watch a film without complaint.

Thx for the tip, I'll opt for OpenBMC in that case.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 12/28/2017 05:43 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> Thx for the tip, yea might not worth the $70 to buy used, I'll keep an eye
> out for RAM/CPU on eBay. BTW on the manual of the board, it says that I can
> go with <4 or >4 RAM sticks but from what you said so far, it sounded like
> I need to fill all the slots, is that necessary? I'm intending to get 8Gb a
> stick to fill 64Gb. I don't think I need more than that.

You need two sticks per CPU for dual channel, four per CPU for quad
channel (very slight performance improvement)
The life of board components is much shorter than

>> Hey I am curious are you from the middle east?
>>
>> Yes, I'm originally from Lebanon, but I left a decade and half ago. I live now in the US.

Oh neat.
It is so sad whats happening in that area, so many people and so much
cultural heritage sites gone just because of a difference in
ideology....my I can't believe some people still think the black outfit
scumbag unit just showed up out of a mirage in the desert like magic.

> On 12/27/2017 02:49 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
>>> I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine,
>> are
>>> the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?
>>>
>> 4U always is recommended as you can use larger fans, with decent fans
>> and running fancontrol or the OpenBMC firmware on the KCMA-D8 and
>> KGPE-D16 they are almost silent and one can watch a film without complaint.
>>
> Thx for the tip, I'll opt for OpenBMC in that case.

If you want this make sure your vendor is selling your the KGPE-D16 with
the ASMB module so you don't have to buy it later, it should say it in
the SKU title.

[Sandy Harris]

> I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay $80/ea
> for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a 6386SE for
> that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the "protection plan"
> for anything either its a waste of money.

That may be good advice, but there's another point of view. A couple
of decades back I worked in a computer store & saw many instances of a
pattern I found really irritating.

As customer comes in and asks about prices on various things, comes
back & buys a CPU from me because we have it a bit cheaper than
elsewhere. He gets the board across the street since they are cheaper
for that & RAM in a third shop. He goes home, puts it all together &
it does not work. So, then he comes back to me claiming the CPU is
dead. Our technician pulls it out, tests in another board & says it is
fine. Now he wants us to make it work in his board & gets upset when I
tell him "fine, but we'll charge for the technician time to do that."
He storms off to hassle the people who sold him the board.

Any of the stores where he got parts -- CPU, cooler, board & RAM --
would happily have sold him all four as an assembled & tested system
for not much more than he paid for his pile of parts. This would have
saved quite a bit of time for him & saved shop staff time &
irritation.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

Well hey now that you said that I think I am just going to throw away 10
years of what works, maybe I will go buy some pre-built optiplex from
dell and tell everyone else to do the same - after all for an extra
twenty euro they will give you a "disabled" ME and I am sure the massive
markup over parts cost is worth it for a "tested working properly"
system right?

What exactly are you trying to say here? That either one of us are
idiots like the man in your example? Here we have you another guy who
doesn't give real advice only criticizes others who do.

[cooloutac]

I think he is saying people get burned, and I have had the same experience when ordering online or buying used parts. I wouldn't even think about trusting ebay, I don't even trust amazon for computer parts anymore.
Tiger Direct has burned me more times than I can count. I've gotten wrong parts, parts that don't work. Its a nightmare.

Nowadays I only buy my parts from Microcenter directly off the shelf at the store. Or If its a hard to find item only "new" from newegg.com, verifying the genuine sticker is in there, or it goes back...

sure maybe ram or the cpu will not be tampered with. But what is the return policy like on ebay when it doesn't work? Forget about a damage claim if something happens.

I agree there is no reason to buy a protection plan from a store. But you definitely want that manufacturer warranty. Everything in my system has at least 3 year warranty for peace of mind.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 5:19 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

On 12/28/2017 05:43 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> Thx for the tip, yea might not worth the $70 to buy used, I'll keep an eye
> out for RAM/CPU on eBay. BTW on the manual of the board, it says that I can
> go with <4 or >4 RAM sticks but from what you said so far, it sounded like
> I need to fill all the slots, is that necessary? I'm intending to get 8Gb a
> stick to fill 64Gb. I don't think I need more than that.
You need two sticks per CPU for dual channel, four per CPU for quad
channel (very slight performance improvement)

Thanks for the tip.

The life of board components is much shorter than
>> Hey I am curious are you from the middle east?
>>
>> Yes, I'm originally from Lebanon, but I left a decade and half ago. I live now in the US.
Oh neat.
It is so sad whats happening in that area, so many people and so much
cultural heritage sites gone just because of a difference in
ideology....my I can't believe some people still think the black outfit
scumbag unit just showed up out of a mirage in the desert like magic.

Yes, it's aweful, it got me depressed for many years, history just keep repeating itself :(

 

> On 12/27/2017 02:49 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
>>> I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine,
>> are
>>> the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?
>>>
>> 4U always is recommended as you can use larger fans, with decent fans
>> and running fancontrol or the OpenBMC firmware on the KCMA-D8 and
>> KGPE-D16 they are almost silent and one can watch a film without complaint.
>>
> Thx for the tip, I'll opt for OpenBMC in that case.
If you want this make sure your vendor is selling your the KGPE-D16 with
the ASMB module so you don't have to buy it later, it should say it in
the SKU title.

I couldn't find one with the module, is the module really needed?

Also, what do you think about this CPU fan https://www.ebay.com/itm/Noctua-NH-U12DO-A3/332385518775? It'll end up $87 ea, on Newegg it's $129 each. I'm going with this CPU https://www.ebay.com/itm/332501959819, the person selling is near me. I couldn't find a 6380SE for less than $150. I'm looking right now for the case, there are so many out there but I'm going to focus on a 4U case with 120mm fans.

What GPU do you have? I don't plan to purchase it now, but I would love to be able to play some games sometime in the future.

I'm wondering, which state are you in?

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

I found two 6386 https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-AMD-Opteron-6386-OS6386YETGGHK-16-Core-2-8GHz-Socket-G34-CPU-TQ1488/122885384670 also is near me, I'll contact the seller to see if I can pick it up.

[Tom Zander]

On Friday, 29 December 2017 19:23:01 CET Tai...@gmx.com wrote:
> I am sure the massive
> markup over parts cost is worth it for a "tested working properly"
> system right?

Yes. Yes it is.

--
Tom Zander
Blog: https://zander.github.io
Vlog: https://vimeo.com/channels/tomscryptochannel

[Tai...@gmx.com]

Those dual 6386 are a good price I would get them if I was you, there
will always be plenty of buyers if you want to sell the second one.

The KGPE-D16 almost always comes with the module so don't worry - btw
MSRP is $415 for brand new KGPE-D16 so don't overpay.

Yeah that cooler is the one to get for the 140W CPU's, pricey but I am
not aware of any others.
https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12do-a3
https://noctua.at/en/noctua-intros-new-amd-opteron-coolers-with-g34-support
MSRP USD 64.90 (7 years ago)

[Sandy Harris]

On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 2:23 AM, Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 12/29/2017 12:01 PM, Sandy Harris wrote:

>> That may be good advice, but there's another point of view. ...

> What exactly are you trying to say here? That either one of us are idiots
> like the man in your example?

No,only that it is worth considering factors other than price. My
example is extreme, but I think a fair number of people lack the
expertise or tools to assemble & test a system themselves, or don't
want the possib, or would rather spend money than their time. They
would be better off buying tested sub-systems.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

Those dual 6386 are a good price I would get them if I was you, there
will always be plenty of buyers if you want to sell the second one.

Ok got the CPU and the cooler. I'm struggling to find a good case. There are plenty of choice, and since this would be my first server case build, I'm not sure what to look for. For example, here's newegg search for 4U cases having EEB keyword (no EEB filter offered), this case seems cheap enough https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020 but has 80mm fans in the middle, not 120mm. I've seen a few cases with 120mm mid-fans but did not support EEB. Do you have a link for a case you work with?

The KGPE-D16 almost always comes with the module so don't worry - btw
MSRP is $415 for brand new KGPE-D16 so don't overpay.

Awesome, I'll order the board now then and hopefully will have the module.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 12/29/2017 10:28 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Those dual 6386 are a good price I would get them if I was you, there
>> will always be plenty of buyers if you want to sell the second one.
>>
> Ok got the CPU and the cooler.

Man dual 6386, that is gonna be one speed demon :D lucky bastard!

> I'm struggling to find a good case.

If you have the money I would get a supermicro 4U case, they are nice
(one that comes with front drive trays preferably)

> There
> are plenty of choice, and since this would be my first server case build,
> I'm not sure what to look for. For example, here's newegg search

> <https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008044&IsNodeId=1&Description=4u%20case&bop=And&SrchInDesc=EEB&Page=1&PageSize=36&order=BESTMATCH>

> for 4U cases having EEB keyword (no EEB filter offered), this case seems
> cheap enough
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020 but has
> 80mm fans in the middle, not 120mm. I've seen a few cases with 120mm
> mid-fans but did not support EEB. Do you have a link for a case you work
> with?

My case is a shorter model 80mil in the back 120 for both front drive
bays no room for middle fans.

That case seems fine, although can you tell me the price and shipping? I
can't see it as I browse with JS off.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:53 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

On 12/29/2017 10:28 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Those dual 6386 are a good price I would get them if I was you, there
>> will always be plenty of buyers if you want to sell the second one.
>>
> Ok got the CPU and the cooler.
Man dual 6386, that is gonna be one speed demon :D lucky bastard!

It'll be awesome.

>   I'm struggling to find a good case.
If you have the money I would get a supermicro 4U case, they are nice
(one that comes with front drive trays preferably)

I couldn't find a Supermicro that's compatible with EEB, is E-ATX the same as EEB? It has the same dimensions, but I think it has different mounting screws right?

>   There
> are plenty of choice, and since this would be my first server case build,
> I'm not sure what to look for. For example, here's newegg search
> <https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008044&IsNodeId=1&Description=4u%20case&bop=And&SrchInDesc=EEB&Page=1&PageSize=36&order=BESTMATCH>
> for 4U cases having EEB keyword (no EEB filter offered), this case seems
> cheap enough
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020 but has
> 80mm fans in the middle, not 120mm. I've seen a few cases with 120mm
> mid-fans but did not support EEB. Do you have a link for a case you work
> with?
My case is a shorter model 80mil in the back 120 for both front drive
bays no room for middle fans.

That case seems fine, although can you tell me the price and shipping? I
can't see it as I browse with JS off.

That case is $86.99 free shipping.

For the power supply, what do you think of this one https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817338110 (sells for 119.99 + 4.99 shipping). Do you have an example for the power supply with modular cables?

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

Actually, the above power supply wouldn't work (the board requires 24pin, and I need about 700W. I found this one https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAD245CD7980 for $316, quite pricy for a PSU, any suggestion?

What do you recommand for the TPM module?

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

This is even better https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817153218 for $280 but it does not seem to come with 2 EPS (even though I see +12V1 and +12V2. I think one is EPS and another one is ATX. I read on coreboot that adapters can catch on fire, but not sure if that applies here as my understanding is adapters if for hooking up both CPUs in parallel. What do you think?

[awokd]

On Thu, January 4, 2018 2:34 am, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
> This is even better
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16817153218 for $280
> but it does not seem to come with 2 EPS (even though I see +12V1 and
> +12V2.
> I think one is EPS and another one is ATX. I read on coreboot that
> adapters can catch on fire, but not sure if that applies here as my
> understanding is adapters if for hooking up both CPUs in parallel. What do
> you think?

Sorry Wael, can't make a hardware recommendation there but to address
something Taiidan said further upthread about PS2 keyboards and ground
wires:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/161166/article.html
Their work only applies to older, PS/2 keyboards, but the data they get is
"pretty good," they say. On these keyboards, "the data cable is so close
to the ground cable, the emanations from the data cable leak onto the
ground cable, which acts as an antenna," Barisani said.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

I read a bit more on M/B connectors and https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153218&ignorebbr=1 has one EPS (8 pin) and one ATX (8 pin as well), so it's all good.

Taiidan, what GPU do you use? The board has only a VGA, which is OK for setting it up, but I want to run a 1080p widescreen (one, for now, more for later. I have a GeForce GTX 760 laying around, would it work? It says required PCI-E 3 and the board has PCI-E 2 so probably not, but would be good to know.

[cooloutac]

TY again for your posts! Sounds like someone has to be in the same room. I did hear about this on Steve Gibsons podcast a while ago from some college kids research who did it successfully. but guess I didn't think of it as something practical.

"The researchers found a way to sniff USB keyboards, but older PS/2 keyboards, which have ground wires that connect right into the electric grid, were the best."

And so they can still sniff usb keyboards apparently. And contrary to what Tai believes, it also works on laptops...

Still think its not something to worry about unless in a public setting, and even still probaby very uncommon.

Then again, the government agent can break into your home and place a device. But I always say in that case, you have way more other problems to worry about, and they have more practical devices to put in your home. At that point they might as well use a camera and just watch your keystrokes.

[cooloutac]

EVGA is my fav brand for psu's.

[cooloutac]

hmm, they do say they can get readings from electrical sockets on a power grid. That sounds like it can be done remotely. nuts.

They keep stressing "on older ps/2 keyboards" though which makes me wonder if its as practical for newer hardware. Newer cell phones emit more radiation then older ones, wonder if its the opposite for computer hardware? I still think using lasers is probably the most practical, and for that you have to have line of sight. Even for accurate wireless data they are around 60 feet away.

But I guess to sum it up, if the government assassin is after you... DON"T USE A KEYBOARD AT ALL> THEY ARE ALL BAD.

[awokd]

On Fri, January 5, 2018 8:17 pm, cooloutac wrote:

> But I guess to sum it up, if the government assassin is after you...
> DON"T USE A KEYBOARD AT ALL> THEY ARE ALL BAD.

Unless it's a model M. Those can serve a double purpose in both shielding
from bullets and in beating the assassin with it.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 11:52 AM cooloutac <raah...@gmail.com> wrote:

EVGA is my fav brand for psu's.

Thanks for the tip, Here's my final list of parts:

- Case: https://goo.gl/ethkyC

- PSU: https://goo.gl/DAvHH8

- Motherboard: https://goo.gl/iG3Xia

- CPU: https://goo.gl/HxjKPi

- CPU Cooling: https://goo.gl/Fs3Rck

- RAM: https://goo.gl/UsCYPB

- TPM: https://goo.gl/bpMZsp

I'm still missing a GPU as I need to run a couple of 1080p monitors, I see on ebay quite a bit (and quite cheap) AMD GPUs here[0], I haven't owned a Radeon before, any suggestions?

[0]: https://goo.gl/qSc56M

[awokd]

On Fri, January 5, 2018 9:52 pm, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> I'm still missing a GPU as I need to run a couple of 1080p monitors, I
> see on ebay quite a bit (and quite cheap) AMD GPUs here[0], I haven't
> owned a Radeon before, any suggestions?

I know a bit about Radeons at least. Suggest making sure it's on at least
one of these lists in case you ever decide to try passthrough, and try to
not get one that's been burnt out mining coins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOMMU-supporting_hardware#AMD
http://www.overclock.net/t/1307834/xen-vga-passthrough-compatible-graphics-adapters
https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_VGA_Passthrough_Tested_Adapters#ATI.2FAMD_display_adapters

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

Thanks, got the last piece of the puzzle https://goo.gl/2i5vHe

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 01/04/2018 01:23 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> I read a bit more on M/B connectors and
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153218&ignorebbr=1
> has one EPS (8 pin) and one ATX (8 pin as well), so it's all good.
>
> Taiidan, what GPU do you use? The board has only a VGA, which is OK for
> setting it up, but I want to run a 1080p widescreen (one, for now, more for
> later. I have a GeForce GTX 760

> <https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-760/specifications>laying

> around, would it work? It says required PCI-E 3 and the board has PCI-E 2
> so probably not, but would be good to know.

Hmm curious is this your first time building a PC? :0 I thought you had
done this before? All PCI-e stuff is backwards and forwards compatible I
would get this all set up before you buy a newer GFX card - that one
will work fine for now.

Hey when you get this let me know if you need any help setting up VM
gaming it is very difficult but very rewarding.
One gotcha I have noticed is NUMA alignment, each 16 core CPU contains
two NUMA nodes and performance will suffer greatly if things are not
properly aligned (gets tricker in VM's too)

TPM:
I am not sure about TPM's I would call ASUS and ask for a board
compatible part number.

Newegg Links:
I can't view newegg links, you would have to find a OEM link to show me.
I would get a 1KW PSU from a reputable company, like I said dual EPS12V,
modular and japanese capacitors is what you want.

Case Price - no more than $200 unless it includes nice front HDD hot
swap bays - Don't use the PSU that comes with the case.

I would also get front drive bay HDD enclosures that have a fan
otherwise your drives will get hot inside the case and be a pain to service.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:57 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

On 01/04/2018 01:23 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> I read a bit more on M/B connectors and
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153218&ignorebbr=1
> has one EPS (8 pin) and one ATX (8 pin as well), so it's all good.
>
> Taiidan, what GPU do you use? The board has only a VGA, which is OK for
> setting it up, but I want to run a 1080p widescreen (one, for now, more for
> later. I have a GeForce GTX 760
> <https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-760/specifications>laying
> around, would it work? It says required PCI-E 3 and the board has PCI-E 2
> so probably not, but would be good to know.
Hmm curious is this your first time building a PC? :0 I thought you had
done this before? All PCI-e stuff is backwards and forwards compatible I
would get this all set up before you buy a newer GFX card - that one
will work fine for now.

I did build PCs before, but that was literarly a life time ago (early 2000's), and since then, I've been with laptops. I was aware of PCI-e compatibility, but I did not know to what degree the difference in speed might affect the GPU. Would a GTX 1080 work for instance?

 

Hey when you get this let me know if you need any help setting up VM
gaming it is very difficult but very rewarding.
One gotcha I have noticed is NUMA alignment, each 16 core CPU contains
two NUMA nodes and performance will suffer greatly if things are not
properly aligned (gets tricker in VM's too)

I will definitely do that.

TPM:
I am not sure about TPM's I would call ASUS and ask for a board
compatible part number.

I might have to return the one I got then, it's a Gigabyte TPM module.

 

Newegg Links:
I can't view newegg links, you would have to find a OEM link to show me.
I would get a 1KW PSU from a reputable company, like I said dual EPS12V,
modular and japanese capacitors is what you want.

 

I got this one, https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1

 

Case Price - no more than $200 unless it includes nice front HDD hot
swap bays - Don't use the PSU that comes with the case.

Unfortunately, it ended up closer to 400. I got this one http://www.norcotek.com/product/rpc-4220/ it was difficult finding EEB cases. Depending on the noise it makes, there's a braket that I can switch in it to change the 4 80mm fans with 3 120mm fans. In anycase, I wanted a case that has wide support for boards (CEB, EEB, ATX and mini ATX) so later on I can update the components and not have to reinvenst in the case.

 

I would also get front drive bay HDD enclosures that have a fan
otherwise your drives will get hot inside the case and be a pain to service.

this one does not have a fan, I'll add a braket if I see a need, but I think it'll be alright with the 6 fans it has.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 01/07/2018 12:14 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:57 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On 01/04/2018 01:23 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
>>
>>> I read a bit more on M/B connectors and
>>>
>> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153218&ignorebbr=1
>>> has one EPS (8 pin) and one ATX (8 pin as well), so it's all good.
>>>
>>> Taiidan, what GPU do you use? The board has only a VGA, which is OK for
>>> setting it up, but I want to run a 1080p widescreen (one, for now, more
>> for
>>> later. I have a GeForce GTX 760
>>> <
>> https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-760/specifications
>>> laying
>>> around, would it work? It says required PCI-E 3 and the board has PCI-E 2
>>> so probably not, but would be good to know.
>> Hmm curious is this your first time building a PC? :0 I thought you had
>> done this before? All PCI-e stuff is backwards and forwards compatible I
>> would get this all set up before you buy a newer GFX card - that one
>> will work fine for now.
>>
> I did build PCs before, but that was literarly a life time ago (early
> 2000's), and since then, I've been with laptops. I was aware of PCI-e
> compatibility, but I did not know to what degree the difference in speed
> might affect the GPU. Would a GTX 1080 work for instance?

There is no real difference between 3.0 and 2.0 even with 4K, Crossfire
and the latest cards so having v2.0 is fine.
As I have stated before nvidia is a bad company and you shouldn't buy
from them, they do not support owner-control, actively hinder linux
driver development and VM gaming.

Don't forget your board standoffs, and don't confuse the PCI-e power
cables with EPS12V.
Since it has been a long time you should brush up and watch some vids
from reputable places, you gotta be careful considering how much $$$ you
have spent :]

>> Hey when you get this let me know if you need any help setting up VM
>> gaming it is very difficult but very rewarding.
>> One gotcha I have noticed is NUMA alignment, each 16 core CPU contains
>> two NUMA nodes and performance will suffer greatly if things are not
>> properly aligned (gets tricker in VM's too)
>>
>>
>> I will definitely do that.

I eagerly await your gaming benchmarks, there are several triple A games
out there that support 16 cores and you must try them.

>> TPM:
>> I am not sure about TPM's I would call ASUS and ask for a board
>> compatible part number.
>>
>> I might have to return the one I got then, it's a Gigabyte TPM module.

Like I said call and ask asus what model number you need for the board.

Ideally you could simply use whatever same-generation of TPM (board is
v1.2 not v2.0) as it uses a simple LPC bus for communication but you
might as well buy whatever asus tells you to so to avoid trouble.
Coreboot devs tested with asus's infineon brand TPM.
I assume you have bought a TPM 2.0, if so that definitely won't work.

>> Newegg Links:
>> I can't view newegg links, you would have to find a OEM link to show me.
>> I would get a 1KW PSU from a reputable company, like I said dual EPS12V,
>> modular and japanese capacitors is what you want.
>>
>>
> I got this one, https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1

I usually don't recommend evga as I don't like companies who sell both
good and bad products (their lower end stuff is crappy) but that seems
fine, good reviews japanese caps and a nice 10 year warranty.

>> Case Price - no more than $200 unless it includes nice front HDD hot
>> swap bays - Don't use the PSU that comes with the case.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it ended up closer to 400. I got this one
> http://www.norcotek.com/product/rpc-4220/ it was difficult finding EEB
> cases. Depending on the noise it makes, there's a braket that I can switch
> in it to change the 4 80mm fans with 3 120mm fans. In anycase, I wanted a
> case that has wide support for boards (CEB, EEB, ATX and mini ATX) so later
> on I can update the components and not have to reinvenst in the case.

Nice case, pricey but with an HBA or RAID card you can install all the
drives you'll ever want.
It has good reviews that mention the high quality, good choice!

>> I would also get front drive bay HDD enclosures that have a fan
>> otherwise your drives will get hot inside the case and be a pain to
>> service.
>>
> this one does not have a fan, I'll add a braket if I see a need, but I
> think it'll be alright with the 6 fans it has.

Yeah you sure will, since the bays came with the case you won't need
additional cooling as they have already taken care of that (with the
assorted case fans)

Send me links, titles, prices and used/new status for the rest of the
stuff you got and I can look it over.

[cooloutac]

Just remembered the snowden documentary, when he would type the password into his laptop covering it and his head with a blanket. Maybe we should all do that? Then they really would need to catch the electrical or radiation frequencies lol.
@Wael, Thats a sweet PSU you picked. EVGA doesn't make lower end ones. I think Tai was thinking of corsair, which I would never recommend to anybody.

A Corsair PSU once died on me after a year. One of the C models. And the hdd and gpu got killed. Whats crazy is for a year I thought i was getting hacked and was going nuts, turns out it the psu must of been failing after 3 months and I never suspected it.

I filed a claim with them. They said nothing was wrong with the PSU or GPU. I told them thats impossible, because I had to replace the psu to get my board to post lol. and I flipped out.

Long story short, They paid for my hdd. But Stole my GPU, literally, stole the fkn thing and refused to give it back. They claimed they didn't know where it was. They probably reflashed it and gave it to their kid. Now that I think about it I should of called the police! On top of that they sent me two bad PSU's before they sent me a good one. I swear it. The first replacement immediately started smoking on me as if they sent me a bad psu on purpose just to fk with me!!! Because when they told me nothing was wrong with the psu, I told the guy his engineers are frauds. And The only reason they paid for the HDD is after I complained they stole my GPU and I was out a hdd.

The last GPU they sent me only lasted 2 years and stopped working out of nowhere with no warning signs.

Corsair has crap quality control, and evil engineers. EVGA on the other hand, is the best quality in PSU's I've ever seen, no matter the model. I've also had cheap psu's not work properly with a ups, but never the case with an evga psu. I hate to sound like a shrill, but noone comes close to them in the psu market. There is no comparison.

[cooloutac]

I also would never buy corsair ram. fk that company. My fav brand is G.Skill.

And ram is also backwards compatible when comes to frequencies. And when using a lower frequency you can always lower timings, and still have it in case you upgrade to higher frequency board in future.

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 01/08/2018 11:34 AM, cooloutac wrote:

> Corsair has crap quality control, and evil engineers. EVGA on the other hand, is the best quality in PSU's I've ever seen, no matter the model. I've also had cheap psu's not work properly with a ups, but never the case with an evga psu. I hate to sound like a shrill, but noone comes close to them in the psu market. There is no comparison.

So I take it you purchase a large amount of hardware for an institution
and thus have more than anecdotal evidence?

Or you have removed the PSU cover (DANGEROUS - DO NOT DO THIS) and
examined the quality of components and quality of the assembly process?

On 01/08/2018 11:44 AM, cooloutac wrote:

> I also would never buy corsair ram. fk that company. My fav brand is G.Skill.

Neither company makes or assembles RAM or power supplies - they are
simply re-branders of OEM white label products.

Even companies like PNY with real factories (see their website, it is in
new jersey america) are not really making "RAM" they are simply a pick
and place operation that assembles PCB's - there are only a few
manufacturers of memory chips in the world, those chips are then bought
by companies who assemble PCB's.

[Wael M. Nasreddine]

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 11:23 AM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:

On 01/07/2018 12:14 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:57 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
> I did build PCs before, but that was literarly a life time ago (early
> 2000's), and since then, I've been with laptops. I was aware of PCI-e
> compatibility, but I did not know to what degree the difference in speed
> might affect the GPU. Would a GTX 1080 work for instance?
There is no real difference between 3.0 and 2.0 even with 4K, Crossfire
and the latest cards so having v2.0 is fine.
As I have stated before nvidia is a bad company and you shouldn't buy
from them, they do not support owner-control, actively hinder linux
driver development and VM gaming.

Good to know, thanks Taiidan. In that case, it's good that I got myself an AMD Radeon HD 6950 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Radeon-HD-6950-2GB-GDDR5-PCIe-Video-Graphics-Card-Dell-PN-1643M/272894243766), I'll use this one as primary, and I'll wait till the price of the Vega comes down, I have my eye on RX Vega 64.

Don't forget your board standoffs, and don't confuse the PCI-e power
cables with EPS12V.
Since it has been a long time you should brush up and watch some vids
from reputable places, you gotta be careful considering how much $$$ you
have spent :]

 Will do.

>> Hey when you get this let me know if you need any help setting up VM
>> gaming it is very difficult but very rewarding.
>> One gotcha I have noticed is NUMA alignment, each 16 core CPU contains
>> two NUMA nodes and performance will suffer greatly if things are not
>> properly aligned (gets tricker in VM's too)

 

Are you talking about alignment of RAM? The KGPE-D16 specifies the RAM order in the manual (http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketG34(1944)/KGPE-D16/Menual_QVL/E8847_KGPE-D16.pdf page 2-17).

 

>>
>>
>> I will definitely do that.
I eagerly await your gaming benchmarks, there are several triple A games
out there that support 16 cores and you must try them.
>> TPM:
>> I am not sure about TPM's I would call ASUS and ask for a board
>> compatible part number.
>>
>> I might have to return the one I got then, it's a Gigabyte TPM module.
Like I said call and ask asus what model number you need for the board.

Ideally you could simply use whatever same-generation of TPM (board is
v1.2 not v2.0) as it uses a simple LPC bus for communication but you
might as well buy whatever asus tells you to so to avoid trouble.
Coreboot devs tested with asus's infineon brand TPM.
I assume you have bought a TPM 2.0, if so that definitely won't work.

I'm aware that Linux does not support TPM 2.0 so I did order a TPM v1.2. I'll give ASUS a call to confirm it works.

>> Newegg Links:
>> I can't view newegg links, you would have to find a OEM link to show me.
>> I would get a 1KW PSU from a reputable company, like I said dual EPS12V,
>> modular and japanese capacitors is what you want.
>>
>>
> I got this one, https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1
I usually don't recommend evga as I don't like companies who sell both
good and bad products (their lower end stuff is crappy) but that seems
fine, good reviews japanese caps and a nice 10 year warranty.

>> Case Price - no more than $200 unless it includes nice front HDD hot
>> swap bays - Don't use the PSU that comes with the case.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it ended up closer to 400. I got this one
> http://www.norcotek.com/product/rpc-4220/ it was difficult finding EEB
> cases. Depending on the noise it makes, there's a braket that I can switch
> in it to change the 4 80mm fans with 3 120mm fans. In anycase, I wanted a
> case that has wide support for boards (CEB, EEB, ATX and mini ATX) so later
> on I can update the components and not have to reinvenst in the case.
Nice case, pricey but with an HBA or RAID card you can install all the
drives you'll ever want.
It has good reviews that mention the high quality, good choice!

Thanks.

>> I would also get front drive bay HDD enclosures that have a fan
>> otherwise your drives will get hot inside the case and be a pain to
>> service.
>>
> this one does not have a fan, I'll add a braket if I see a need, but I
> think it'll be alright with the 6 fans it has.
Yeah you sure will, since the bays came with the case you won't need
additional cooling as they have already taken care of that (with the
assorted case fans)

Send me links, titles, prices and used/new status for the rest of the
stuff you got and I can look it over.

 

Sure, here's the same list with direct OEM links, BTW you can just use curl to get the 302 location of the links without having to use the browser for them :)

 

- Case: http://www.norcotek.com/product/rpc-4220/ new

- PSU: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1 new

- Motherboard: KGPE-D16 new (opened box though) $270

- CPU: 2x https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-AMD-Opteron-6386-OS6386YETGGHK-16-Core-2-8GHz-Socket-G34-CPU-TQ1488/122885384670 $200 used

- CPU Cooling: 2x https://www.ebay.com/itm/Noctua-NH-U12DO-A3/332385518775 new

- RAM: https://www.ebay.com/itm/32GB-4X8GB-DDR3-1600MHz-ECC-REG-MEMORY-FOR-ASRock-EP2C602-4L-D16-SSI-EEB-Server/162349088753 $200 for 64Gb

- TPM: Gigabyte GC-TPM (can't find OEM link, but I have a feeling that I'll be replacing it anyway).

- GPU: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Radeon-HD-6950-2GB-GDDR5-PCIe-Video-Graphics-Card-Dell-PN-1643M/272894243766 refurbished $70

[Tai...@gmx.com]

On 01/08/2018 01:37 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 11:23 AM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On 01/07/2018 12:14 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:57 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>> I did build PCs before, but that was literarly a life time ago (early
>>> 2000's), and since then, I've been with laptops. I was aware of PCI-e
>>> compatibility, but I did not know to what degree the difference in speed
>>> might affect the GPU. Would a GTX 1080 work for instance?
>> There is no real difference between 3.0 and 2.0 even with 4K, Crossfire
>> and the latest cards so having v2.0 is fine.
>> As I have stated before nvidia is a bad company and you shouldn't buy
>> from them, they do not support owner-control, actively hinder linux
>> driver development and VM gaming.
>>
> Good to know, thanks Taiidan. In that case, it's good that I got myself an
> AMD Radeon HD 6950 (
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Radeon-HD-6950-2GB-GDDR5-PCIe-Video-Graphics-Card-Dell-PN-1643M/272894243766),
> I'll use this one as primary, and I'll wait till the price of the Vega
> comes down, I have my eye on RX Vega 64.

I would have advised purchasing a lower power single slot fanless model
for your primary video - as that is dual slot you will be wasting one of
your PCI-e slots.
You can still use that 760 and it would work fine, I just wouldn't buy
any more nvidia cards.

> Are you talking about alignment of RAM?

No. NUMA is software - look up NUMA alignment. This is generally
automatic if you run numad in your OS - you only have to configure it if
you are running for instance a gaming VM with libvirt.

>
> Sure, here's the same list with direct OEM links, BTW you can just use curl
> to get the 302 location of the links without having to use the browser for
> them :)
>
> - Case: http://www.norcotek.com/product/rpc-4220/ new
> - PSU: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1 new
> - Motherboard: KGPE-D16 new (opened box though) $270

Open box is definitely worth it for that great price.

[awokd]

On Mon, January 8, 2018 6:44 pm, Tai...@gmx.com wrote:

> I would have advised purchasing a lower power single slot fanless model
> for your primary video - as that is dual slot you will be wasting one of
> your PCI-e slots. You can still use that 760 and it would work fine, I
> just wouldn't buy any more nvidia cards.

I tried a single slot fanless and under 3.2 at least it made everything
very slow, even booting up VMs for some reason. Might have just been my
bad luck, but I think it's good to have some speed for primary video.

[cooloutac]

qubes doesn't really use much of the video card. It could make the desktop smoother though if using alot of effects.

I mean if we really cared about security, I guess we wouldn't use a gui. Especially if we want to type in commands in a terminal anyways. I guess it depends on your "security model" lmao...

@Tai, have you ever used trisquel? learning about fsf software I really fell in love with their gnome-flashback desktop and deblobbed fsf kernel.

[cooloutac]

NICE! let us know how it goes. GL