Should the footer at the bottom of the mailing list be deleted?
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Demi Marie Obenour
Mar 9, 2022, 4:25:19 PM3/9/22
to Qubes OS Users Mailing List
The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
--
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
--
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
Demi Marie Obenour
Mar 9, 2022, 4:33:53 PM3/9/22
to Qubes OS Users Mailing List
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Hash: SHA256
On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 04:25:11PM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
Looks like Google mangles the message in other ways, too. In my case,
the charset is changed from us-ascii to UTF-8, and the
Content-Transfer-Encoding header is removed, with the `=20` at the end
of one line being replaced by a space. So the only solutions are either
inline PGP or to switch list hosting solutions.
- --
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On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 04:25:11PM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
the charset is changed from us-ascii to UTF-8, and the
Content-Transfer-Encoding header is removed, with the `=20` at the end
of one line being replaced by a space. So the only solutions are either
inline PGP or to switch list hosting solutions.
- --
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
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Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
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Andrew David Wong
Mar 9, 2022, 9:19:26 PM3/9/22
to Demi Marie Obenour, Qubes OS Users Mailing List
On 3/9/22 1:25 PM, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
As far as I can tell from examining the settings interface, it can't be
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
entirely removed or entirely replaced with an empty string. Google
Groups will not allow it.
--
Andrew David Wong
Community Manager
The Qubes OS Project
https://www.qubes-os.org
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Mar 9, 2022, 9:46:59 PM3/9/22
to Andrew David Wong, Demi Marie Obenour, Qubes OS Users Mailing List
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On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 06:19:16PM -0800, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 3/9/22 1:25 PM, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
>
> As far as I can tell from examining the settings interface, it can't be
> entirely removed or entirely replaced with an empty string. Google Groups
> will not allow it.
And to be honest, I think some kind of automatic footer with basic ML
> On 3/9/22 1:25 PM, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
>
> As far as I can tell from examining the settings interface, it can't be
> entirely removed or entirely replaced with an empty string. Google Groups
> will not allow it.
info is a good thing. I am on a few ML that don't have it, and every now
and then somebody sends an email _to the list_ asking how to
unsubscribe...
Having a link to the message in the footer is also convenient sometimes.
Google used to put the footer in a separate mime part, which was
compatible with signatures, but they changed it. I have no idea what
other (non-self-hosted) providers do.
- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
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Demi Marie Obenour
Mar 10, 2022, 1:18:57 AM3/10/22
to Marek Marczykowski-Górecki, Andrew David Wong, Qubes OS Users Mailing List
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Hash: SHA256
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 03:46:53AM +0100, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 06:19:16PM -0800, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> > On 3/9/22 1:25 PM, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
> >
> > As far as I can tell from examining the settings interface, it can't be
> > entirely removed or entirely replaced with an empty string. Google Groups
> > will not allow it.
>
> And to be honest, I think some kind of automatic footer with basic ML
> info is a good thing. I am on a few ML that don't have it, and every now
> and then somebody sends an email _to the list_ asking how to
> unsubscribe...
> Having a link to the message in the footer is also convenient sometimes.
> Google used to put the footer in a separate mime part, which was
> compatible with signatures, but they changed it. I have no idea what
> other (non-self-hosted) providers do.
Why did Google make this change? Has anyone complained to them about
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 06:19:16PM -0800, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> > On 3/9/22 1:25 PM, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
> >
> > As far as I can tell from examining the settings interface, it can't be
> > entirely removed or entirely replaced with an empty string. Google Groups
> > will not allow it.
>
> And to be honest, I think some kind of automatic footer with basic ML
> info is a good thing. I am on a few ML that don't have it, and every now
> and then somebody sends an email _to the list_ asking how to
> unsubscribe...
> Having a link to the message in the footer is also convenient sometimes.
> Google used to put the footer in a separate mime part, which was
> compatible with signatures, but they changed it. I have no idea what
> other (non-self-hosted) providers do.
it?
- --
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
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Sven Semmler
Mar 10, 2022, 1:20:19 AM3/10/22
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
On 3/9/22 20:46, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> Having a link to the message in the footer is also convenient sometimes.
e.g. when processing HCL reports ;-)
> Having a link to the message in the footer is also convenient sometimes.
/Sven
--
public key: https://www.svensemmler.org/2A632C537D744BC7.asc
fingerprint: DA59 75C9 ABC4 0C83 3B2F 620B 2A63 2C53 7D74 4BC7
Peter Funk
Mar 10, 2022, 6:35:36 AM3/10/22
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
Hello,
Demi Marie Obenour wrote Wednesday, 09.03.2022 16:33:
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 04:25:11PM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
>
> Looks like Google mangles the message in other ways, too. In my case,
> the charset is changed from us-ascii to UTF-8, and the
> Content-Transfer-Encoding header is removed, with the `=20` at the end
> of one line being replaced by a space. So the only solutions are either
> inline PGP or to switch list hosting solutions.
Where can I learn, how to use inline PGP (GPG) properly in my messages?
I use 'mutt' as my preferred MUA.
Best regards, Peter Funk
--
Peter Funk ✉:Oldenburger Str.86, 27777 Ganderkesee, Germany; 📱:+49-179-640-8878
homeoffice ☎:+49-4222-950270
office ✉: ArtCom GmbH, Haferwende 2, D-28357 Bremen, Germany; ☎:+49-421-20419-0
Demi Marie Obenour wrote Wednesday, 09.03.2022 16:33:
> On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 04:25:11PM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
>
> Looks like Google mangles the message in other ways, too. In my case,
> the charset is changed from us-ascii to UTF-8, and the
> Content-Transfer-Encoding header is removed, with the `=20` at the end
> of one line being replaced by a space. So the only solutions are either
> inline PGP or to switch list hosting solutions.
I use 'mutt' as my preferred MUA.
Best regards, Peter Funk
--
Peter Funk ✉:Oldenburger Str.86, 27777 Ganderkesee, Germany; 📱:+49-179-640-8878
homeoffice ☎:+49-4222-950270
office ✉: ArtCom GmbH, Haferwende 2, D-28357 Bremen, Germany; ☎:+49-421-20419-0
Eric W. Biederman
Mar 10, 2022, 2:10:49 PM3/10/22
to Demi Marie Obenour, Qubes OS Users Mailing List
Demi Marie Obenour <de...@invisiblethingslab.com> writes:
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
Doesn't it also break DMARC? I remember that was a big fight 5 or so
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
years ago to get all of the mailing list software to do something that
was compatible with DMARC because all messages that came through
mailling lists from a source that enabled DMARC to a MTA that enforced
DMARC were bouncing.
Eric
Ulrich Windl
Mar 10, 2022, 3:42:13 PM3/10/22
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
On 3/9/22 22:25, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
I wouldn't care that much about the footer if the content is kept
> The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
intact, but I think some mailing list software also messes up with
multipart MIME messages. Haven't seen that here, but on mailman lists...
Regards,
Ulrich
Demi Marie Obenour
Mar 10, 2022, 5:59:53 PM3/10/22
to Peter Funk, qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Hash: SHA256
On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 12:35:24PM +0100, Peter Funk wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Demi Marie Obenour wrote Wednesday, 09.03.2022 16:33:
> > On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 04:25:11PM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
> >
> > Looks like Google mangles the message in other ways, too. In my case,
> > the charset is changed from us-ascii to UTF-8, and the
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding header is removed, with the `=20` at the end
> > of one line being replaced by a space. So the only solutions are either
> > inline PGP or to switch list hosting solutions.
>
> Where can I learn, how to use inline PGP (GPG) properly in my messages?
> I use 'mutt' as my preferred MUA.
Use ‘p’ to select the PGP menu, then select “inline format” and “sign”.
> Hello,
>
> Demi Marie Obenour wrote Wednesday, 09.03.2022 16:33:
> > On Wed, Mar 09, 2022 at 04:25:11PM -0500, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> > > The footer on each message is rather annoying, mostly because it breaks
> > > digital signatures. Should it be set to the empty string, or do its
> > > benefits outweigh the drawbacks?
> >
> > Looks like Google mangles the message in other ways, too. In my case,
> > the charset is changed from us-ascii to UTF-8, and the
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding header is removed, with the `=20` at the end
> > of one line being replaced by a space. So the only solutions are either
> > inline PGP or to switch list hosting solutions.
>
> Where can I learn, how to use inline PGP (GPG) properly in my messages?
> I use 'mutt' as my preferred MUA.
- --
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
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Demi Marie Obenour
Mar 10, 2022, 6:02:22 PM3/10/22
to Eric W. Biederman, Qubes OS Users Mailing List
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header where necessary. That reminds me: Marek, should Qubes OS have
p=reject?
- --
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
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Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
Invisible Things Lab
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