Newbie question on disposable VMs?

[viktor....@gmail.com]

Hello Qubes community,

I'm only a short-term user of Qubes-OS - and - I'm very satisfied so far. - Thanks a lot for all your work on this important project!

I'd like to use disposable VMs as a means to efficiently 'simulate' E2E installation program experience for in-experienced users.

So far my approach has been to create persistent VMs for it - but - I'd like to optimize/ simplify that now by using disposable VMs ...

Now finally my question:

I am not able to/ I do not know how to copy content from a shell/ terminal in a disposable VM to a file in a regular VM :-(

Is this a deliberate design decision - or - what am I missing?

With kind regards,

VR

[Viktor Ransmayr]

Additional info & update on question:

I'm running Qubes OS 4.0.3 - and - was starting a disposable 'fedora-29-dvm' yesterday & by default the terminal offered is an Xterm.

This morning it became clear to me, that I should use the same setup, that I had used previously with the persistant VMs, i.e. where by default a standard (Gnome?) terminal is offered ...

I updated the Qube settings for 'fedora-29-dvm', increased the memory size & enabled network access.

However the terminal only shows up temporarily - and - the disposable VM is halted again ...

Can somebody explain what is going on?

With kind regards,

VR

[Stumpy]

On 2020-03-21 04:26, Viktor Ransmayr wrote:
> Am Fr., 20. März 2020 um 21:30 Uhr schrieb <viktor....@gmail.com

> <mailto:viktor....@gmail.com>>:

>
> Hello Qubes community,
>
> I'm only a short-term user of Qubes-OS - and - I'm very satisfied so
> far. - Thanks a lot for all your work on this important project!
>
> I'd like to use disposable VMs as a means to efficiently 'simulate'
> E2E installation program experience for in-experienced users.
>
> So far my approach has been to create persistent VMs for it - but -
> I'd like to optimize/ simplify that now by using disposable VMs ...
>
> Now finally my question:
>

> *I am not able to/ I do not know how to copy content from a shell/
> terminal in a disposable VM to a file in a regular VM :-(*

For copying text from terminal in any vm to any other vm (except dom0)
is pretty much dependant upon the terminal program you are using. if you
are using xterm then i believe there is a way but its tricky so i cant
help you there (I am 99% sure i found how somewhere on stackexchange)
but with others like Terminator, or the termial that comes with xfce you
should be able to right click for a conext menu, select copy, then
ctrl+shft+c then switch to the vm you want and ctrl+shift+v then paste.

If you are talking about moving files then in a terminal you just type
qvm-copy filename
then a window should pop up where you can select what appvm you want it
to go to and it will then put your file(s) in a folder ~/QubesIncomming

>
> Is this a deliberate design decision - or - what am I missing?
>
>
> Additional info & update on question:
>
> I'm running Qubes OS 4.0.3 - and - was starting a disposable
> 'fedora-29-dvm' yesterday & by default the terminal offered is an Xterm.
>
> This morning it became clear to me, that I should use the same setup,
> that I had used previously with the persistant VMs, i.e. where by
> default a standard (Gnome?) terminal is offered ...
>
> I updated the Qube settings for 'fedora-29-dvm', increased the memory
> size & enabled network access.
>
> However the terminal only shows up temporarily - and - the disposable VM
> is halted again ...

Sorry, I havent a clue on that one, thought i dont think mem is an issue
as the default is 4gb which should be plenty AFAIR.

I have no clue if this would fix things but since you are on 29 and 30
has been out you might upgrade to fed 30 which might resolve the issue
you are having.

>
> Can somebody explain what is going on?
>
> With kind regards,
>
> VR
>

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[viktor....@gmail.com]

Am Samstag, 21. März 2020 14:39:18 UTC+1 schrieb Stumpy:

On 2020-03-21 04:26, Viktor Ransmayr wrote:
> Am Fr., 20. März 2020 um 21:30 Uhr schrieb <viktor....@gmail.com
> <mailto:viktor....@gmail.com>>:
>
>     Hello Qubes community,
>
>     I'm only a short-term user of Qubes-OS - and - I'm very satisfied so
>     far. - Thanks a lot for all your work on this important project!
>
>     I'd like to use disposable VMs as a means to efficiently 'simulate'
>     E2E installation program experience for in-experienced users.
>
>     So far my approach has been to create persistent VMs for it - but -
>     I'd like to optimize/ simplify that now by using disposable VMs ...
>
>     Now finally my question:
>
>     *I am not able to/ I do not know how to copy content from a shell/
>     terminal in a disposable VM to a file in a regular VM :-(*

For copying text from terminal in any vm to any other vm (except dom0)
is pretty much dependant upon the terminal program you are using. if you
are using xterm then i believe there is a way but its tricky so i cant
help you there (I am 99% sure i found how somewhere on stackexchange)
but with others like Terminator, or the termial that comes with xfce you
should be able to right click for a conext menu, select copy, then
ctrl+shft+c then switch to the vm you want and ctrl+shift+v then paste.

Thanks, that's what I thought in the morning as well ;-)

 

If you are talking about moving files then in a terminal you just type
qvm-copy filename
then a window should pop up where you can select what appvm you want it
to go to and it will then put your file(s) in a folder ~/QubesIncomming

>
>     Is this a deliberate design decision - or - what am I missing?
>
>
> Additional info & update on question:
>
> I'm running Qubes OS 4.0.3 - and - was starting a disposable
> 'fedora-29-dvm' yesterday & by default the terminal offered is an Xterm.
>
> This morning it became clear to me, that I should use the same setup,
> that I had used previously with the persistant VMs, i.e. where by
> default a standard (Gnome?) terminal is offered ...
>
> I updated the Qube settings for 'fedora-29-dvm', increased the memory
> size & enabled network access.
>
> However the terminal only shows up temporarily - and - the disposable VM
> is halted again ...

Sorry, I havent a clue on that one, thought i dont think mem is an issue
as the default is 4gb which should be plenty AFAIR.

I have no clue if this would fix things but since you are on 29 and 30
has been out you might upgrade to fed 30 which might resolve the issue
you are having.

I'll take your advice, upgrade to F30 - and - will report back here.

Thanks a lot for your help.

With kind regards,

VR

 

[viktor....@gmail.com]

Am Samstag, 21. März 2020 18:14:51 UTC+1 schrieb viktor....@gmail.com:

Am Samstag, 21. März 2020 14:39:18 UTC+1 schrieb Stumpy:

On 2020-03-21 04:26, Viktor Ransmayr wrote:
> Am Fr., 20. März 2020 um 21:30 Uhr schrieb <viktor....@gmail.com
> <mailto:viktor....@gmail.com>>:
>

...

>
> Additional info & update on question:
>
> I'm running Qubes OS 4.0.3 - and - was starting a disposable
> 'fedora-29-dvm' yesterday & by default the terminal offered is an Xterm.
>
> This morning it became clear to me, that I should use the same setup,
> that I had used previously with the persistant VMs, i.e. where by
> default a standard (Gnome?) terminal is offered ...
>
> I updated the Qube settings for 'fedora-29-dvm', increased the memory
> size & enabled network access.
>
> However the terminal only shows up temporarily - and - the disposable VM
> is halted again ...

Sorry, I havent a clue on that one, thought i dont think mem is an issue
as the default is 4gb which should be plenty AFAIR.

I have no clue if this would fix things but since you are on 29 and 30
has been out you might upgrade to fed 30 which might resolve the issue
you are having.

I'll take your advice, upgrade to F30 - and - will report back here.

I renamed "fedora-29-dvm", changed template to "fedora-30", kept networking to "sys-firewall" as well as max memory to 8 GB - plus - I exchanged "xterm" with "terminal" & tried again.

However the behaviour did not change.

Is this information sufficient to file a bug report - or - what else should I provide?

With kind regards,

VR

[Mike Keehan]

"Terminal" not showing up in a template has been answered on this list
before. Something to do with the way gnome starts their program, I think.

Mike.

[viktor....@gmail.com]

Hello Mike,

Thanks a lot for your F/B. - This is the link to the qubes-user msg providing the details:

* https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-users/keKZRDawupQ/HYM3m4xmAwAJ

No further question ( for the moment ;-)

With kind regards,

VR

[Franz]

I imagine that if you write gnome-terminal, rather than terminal it should work

[unman]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 09:26:57AM +0100, Viktor Ransmayr wrote:

> Am Fr., 20. M??rz 2020 um 21:30 Uhr schrieb <viktor....@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hello Qubes community,
> >
> > I'm only a short-term user of Qubes-OS - and - I'm very satisfied so far.
> > - Thanks a lot for all your work on this important project!
> >
> > I'd like to use disposable VMs as a means to efficiently 'simulate' E2E
> > installation program experience for in-experienced users.
> >
> > So far my approach has been to create persistent VMs for it - but - I'd
> > like to optimize/ simplify that now by using disposable VMs ...
> >
> > Now finally my question:
> >

> > *I am not able to/ I do not know how to copy content from a shell/
> > terminal in a disposable VM to a file in a regular VM :-(*

> >
> > Is this a deliberate design decision - or - what am I missing?
> >
>
> Additional info & update on question:
>
> I'm running Qubes OS 4.0.3 - and - was starting a disposable
> 'fedora-29-dvm' yesterday & by default the terminal offered is an Xterm.
>
> This morning it became clear to me, that I should use the same setup, that
> I had used previously with the persistant VMs, i.e. where by default a
> standard (Gnome?) terminal is offered ...
>
> I updated the Qube settings for 'fedora-29-dvm', increased the memory size
> & enabled network access.
>
> However the terminal only shows up temporarily - and - the disposable VM is
> halted again ...
>
> Can somebody explain what is going on?
>
> With kind regards,
>
> VR

This has come up many times on the list.
When you start gnome-terminal it spawns a process, that then opens the
terminal and closes. Because the called process has ended, Qubes closes
the disposableVM, as it would when you close an xterm window.
There's an open issue on the subject.