Qubes User Forum

[Zrubi]

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Hash: SHA256

Hi,

There were several discussions before about the current mailing lists
and/or a possible forum.

I would not only just bring back this topic, but already created a PoC
project:
https://qubes-os.info

The Qubes developers are already know about my project - still it is
an UNOFFICIAL, Proof of Concept project.
The goal is to see how it would work in practice.

The forum engine (fudforum) has a unique feature:
mailing list manager.

This means: it is able to sync any mailing list with a forum.
So every mail posted to any of the qubes mailing lists will be
received by the forum engine, and convert it to a forum post.

As the sync working both ways if a user post a new topic, or reply to
an existing one using the forum interface, it will be sent out as a
regular mail to the corresponding mailing list.

This way - if it's really work in practice - You don't have to chose
one solution, both the mailing list and the forum can work and live
together.

So if you prefer the forum interface - or just want to give it a try -
you can login to the forum, and just start using it. :)
Every kind of feedback are welcome. ;)

The direct registration is disabled for a reason:
If you post any mail to one of the mailing lists, the forum engine
creates a user account automatically, using your email address and
your name (if you using any alongside your mail address)
Because of the two way sync, it is vital to match the forum users with
the mail authors... and the key is your mail address.

So if you already posted any mail after the forum started receiving
mails (2018.10.23), you already have an account. You can access it
using the password reset function of the forum.

As the username is auto generated, check your username by reading any
of your own mails on the forum interface. Later you can change it as
you wish.

As your "name" alongside with your email address is already a public
information, the forum not ever needs any more personal info from you.
However optionally, you can add more details to your account if you
feel so.

Some technical background:
The domain name is registered by me for "personal use". But if the PoC
will be successful, and/or the Qubes team ever would need it, I
willing to cooperate.

The whole solution is hosted on an external provider. So even if I try
to make it reasonable safe, keep in mind that the hosting provider
(1&1) owns it all.

You should be aware that the forum engine is polling a mailbox, so it
has a few minutes of delay.

Help needed:
Currently it's just a one man show :)
The domain, and the hosting is paid for 12 months.
The forum engine is configured, and "seems to be" working.

However I would really need help to:
- - test this solution, by using it :)
- - forum administrators also welcome.
- - some voluntary moderators would be nice also.
- - create any better design :)
- - creating a privacy policy, and such pages...



- --
Zrubi
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[unman]

Thanks Zrubi -this looks nice solution for those who prefer forums.
I wondered what those test messages were.
If you need help I can chip in with admin or moderationi, if I can use
the interface. I'll let you know by email.

unman

[Achim Patzner]

Am Freitag, den 26.10.2018, 13:17 +0200 schrieb Zrubi:
> This means: it is able to sync any mailing list with a forum.
> So every mail posted to any of the qubes mailing lists will be
> received by the forum engine, and convert it to a forum post.

How well is it dealing with the endemic "I can earn 8000$ an hour by
selling all my grandmothers and so can you"-type forum spam (besides
having a houskeeping department consisting of more mods than users)?

> As the sync working both ways if a user post a new topic, or reply to
> an existing one using the forum interface, it will be sent out as a
> regular mail to the corresponding mailing list.
>
> This way - if it's really work in practice - You don't have to chose
> one solution, both the mailing list and the forum can work and live
> together.
>
> So if you prefer the forum interface - or just want to give it a try
> -
> you can login to the forum, and just start using it. :)
> Every kind of feedback are welcome. ;)
>
> The direct registration is disabled for a reason:
> If you post any mail to one of the mailing lists, the forum engine
> creates a user account automatically, using your email address and
> your name (if you using any alongside your mail address)

And then sends out the password for that account by mail to the mailing
list? 8-)

> Some technical background:
> The domain name is registered by me for "personal use". But if the
> PoC
> will be successful, and/or the Qubes team ever would need it, I
> willing to cooperate.

If that would be a problem I would be able to donate the domain
irren.haus...

> The domain, and the hosting is paid for 12 months.

Even with 1&1 being quite cheap: How expensive is it?

> However I would really need help to:
> - test this solution, by using it :)
> - forum administrators also welcome.
> - some voluntary moderators would be nice also.

You mean "cleaning staff"? 8-) Sounds like a great idea if all heavy
duty users should volunteer some time for it.

> - creating a privacy policy, and such pages...

UGH.

To make it a bit more palatable: Make it Tapatalk compatible... 8-).


Achim

[Zrubi]

Achim Patzner wrote on Fri, 26 October 2018 12:32

> How well is it dealing with the endemic "I can earn
> 8000$ an hour by
> selling all my grandmothers and so can you"-type forum
> spam (besides
> having a houskeeping department consisting of more mods
> than users)?

Only registered ussers can post to the forum.

So the situation is the same as is with the mailing lists,
except:
the forum admins/moderators can ban users, delete spam,
etc...

We will se how it is going :) - that is the goal for the
PoC.

[Zrubi]

Achim Patzner wrote on Fri, 26 October 2018 12:32

> And then sends out the password for that account by mail
> to the mailing

> list? 8)

Nope :d
It should send it to your mail addres.
But, let's try it:
https://qubes-os.info/index.php?t=reset&

[Zrubi]

Achim Patzner wrote on Fri, 26 October 2018 12:32

> Even with 1&1 being quite cheap: How expensive is it?

I have paid only $12 - with the domain included.
So the first year was a gift :)

The next year would cost more for sure, but we should not
worry about this at least for the next 10 monts ;)
If the project will succeed, I'm happy to fund the next year
too...

[Raffaele Florio]

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Thanks Zrubi.
Those test messages are clear now.

> However I would really need help to:
>
> - test this solution, by using it :)
> - forum administrators also welcome.
> - some voluntary moderators would be nice also.
> - create any better design :)
> - creating a privacy policy, and such pages...
>
> --

> Zrubi
>

I could help with the admin/moderator role.

Best Regards,
Raffaele.
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[Zrubi]

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Hash: SHA256

On 10/26/18 4:35 PM, 'Raffaele Florio' via qubes-users wrote:
> I could help with the admin/moderator role.

Cool, the first issue is here:

It seems if you using the google "forum" interface, then the from
header looks like this:

From: "'Raffaele Florio' via qubes-users" <qubes...@googlegroups.com>

This seems to trick the forum engine, and creating a user using the
mailing list address :o bummer.

So if you want to use the forum, please post a "real mail" to the list
first ;)

- --
Zrubi
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[Zrubi]

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On 10/26/18 9:52 PM, Zrubi wrote:
> It seems if you using the google "forum" interface, then the from
> header looks like this:
>
> From: "'Raffaele Florio' via qubes-users"
> <qubes...@googlegroups.com>

Or probably not even the forum interface, but the standard webmail
with multiple email address/alias?

Can you confirm how you post your mails to this list please?

- --
Zrubi
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[Zrubi]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 10/26/18 10:18 PM, Zrubi wrote:
> On 10/26/18 9:52 PM, Zrubi wrote:
>> It seems if you using the google "forum" interface, then the from
>> header looks like this:
>
>> From: "'Raffaele Florio' via qubes-users"
>> <qubes...@googlegroups.com>
>
> Or probably not even the forum interface, but the standard webmail
> with multiple email address/alias?
>
> Can you confirm how you post your mails to this list please?

I just found the root cause:

https://www.spamresource.com/2014/04/google-groups-rewriting-from-addres
ses.html

As you are not the only one having this issue, I might be creating a
patch for fudforum to handle this madness.

- --
Zrubi
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[Zrubi]

I just wondering If my instructions was not clear about how
to get access to the forum interface?
Or just nobody cares?


I would accept if nobody is interested, but I see a lot of
registration "attempt" in the logs...

[awokd]

Zrubi wrote on 10/30/18 12:02 PM:

I am pretty set in my ways, so hadn't tried it before. :)
Anyways, when I attempted just now, I went to password reset and put in
my email address but it says "e-mail address not found in database".
I've posted several emails to qubes-users since 10/23 so am not sure why
it's not finding me.

[Zrubi]

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Hash: SHA256

Yeah, you are one of the many users affected by this issue:
https://www.spamresource.com/2014/04/google-groups-rewriting-from-addres
ses.html

So your email address have been replaced to the mailing list's own
address by google.
The result is:

From: "'awokd' via qubes-users" <qubes...@googlegroups.com>

nice, isn't it? :D

I will gonna create a user for the affected users manually...
(till it's gonna be resolved somehow)

- --
Zrubi
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[donoban]

Just testing it. It seems nice and probably a better way for
search old threads.

Thanks :)

[donoban]

Looking at mail headers:
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
spf=fail (google.com: domain of don...@riseup.net does not
designate 74.208.4.196 as permitted sender)
smtp.mailfrom=don...@riseup.net;
dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=riseup.net
Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net. [74.208.4.196])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
p24si196393otk.4.2018.10.30.06.42.28
for <qubes...@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
Tue, 30 Oct 2018 06:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: fail (google.com: domain of don...@riseup.net does not
designate 74.208.4.196 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.208.4.196;
Received: from infong-us27.perfora.net ([74.208.57.168]) by
mrelay.perfora.net

Is this not problematic?

[Zrubi]

I would say it is not a problen until the mail gets
delivered :)

But, this is one of the reasons that this is a PoC project:
we well only see - if start testing it.

[donoban]

Also there is redundant "RE:" prefix on the subject.

[Raffaele Florio]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi Zrubi,
I was pretty busy during these days. However I've just tried to register myself through the "password reset". However the forum alert me about "E-mail address not found in database", probably because the mailing-list bug.
Furthermore I've just tried to reset the password of "qubes...@googlegroups.com". As I suspected an email popped up publicly in the mailing list. Furthermore the reset link wasn't opened by me, but automatically by "something". Now I cannot investigate.

Best Regards,
Raffaele.
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[Zrubi]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 10/30/18 1:59 PM, Zrubi wrote:

> Yeah, you are one of the many users affected by this issue:
> https://www.spamresource.com/2014/04/google-groups-rewriting-from-addr
es
>
>
ses.html
>
> So your email address have been replaced to the mailing list's own
> address by google. The result is:
>
> From: "'awokd' via qubes-users" <qubes...@googlegroups.com>

I just created a patch to address this issue.
So everybody should be able to
- - find their own posts (dated from now)
- - get access to the forum interface
(by using the password reset function)

I also patched some other bugs in the forum engine, will see if it's
getting better :)

Any further suggestion and/or bug reports are welcome.

- --
Zrubi
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[Achim Patzner]

Am Mittwoch, den 07.11.2018, 18:10 +0100 schrieb Zrubi:

Any further suggestion and/or bug reports are welcome.

Replace the useless smiley by things like ⚙️, ☠️, 🗯, 💢 and ✔️? (8-))

Achim

[Sven Semmler]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Testing to post from the forum. First impressions:

- - Pretty sure I want to post from my mail client, since I
like my stuff
to be signed. Faking an email address is way to easy.

- - Following a discussion might be faster in the mail
client too, but I
can see that there are probably (younger?) folks who grew
up with
forums. I still mourn the usenet.

- - If this POC gets legs, it would be very useful if the
software would
become GPG/PGP aware (as in verifying signatures and
hiding the actual
signatures)

/Sven
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[Zrubi]

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On 11/10/18 4:50 AM, Sven Semmler wrote:
> Testing to post from the forum. First impressions:
>
> - Pretty sure I want to post from my mail client, since I like my
> stuff to be signed.

I'm fully agree with this.

> - Following a discussion might be faster in the mail client too,

That's where I would prefer a forum instead of a mail client.
However I'm not a younger one :D

And the forums has more features like
- - moderation of the posts

- - re organization of the threads.
You can make the mess more useful for others

- - topic, forum tagging

- - user/thread rating

- - you can follow selected threads, and skip the rest.
Currently I receive much more mails that I can ever read.

- - much better search possibilities.
Especially if you are not have all the mails locally.

> - If this POC gets legs, it would be very useful if the software
> would become GPG/PGP aware (as in verifying signatures and hiding
> the actual signatures)

That's would be awesome!
This forum engine is open source, and prepared for plugins.
So, contributions are welcome ;)

- --
Zrubi
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[Zrubi]

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Hash: SHA256

On 10/26/18 1:17 PM, Zrubi wrote:
> Currently it's just a one man show :)

And remained such...

> The domain, and the hosting is paid for 12 months.

While there is a few (paid) moths left, it seems there is no need for
this service, as only a very few users where ever used it - respect to
them.

As the service is currently broken, and I have no time and inspiration
to fix it again, I will just shut down the forum.



@Andrew:
- - If the Qubes Team needs the domain name, I'm willing to assist the
transfer.

- - If you can easily "unsubscribe" all the users from the
"qubes-os.info" domain, please do so. Thanks.

- --
Zrubi
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