Google requiring login to access qubes-users

[tetra...@danwin1210.me]

WHen I try to access the Google Groups qubes-users site, sometimes
(circa 50%) I'm presented with a Google login prompt and can't access
the qubes-users group unless I have a Google account.

Since Qubes is privacy-focused it seems like maybe the Qubes mailing
lists should migrate to a less Orwellian mailing list provider.

[unman]

This comes up repeatedly.
If you don't like Google Groups, but want a web interface, use the mail
archive at https://www.mail-archive.com/qubes...@googlegroups.com/
If you don't want a web interface, interact with it as a mailing list.

[Антон Чехов]

I noticed that as well. I've been surfing the internet almost exclusively via VPN for a very long time and the past few weeks have become a pain. Google services and other big companies like Amazon apparently increased measures against the use of VPN. I had used dedicated (public) servers for different sites for years without problems and suddenly Amazon and other big companies stopped accepting my usual payment methods like bank transfer. Instead I should use gift cards (!!!).

Most servers of the big VPN providers like Proton, Air and other companies are blacklisted and therefore captcha have become a common occurrence.

Maybe this will become our new home for the future:

https://qubes-os.discourse.group/

Or, like unman suggested, use google groups like a mailing list without ever logging in.

[unman]

> But still your messages will be sent to Google...
>
And so?
I don't send messages to Google - I send them to people who read the
mailing list. Since that is a public activity I don't care if Google sees
it.
The list is public, so Google will be all over it in any case.
Does this mean that I favour Google in any way? Not at all.

I never use the google web client, and it aggravates me when people link to
messages there, instead of in the mail archive. I wish they wouldn't.

[Chris Laprise]

The mail-archive site doesn't come up prominently in searches and I even
forgot it existed, but thanks for the reminder.

The list remains in peoples' minds as being a "Google group" so they are
likely to gravitate toward Google to read its contents. So what we have
is a pressure tactic from Google to trace more user activity across the
web – user logs into Google to read some list messages, and Google links
their recent and future browsing history to the users' identity.

This doesn't affect list subscribers much, as we can read messages in
our email clients. But Google knows the many 'casual' list users who are
not subscribed are not 'casual' users of the entire web, and they are
likely to sign in just to get at a handful of messages that could solve
their problem.

--
Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net
https://github.com/tasket
https://twitter.com/ttaskett
PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886

[54th Parallel]

On Monday, 17 August 2020 at 08:38:20 UTC+8 Chris Laprise wrote:

The mail-archive site doesn't come up prominently in searches and I even
forgot it existed, but thanks for the reminder.

The list remains in peoples' minds as being a "Google group" so they are
likely to gravitate toward Google to read its contents. So what we have
is a pressure tactic from Google to trace more user activity across the
web – user logs into Google to read some list messages, and Google links
their recent and future browsing history to the users' identity.

This doesn't affect list subscribers much, as we can read messages in
our email clients. But Google knows the many 'casual' list users who are
not subscribed are not 'casual' users of the entire web, and they are
likely to sign in just to get at a handful of messages that could solve
their problem.

--
Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net
https://github.com/tasket
https://twitter.com/ttaskett
PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886

As someone who has had an open tab on the Google Groups page for a long time, I want to add that activity has dropped *dramatically* since Google started mandating logins. Like, it has fallen off a cliff and now the place has a ghost town vibe to it. 

With the changes in Google Group's interface, I'm tempted to abandon this place entirely and shift to mail, but for the sake of having more participants, it'd be nice to have the forum/mailing list somewhere less restrictive.

[Jarrah]

> With the changes in Google Group's interface, I'm tempted to abandon this
> place entirely and shift to mail, but for the sake of having more
> participants, it'd be nice to have the forum/mailing list somewhere less
> restrictive.

There was quite a large discussion about this under the subject "Help
create a Qubes Users Forum!" on qubes-devel a while back. It's  even
more of a ghost town currently, but there's only one way to fix that.
It's at https://qubes-os.discourse.group/. Maybe it could solve the problem?

[Andrew David Wong]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

We're actually working on an announcement about this right now. Stay
tuned!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org

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[awokd]

54th Parallel:

> As someone who has had an open tab on the Google Groups page for a long
> time, I want to add that activity has dropped *dramatically* since Google
> started mandating logins. Like, it has fallen off a cliff and now the place
> has a ghost town vibe to it.

I imagine China's policy requiring real ID to use the Internet has
Google salivating all over itself.

--
- don't top post
Mailing list etiquette:
- trim quoted reply to only relevant portions
- when possible, copy and paste text instead of screenshots

[54th Parallel]

Andrew wrote:

>We're actually working on an announcement about this right now. Stay
tuned!

I see you're very much on top of things. Looking forward to it!

On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 21:14:07 UTC+8 awokd wrote:

I imagine China's policy requiring real ID to use the Internet has
Google salivating all over itself.

--
- don't top post
Mailing list etiquette:
- trim quoted reply to only relevant portions
- when possible, copy and paste text instead of screenshots

If only Google actually had access to that market. For that reason, I'm far more wary of Apple, since they seem eager to not offend the authorities so their lucrative market access there isn't jepoardized. 

Case in point: virtually all the major tech firms have suspended the processing of requests by the Hong Kong government, Google being the latest--even Microsoft. Apple is now the two trillion ton elephant in the room (question: would a two trillion ton object the size of an elephant collapse into a black hole?). Who knows what backdoor deals (pun completely intended) it has with the Chinese government?

But then maybe Google has other channels to purchase and make use of real-ID linked data from China. That, and Apple doesn't have a sprawling web presence.

/rant

[Jackie]

54th Parallel:

(question: would a two trillion ton object the size of an elephant
> collapse into a black hole?)

well, a neutron star is more dense, so i don't think so :) as appealing
as the collapse of apple sounds..