Fedora Desktop in Qubes

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Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 21, 2016, 6:13:24 AM12/21/16
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Hi, I saw some threads on this but am not clear at a high level.

I thought I would install dropbox client on one of my Fedora VMs so that working with files is much smoother than from a browser. So, is installing a Fedora Desktop the best plan to do that? Don't assume I know enough of native Qubes ability please - maybe I'm missing a key point!

Thanks,
Patrick

Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 21, 2016, 10:21:35 PM12/21/16
to qubes-users

one day of poking around more, let me just ask this. I looked but could not find, is it normal to be able to launch Fedora GNOME inside a Fedora 24 VM? How does one do that? I tried StartX... that doesn't work. Do I need to install something?

Andrew David Wong

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Dec 22, 2016, 1:17:18 AM12/22/16
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
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On 2016-12-21 19:21, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-5, Patrick
> Bouldin wrote:
>> Hi, I saw some threads on this but am not clear at a high level.
>>
>> I thought I would install dropbox client on one of my Fedora VMs
>> so that working with files is much smoother than from a browser.
>> So, is installing a Fedora Desktop the best plan to do that?
>> Don't assume I know enough of native Qubes ability please - maybe
>> I'm missing a key point!
>>

You'll want to install Dropbox in your TemplateVM so that you can use it
in AppVMs based on that TemplateVM. You can follow the instructions on
Dropbox's website for adding their repo in your Fedora TemplateVM, then:

$ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox

> one day of poking around more, let me just ask this. I looked but
> could not find, is it normal to be able to launch Fedora GNOME
> inside a Fedora 24 VM? How does one do that? I tried StartX... that
> doesn't work. Do I need to install something?
>

Quoting Marek's answer to this in another thread:
> This isn't possible for standard AppVMs - this part (emulated GPU)
> is intentionally disabled there. If you really want, for whatever
> reason, you can: - start vncserver in the VM and connect to it from
> the same VM - create HVM and install some linux (or other system)
> there - HVMs are running with emulated GPU and can be viewed with
> full desktop in a window: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/hvm/

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-users/Z8XXbz5wofE/caDe72DjCgAJ

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Jean-Philippe Ouellet

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Dec 23, 2016, 7:21:17 PM12/23/16
to Andrew David Wong, Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Andrew David Wong <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:
> You'll want to install Dropbox in your TemplateVM so that you can use it
> in AppVMs based on that TemplateVM. You can follow the instructions on
> Dropbox's website for adding their repo in your Fedora TemplateVM, then:
>
> $ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox

However, be careful with which template you install it in!

In particular, if this template is used for VMs which have network
access and also secrets you wish to never be in dropbox, then this may
be a dangerously bad idea.

You may wish to create a separate template for this purpose.

Andrew David Wong

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Dec 24, 2016, 12:52:50 AM12/24/16
to Jean-Philippe Ouellet, Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
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On 2016-12-23 16:20, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Andrew David Wong
> <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:
>> You'll want to install Dropbox in your TemplateVM so that you can
>> use it in AppVMs based on that TemplateVM. You can follow the
>> instructions on Dropbox's website for adding their repo in your
>> Fedora TemplateVM, then:
>>
>> $ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox
>
> However, be careful with which template you install it in!

This is *always* true for *anything* you install in *any* template.

> In particular, if this template is used for VMs which have network
> access and also secrets you wish to never be in dropbox, then this
> may be a dangerously bad idea.

Dropbox only syncs the contents of its own folder, so this won't
happen by accident. (If you're assuming that Dropbox is malicious,
then of course it could potentially own the entire VM, just like any
other hypothetical VM-owning malware.)

> You may wish to create a separate template for this purpose.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Jean-Philippe Ouellet

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Dec 24, 2016, 12:45:14 PM12/24/16
to Andrew David Wong, Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 12:52 AM, Andrew David Wong <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:
> On 2016-12-23 16:20, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Andrew David Wong
>> <a...@qubes-os.org> wrote:
>>> You'll want to install Dropbox in your TemplateVM so that you can
>>> use it in AppVMs based on that TemplateVM. You can follow the
>>> instructions on Dropbox's website for adding their repo in your
>>> Fedora TemplateVM, then:
>>>
>>> $ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox
>>
>> However, be careful with which template you install it in!
>
> This is *always* true for *anything* you install in *any* template.

We agree.

However, I wanted to point out that it is particularly relevant for
services which establish some outgoing network connection
automatically, as this necessarily increases the attack surface
compared to a piece of software which does not.

For example, compare it to installing rsync. Assuming neither the
dropbox or rsync packages are malicious and actively target Qubes,
Dropbox still incurs more risk in derived AppVMs than would rsync due
to the fact that rsync does not *automatically* communicate with
external untrusted machines which may attempt to attack you, whereas
Dropbox does.

In a template with derived AppVMs in which you only e.g. browse the
web and never manually invoke rsync or make intentional use of
Dropbox, this may matter.

What I mean to say in practice for the OP is "if you currently have
only a single template (as does a default install) maybe installing
dropbox there isn't a good idea."

Andrew David Wong

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Dec 24, 2016, 12:59:12 PM12/24/16
to Jean-Philippe Ouellet, Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
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This is not true. Dropbox doesn't even start automatically, much less
communicate automatically. If you install Dropbox in a Fedora
TemplateVM according to the above instructions, the Dropbox daemon
will *not* start automatically in any AppVM based on that template.
You have to start it manually. (After starting it manually, you can
configure it to start whenever the VM starts up, if you wish.)

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 27, 2016, 11:35:01 AM12/27/16
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On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:

Thanks for all the info on this!
Patrick
Dallas

Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 27, 2016, 12:35:19 PM12/27/16
to qubes-users
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:

Ran into some issues, can I confirm what you said?

So I first installed dropbox according to dropbox instructions:

$ cd ~ && wget -O - "https://www.dropbox.com/download?plat=lnx.x86_64" | tar xzf -

That completes ok...
Then they say:

Next, run the Dropbox daemon from the newly created .dropbox-dist folder.

~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd

I attempted this in the same Fedore template, is that correct? It installs but doesn't complete - it actually starts dropbox file synching.

I know you said that after I install according to your instructions to do:

$ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox

I assume that is also on the Fedora template?

I tried that with and without the last instruction from dropbox on the template.

Incidentally, I am able to successfully load dropbox and synch on any of my VMs... (of course I lose it when restart). So just need clarification on the template.

PS - I do not want Dropbox to start in a VM unless I tell it.

Thanks!
Patrick
Dallas

Andrew David Wong

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Dec 27, 2016, 1:50:35 PM12/27/16
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
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On 2016-12-27 09:35, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
>> Hi, I saw some threads on this but am not clear at a high level.
>>
>> I thought I would install dropbox client on one of my Fedora VMs so that working with files is much smoother than from a browser. So, is installing a Fedora Desktop the best plan to do that? Don't assume I know enough of native Qubes ability please - maybe I'm missing a key point!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Patrick
>
> Ran into some issues, can I confirm what you said?
>
> So I first installed dropbox according to dropbox instructions:
>
> $ cd ~ && wget -O - "https://www.dropbox.com/download?plat=lnx.x86_64" | tar xzf -
>
> That completes ok...
> Then they say:
>
> Next, run the Dropbox daemon from the newly created .dropbox-dist folder.
>
> ~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd
>
> I attempted this in the same Fedore template, is that correct?

This is a different installation method than the one I recommended.
It sounds like you're downloading a binary directly from Dropbox's
website and running it. My recommendations was to install it from the
repo instead.

> It installs but doesn't complete - it actually starts dropbox file synching.

That's because you told it to. :)
You manually started the Dropbox daemon in your last step above.

> I know you said that after I install according to your instructions to do:
>
> $ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox
>

No, that's not *after* you install it. That's *in order to* install it.

> I assume that is also on the Fedora template?

Yes, in the Fedora template.

> I tried that with and without the last instruction from dropbox on the template.
>

The instructions for adding the repo are here:

https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/246

After you add the repo, then this command will work:

$ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox

> Incidentally, I am able to successfully load dropbox and synch on any of my VMs... (of course I lose it when restart). So just need clarification on the template.
>
> PS - I do not want Dropbox to start in a VM unless I tell it.
>
> Thanks!
> Patrick
> Dallas
>

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 27, 2016, 2:04:28 PM12/27/16
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On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:

Thanks David. housekeeping question - before I started I copied my Fedora template, just in case. Am I correct I can easily undo those changes incorrectly made by deleting the template and renaming the backup template to the production one (just deleted)?

Thanks,
Patrick

Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 27, 2016, 2:11:04 PM12/27/16
to qubes-users

Sorry, I meant Andrew!

Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 27, 2016, 2:13:48 PM12/27/16
to qubes-users

And I see it works so disregard, Andrew - thanks again.

Patrick Bouldin

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Dec 27, 2016, 3:39:45 PM12/27/16
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Wow, this is a bear for me.

Dropbox said:Add the following to /etc/yum.conf.


name=Dropbox Repository
baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/\$releasever/
gpgkey=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc

So I performed a sudo gedit on that file and added the above three lines. When I saved it I received this:

** (gedit:1791): WARNING **: Set document metadata failed: Setting attribute metadata::gedit-position not supported
[user@fedora-24 ~]$

So I do see that you can't save metadata by extending the yum.conf file, and tried a few other things that I think it was suggesting.

When I try and run $ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox
I get this:
Last metadata expiration check: 0:14:35 ago on Tue Dec 27 15:23:35 2016.
No package nautilus-dropbox available.
Error: Unable to find a match.

I'm sorry if this is beyond the scope of qubesOS assistance, perhaps I should check in with a dropbox forum?

Thanks,
Patrick
Dallas

Andrew David Wong

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Dec 28, 2016, 2:41:28 AM12/28/16
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
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On 2016-12-27 12:39, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 2:13:48 PM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 2:11:04 PM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 2:04:28 PM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-5, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I saw some threads on this but am not clear at a high level.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought I would install dropbox client on one of my Fedora VMs so that working with files is much smoother than from a browser. So, is installing a Fedora Desktop the best plan to do that? Don't assume I know enough of native Qubes ability please - maybe I'm missing a key point!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> Thanks David. housekeeping question - before I started I copied my Fedora template, just in case. Am I correct I can easily undo those changes incorrectly made by deleting the template and renaming the backup template to the production one (just deleted)?
>>>>

Yes, that's correct.

>>>
>>> Sorry, I meant Andrew!
>>

No worries.

>> And I see it works so disregard, Andrew - thanks again.
>
> Wow, this is a bear for me.
>
> Dropbox said:Add the following to /etc/yum.conf.
>
>
> name=Dropbox Repository
> baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/\$releasever/
> gpgkey=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc
>
> So I performed a sudo gedit on that file and added the above three lines. When I saved it I received this:
>
> ** (gedit:1791): WARNING **: Set document metadata failed: Setting attribute metadata::gedit-position not supported
> [user@fedora-24 ~]$
>
> So I do see that you can't save metadata by extending the yum.conf file, and tried a few other things that I think it was suggesting.
>

No, I think that's just a warning message about the gedit program
itself. Should be safe to disregard. You can verify that the contents of
the file were saved with `cat /etc/yum.conf`.

> When I try and run $ sudo dnf install nautilus-dropbox
> I get this:
> Last metadata expiration check: 0:14:35 ago on Tue Dec 27 15:23:35 2016.
> No package nautilus-dropbox available.
> Error: Unable to find a match.
>

Try this:

$ sudo dnf --refresh install nautilus-dropbox

If that still doesn't work, try creating a separate repo file,
`/etc/yum.repos.d/dropbox.repo`, with this content:

[Dropbox]
name=Dropbox Repository
baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/$releasever/
gpgkey=https://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc

Then try this again:

$ sudo dnf --refresh install nautilus-dropbox

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Patrick Bouldin

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Jan 6, 2017, 5:37:54 PM1/6/17
to qubes-users, pat...@runthisproject.com

Darn, still not working - I noticed this link is not working: baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/\$releasever/
gpgkey=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc


So it's not finding the file, tested that just in my browser address bar.

Patrick

Andrew David Wong

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Jan 7, 2017, 3:21:42 AM1/7/17
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
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On 2017-01-06 14:37, Patrick Bouldin wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 2:41:28 AM UTC-5, Andrew David
> Darn, still not working - I noticed this link is not working:
> baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/\$releasever/
> gpgkey=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc
>
>
> So it's not finding the file, tested that just in my browser
> address bar.
>
> Patrick
>

I wouldn't expect that to work in your browser address bar due to the
backslash, but I have to ask: Why not try following the instructions I
provided in the previous email (to which you're replying)?

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jan 7, 2017, 3:22:43 AM1/7/17
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

(Not to mention the "$releasever" variable!)

> but I have to ask: Why not try following the instructions I
> provided in the previous email (to which you're replying)?
>

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Patrick Bouldin

unread,
Jan 7, 2017, 9:27:01 PM1/7/17
to qubes-users, pat...@runthisproject.com
Hi Andrew, I did follow them precisely, I just started fumbling around on my own - basically it still says it can't find the file, errors out - just like before - so I was just adding 2+2, figured it was the one I pointed out. So I did try the suggestions, including a special dropbox.repo in the /etc directory, same result. I need this in the fedora-24 template, right?

So if I:
[user@fedora-24 etc]$ cat dropbox.repo

I get...

Then when I run
[user@fedora-24 etc]$ sudo dnf --refresh install nautilus-dropbox

I get...

google-chrome 2.3 kB/s | 3.7 kB 00:01
Fedora 24 - x86_64 - Updates 3.4 MB/s | 20 MB 00:05
Qubes OS Repository for VM (updates) 155 kB/s | 435 kB 00:02

No package nautilus-dropbox available.
Error: Unable to find a match.

[user@fedora-24 etc]$

What do you think?

Thanks,
Patrick

Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)

unread,
Jan 7, 2017, 9:41:23 PM1/7/17
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
Run this Ansible recipe on the AppVM where you will be installing your
Dropbox client:


-----------------------------------

---
# It is assumed that the template will have wget. I could probably use
get_url if it didn't demand a checksum...
- hosts: localhost
tasks:
- name: deploy Dropbox
command: creates='{{ ansible_env.PWD }}/.dropbox-dist' chdir={{
ansible_env.PWD }} wget -O -
- name: deploy real Dropbox autostart file
copy:
content: |
[Desktop Entry]
Name=Dropbox
Comment=Run the Dropbox service
Exec={{ ansible_env.PWD }}/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd
Terminal=false
OnlyShowIn=QUBES
Type=Application
NoDisplay=true
dest: '{{ ansible_env.PWD }}/.config/autostart/dropbox.desktop'
owner: user
group: user
mode: 0644

-----------------------------------


Restart the AppVM. The Dropbox icon should appear on the taskbar now.


--
Rudd-O
http://rudd-o.com/

Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)

unread,
Jan 7, 2017, 9:42:12 PM1/7/17
to qubes...@googlegroups.com
On 12/24/2016 05:58 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>
> This is not true. Dropbox doesn't even start automatically, much less
> communicate automatically. If you install Dropbox in a Fedora
> TemplateVM according to the above instructions, the Dropbox daemon
> will *not* start automatically in any AppVM based on that template.
> You have to start it manually. (After starting it manually, you can
> configure it to start whenever the VM starts up, if you wish.)
>

I believe the RPM installs a desktop file in the autostart directory so,
yes, it does start automatically.

You can mask it, though.

--
Rudd-O
http://rudd-o.com/

Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jan 8, 2017, 11:13:18 AM1/8/17
to Manuel Amador (Rudd-O), qubes...@googlegroups.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Not for me. After installing in a TemplateVM with the procedure I gave
above, then starting an AppVM based on that template:

$ dropbox status
Dropbox isn't running!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jan 8, 2017, 11:15:56 AM1/8/17
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

> Hi Andrew, I did follow them precisely, I just started fumbling around on my own - basically it still says it can't find the file, errors out - just like before - so I was just adding 2+2, figured it was the one I pointed out. So I did try the suggestions, including a special dropbox.repo in the /etc directory, same result. I need this in the fedora-24 template, right?
>
> So if I:
> [user@fedora-24 etc]$ cat dropbox.repo
>

It needs to be in /etc/yum.repos.d/

> I get...
>
> [Dropbox] name=Dropbox Repository
> baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/$releasever/
> gpgkey=https://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc
>
> Then when I run
> [user@fedora-24 etc]$ sudo dnf --refresh install nautilus-dropbox
>
> I get...
>
> google-chrome 2.3 kB/s | 3.7 kB 00:01
> Fedora 24 - x86_64 - Updates 3.4 MB/s | 20 MB 00:05
> Qubes OS Repository for VM (updates) 155 kB/s | 435 kB 00:02
> No package nautilus-dropbox available.
> Error: Unable to find a match.
> [user@fedora-24 etc]$
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
> Patrick
>

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Patrick Bouldin

unread,
Jan 8, 2017, 5:57:15 PM1/8/17
to qubes-users, pat...@runthisproject.com

Ok, still same result - to confirm:

I created the file dropbox.repo inside the /etc/yum.repos.d folder

Contents of the file

Then, I assume also from the /etc/yum.repos.d folder ...

$ sudo dnf --refresh install nautilus-dropbox (but I tried it from several folders)

And the response is still "No package nautilus-dropbox available" Error: Unable to find a match.

Also to confirm, I'm doing all this in terminal for Template:Fedora-24

Thanks,
Patrick

01v3g4n10

unread,
Jan 8, 2017, 6:54:29 PM1/8/17
to qubes-users, pat...@runthisproject.com

nautilus-dropbox is available in rpmfusion. to enable rpmfusion see the last section of link.

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/software-update-vm/

Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jan 8, 2017, 11:33:35 PM1/8/17
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

> Ok, still same result - to confirm:
>
> I created the file dropbox.repo inside the /etc/yum.repos.d folder
>
> Contents of the file
>
> [Dropbox]
> name=Dropbox Repository
> baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/$releasever/
> gpgkey=https://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc
>

Note the line break (not sure if this actually matters, but still).

> Then, I assume also from the /etc/yum.repos.d folder ...
>
> $ sudo dnf --refresh install nautilus-dropbox (but I tried it from several folders)
>

Doesn't matter which folder you issue this command from.

> And the response is still "No package nautilus-dropbox available" Error: Unable to find a match.
>

In your Firewall rules tab for this VM, check the box "Allow full access for X minutes," then try again.

> Also to confirm, I'm doing all this in terminal for Template:Fedora-24
>

That's right.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Patrick Bouldin

unread,
Jan 11, 2017, 2:06:17 AM1/11/17
to qubes-users, pat...@runthisproject.com

Success!
Wow, well I turned the Firewall on, and tried it, no go. Then I edited the dropbox.repo file to put the line feed in, i.e.:

[Dropbox] {must me a linefeed here}

and sure enough, that did it! Also had to restart the template and also the VM.

Andrew thanks for hanging in with me. :)

Patrick
Dallas

Andrew David Wong

unread,
Jan 11, 2017, 3:45:28 AM1/11/17
to Patrick Bouldin, qubes-users
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

> Success!
> Wow, well I turned the Firewall on, and tried it, no go. Then I edited the dropbox.repo file to put the line feed in, i.e.:
>
> [Dropbox] {must me a linefeed here}
> name=Dropbox Repository
> baseurl=http://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/$releasever/
> gpgkey=https://linux.dropbox.com/fedora/rpm-public-key.asc
>
> and sure enough, that did it! Also had to restart the template and also the VM.
>
> Andrew thanks for hanging in with me. :)
>
> Patrick
> Dallas
>

Sure thing. Glad you were able to get it working.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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