I'm looking to build a new Desktop specifically for Qubes OS, so my most important requirement is compatibility. I currently have 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3400 (PC4 27200)[0] that I'd like to use, and I'm looking for a recommendation for the motherboard and CPU. Preferably a 6+ cores CPU. What do you guys use?
I'm aware of the HCL page, but I'm mostly interested in knowing your personal experience with your current hardware.
[0]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232264
im using a super micro c7z170sq, which mostly works, but ive never gotten the ps2 ports to work, so no sys-usb. the cpu is a 4 core skylake.
> [0]: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232264
> never gotten the ps2 ports to work, so no sys-usb
PS/2 ports are working fine on my system, fortunately. sys-usb was a requirement for me.
I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay
$80/ea for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a
6386SE for that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the
"protection plan" for anything either its a waste of money.
For the cooler I would get the 140W G34 cooler from noctua (needs 4U
case as it is tall)
PSU make sure you get a good brand with dual EPS12V (not adapters), I
suggest one that has modular cables.
If you want to have 192GB RAM there is a guide on the coreboot wiki you
gotta follow to make it work in terms of placement, otherwise I would
just get 8GB DIMM's and save money if you only want 128GB.
That case will not work, it is ATX and the KGPE-D16 needs SSI-EEB (only
available on a server case)
Damn $230 for a crappy ATX case and it isn't even brand new, you could
get a really nice 4U supermicro server case for that!
I would buy the RAM and CPU off of ebay, there is no reason to pay
$80/ea for that ram or $172 for a 6380 ($100 on ebay) you could get a
6386SE for that price. (needs 140W cooler FYI) No reason to get the
"protection plan" for anything either its a waste of money.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-PSP-Disable-Option
Pretty much any server hardware will work fine, personally I'm running a Tyan S7050 motherboard with a couple of E5-2667 V2 CPU's and 64gb of samsung ddr 3 ecc ram a couple of ssd's in (fake) raid 0 and 2 AMD gpu's. Unless you're pretty paranoid I wouldn't go with really old and slow hardware. If you have a decent amount of ddr4 I would look for an AMD Ryzen.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-PSP-Disable-Option
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I would suggest, as advice I followed from qubes docs, is to just try to find a board that has a manual describing iommu/vt-d options as available. Preferably manual stating its on by default. The best of all scenarios being a manual that shows a picture of the option with it enabled.
I would also suggest something with a ps/2 port for your keyboard, and using a usb to ps/2 adapter for better security.
integrated gpu is all you need. I would suggest 16-32gb of ram.
best of luck.
lmao. "CIA invented the word paranoid..." quote of the day... you are definitely libre thats for sure hahah.
So you mean it was enabled by default and shown with a picture in the manual, and it was a server board and it still didn't work. I'll have to take your word for it, because I would assume most server boards would work fine. I was referring to workstation boards and have had the opposite experience...
You troll me on the ps/2 thing alot. I'm giving out the same advice I have learned from Qubes docs and their forum posts. I think most users would disagree with you but maybe I'm wrong. Next you are going to tell me this is not a forum but a mailing list lol...
at least your posts are entertaining. most libre people are...
Who do you think is tapping the "ground wire" of your keyboard? Is it the CIA? hehe...
It seems to me you should be more worried about the actual keyboard you are using then what board you are connecting it to. And then if we really want to get down to PARANOID. They might as well put listening devices in there as well as recording all your keystrokes lol. Maybe put a microscopic camera in your keyboard too.
Gaming keyboards are probably the most unsafe. lol I got one that has two usb wires, one to program the keyboard. I just never plug that one in, I'm actually still not sure whats its for lmao, but it still has macros and I wouldn't plug that keyboard into a machine with sensitive data.
All my workstation boards also have two controllers. one for the two usb ports next to the ps/2. I've always assumed for mouse and keyboard.
But I consider my sys-usb unsafe. And even if you use a separate vm for mouse and kb its still proxying and still used for the most sensitive tasks. I use a mouse proxy from sys-usb, only after following Mareks advice of having screenlock come on in a min or two so attacker doesn't have time to do anything. But I would never risk using a kb like that.
Its nice though that you trust your usb keyboard cause it was made in a free western country. What country is that again? If you say the USA i'll have to start laughing... Especially since you like to mention the CIA.
And you still haven't explained exactly what is done with the ground wire? How is information obtained, or how is it used to take over your pc? Enlighten us all, because I can't even find the common sense. It seems you aren't speaking from any real life or personal experience or even suspicions. If i'm wrong i'd like to know why you think so, without the name calling please, we could all benefit.
If someone has government hitmen trying to kill them, the last thing they should be doing is using a computer or going online. That would be my advice. I wouldn't be trying to sell them hardware. How do we know you are not a government spy? :)
Are you stalking me from some crazy libre land?
I am not on IRC but as always you can email me personally for libre
hardware buying advice.
Hey I am curious are you from the middle east?
On 12/27/2017 02:49 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
> I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine, are
> the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?
>
4U always is recommended as you can use larger fans, with decent fans
and running fancontrol or the OpenBMC firmware on the KCMA-D8 and
KGPE-D16 they are almost silent and one can watch a film without complaint.
I think he is saying people get burned, and I have had the same experience when ordering online or buying used parts. I wouldn't even think about trusting ebay, I don't even trust amazon for computer parts anymore.
Tiger Direct has burned me more times than I can count. I've gotten wrong parts, parts that don't work. Its a nightmare.
Nowadays I only buy my parts from Microcenter directly off the shelf at the store. Or If its a hard to find item only "new" from newegg.com, verifying the genuine sticker is in there, or it goes back...
sure maybe ram or the cpu will not be tampered with. But what is the return policy like on ebay when it doesn't work? Forget about a damage claim if something happens.
I agree there is no reason to buy a protection plan from a store. But you definitely want that manufacturer warranty. Everything in my system has at least 3 year warranty for peace of mind.
On 12/28/2017 05:43 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
> Thx for the tip, yea might not worth the $70 to buy used, I'll keep an eye
> out for RAM/CPU on eBay. BTW on the manual of the board, it says that I can
> go with <4 or >4 RAM sticks but from what you said so far, it sounded like
> I need to fill all the slots, is that necessary? I'm intending to get 8Gb a
> stick to fill 64Gb. I don't think I need more than that.
You need two sticks per CPU for dual channel, four per CPU for quad
channel (very slight performance improvement)
The life of board components is much shorter than
>> Hey I am curious are you from the middle east?
>>
>> Yes, I'm originally from Lebanon, but I left a decade and half ago. I live now in the US.
Oh neat.
It is so sad whats happening in that area, so many people and so much
cultural heritage sites gone just because of a difference in
ideology....my I can't believe some people still think the black outfit
scumbag unit just showed up out of a mirage in the desert like magic.
> On 12/27/2017 02:49 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
>>> I have a 1U server and it's pretty loud, unusable as a Desktop machine,
>> are
>>> the 4U also loud? Any suggetions on a specific case?
>>>
>> 4U always is recommended as you can use larger fans, with decent fans
>> and running fancontrol or the OpenBMC firmware on the KCMA-D8 and
>> KGPE-D16 they are almost silent and one can watch a film without complaint.
>>
> Thx for the tip, I'll opt for OpenBMC in that case.
If you want this make sure your vendor is selling your the KGPE-D16 with
the ASMB module so you don't have to buy it later, it should say it in
the SKU title.
Those dual 6386 are a good price I would get them if I was you, there
will always be plenty of buyers if you want to sell the second one.
The KGPE-D16 almost always comes with the module so don't worry - btw
MSRP is $415 for brand new KGPE-D16 so don't overpay.
On 12/29/2017 10:28 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:06 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Those dual 6386 are a good price I would get them if I was you, there
>> will always be plenty of buyers if you want to sell the second one.
>>
> Ok got the CPU and the cooler.
Man dual 6386, that is gonna be one speed demon :D lucky bastard!
> I'm struggling to find a good case.
If you have the money I would get a supermicro 4U case, they are nice
(one that comes with front drive trays preferably)
> There
> are plenty of choice, and since this would be my first server case build,
> I'm not sure what to look for. For example, here's newegg search
> <https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008044&IsNodeId=1&Description=4u%20case&bop=And&SrchInDesc=EEB&Page=1&PageSize=36&order=BESTMATCH>
> for 4U cases having EEB keyword (no EEB filter offered), this case seems
> cheap enough
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020 but has
> 80mm fans in the middle, not 120mm. I've seen a few cases with 120mm
> mid-fans but did not support EEB. Do you have a link for a case you work
> with?
My case is a shorter model 80mil in the back 120 for both front drive
bays no room for middle fans.
That case seems fine, although can you tell me the price and shipping? I
can't see it as I browse with JS off.
TY again for your posts! Sounds like someone has to be in the same room. I did hear about this on Steve Gibsons podcast a while ago from some college kids research who did it successfully. but guess I didn't think of it as something practical.
"The researchers found a way to sniff USB keyboards, but older PS/2 keyboards, which have ground wires that connect right into the electric grid, were the best."
And so they can still sniff usb keyboards apparently. And contrary to what Tai believes, it also works on laptops...
Still think its not something to worry about unless in a public setting, and even still probaby very uncommon.
Then again, the government agent can break into your home and place a device. But I always say in that case, you have way more other problems to worry about, and they have more practical devices to put in your home. At that point they might as well use a camera and just watch your keystrokes.
They keep stressing "on older ps/2 keyboards" though which makes me wonder if its as practical for newer hardware. Newer cell phones emit more radiation then older ones, wonder if its the opposite for computer hardware? I still think using lasers is probably the most practical, and for that you have to have line of sight. Even for accurate wireless data they are around 60 feet away.
But I guess to sum it up, if the government assassin is after you... DON"T USE A KEYBOARD AT ALL> THEY ARE ALL BAD.
On 01/04/2018 01:23 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
> I read a bit more on M/B connectors and
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153218&ignorebbr=1
> has one EPS (8 pin) and one ATX (8 pin as well), so it's all good.
>
> Taiidan, what GPU do you use? The board has only a VGA, which is OK for
> setting it up, but I want to run a 1080p widescreen (one, for now, more for
> later. I have a GeForce GTX 760
> <https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-760/specifications>laying
> around, would it work? It says required PCI-E 3 and the board has PCI-E 2
> so probably not, but would be good to know.
Hmm curious is this your first time building a PC? :0 I thought you had
done this before? All PCI-e stuff is backwards and forwards compatible I
would get this all set up before you buy a newer GFX card - that one
will work fine for now.
Hey when you get this let me know if you need any help setting up VM
gaming it is very difficult but very rewarding.
One gotcha I have noticed is NUMA alignment, each 16 core CPU contains
two NUMA nodes and performance will suffer greatly if things are not
properly aligned (gets tricker in VM's too)
TPM:
I am not sure about TPM's I would call ASUS and ask for a board
compatible part number.
Newegg Links:
I can't view newegg links, you would have to find a OEM link to show me.
I would get a 1KW PSU from a reputable company, like I said dual EPS12V,
modular and japanese capacitors is what you want.
Case Price - no more than $200 unless it includes nice front HDD hot
swap bays - Don't use the PSU that comes with the case.
I would also get front drive bay HDD enclosures that have a fan
otherwise your drives will get hot inside the case and be a pain to service.
A Corsair PSU once died on me after a year. One of the C models. And the hdd and gpu got killed. Whats crazy is for a year I thought i was getting hacked and was going nuts, turns out it the psu must of been failing after 3 months and I never suspected it.
I filed a claim with them. They said nothing was wrong with the PSU or GPU. I told them thats impossible, because I had to replace the psu to get my board to post lol. and I flipped out.
Long story short, They paid for my hdd. But Stole my GPU, literally, stole the fkn thing and refused to give it back. They claimed they didn't know where it was. They probably reflashed it and gave it to their kid. Now that I think about it I should of called the police! On top of that they sent me two bad PSU's before they sent me a good one. I swear it. The first replacement immediately started smoking on me as if they sent me a bad psu on purpose just to fk with me!!! Because when they told me nothing was wrong with the psu, I told the guy his engineers are frauds. And The only reason they paid for the HDD is after I complained they stole my GPU and I was out a hdd.
The last GPU they sent me only lasted 2 years and stopped working out of nowhere with no warning signs.
Corsair has crap quality control, and evil engineers. EVGA on the other hand, is the best quality in PSU's I've ever seen, no matter the model. I've also had cheap psu's not work properly with a ups, but never the case with an evga psu. I hate to sound like a shrill, but noone comes close to them in the psu market. There is no comparison.
And ram is also backwards compatible when comes to frequencies. And when using a lower frequency you can always lower timings, and still have it in case you upgrade to higher frequency board in future.
On 01/07/2018 12:14 PM, Wael M. Nasreddine wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:57 PM Tai...@gmx.com <Tai...@gmx.com> wrote:
> I did build PCs before, but that was literarly a life time ago (early
> 2000's), and since then, I've been with laptops. I was aware of PCI-e
> compatibility, but I did not know to what degree the difference in speed
> might affect the GPU. Would a GTX 1080 work for instance?
There is no real difference between 3.0 and 2.0 even with 4K, Crossfire
and the latest cards so having v2.0 is fine.
As I have stated before nvidia is a bad company and you shouldn't buy
from them, they do not support owner-control, actively hinder linux
driver development and VM gaming.
Don't forget your board standoffs, and don't confuse the PCI-e power
cables with EPS12V.
Since it has been a long time you should brush up and watch some vids
from reputable places, you gotta be careful considering how much $$$ you
have spent :]
>> Hey when you get this let me know if you need any help setting up VM
>> gaming it is very difficult but very rewarding.
>> One gotcha I have noticed is NUMA alignment, each 16 core CPU contains
>> two NUMA nodes and performance will suffer greatly if things are not
>> properly aligned (gets tricker in VM's too)
>>
>>
>> I will definitely do that.
I eagerly await your gaming benchmarks, there are several triple A games
out there that support 16 cores and you must try them.
>> TPM:
>> I am not sure about TPM's I would call ASUS and ask for a board
>> compatible part number.
>>
>> I might have to return the one I got then, it's a Gigabyte TPM module.
Like I said call and ask asus what model number you need for the board.
Ideally you could simply use whatever same-generation of TPM (board is
v1.2 not v2.0) as it uses a simple LPC bus for communication but you
might as well buy whatever asus tells you to so to avoid trouble.
Coreboot devs tested with asus's infineon brand TPM.
I assume you have bought a TPM 2.0, if so that definitely won't work.
>> Newegg Links:
>> I can't view newegg links, you would have to find a OEM link to show me.
>> I would get a 1KW PSU from a reputable company, like I said dual EPS12V,
>> modular and japanese capacitors is what you want.
>>
>>
> I got this one, https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=220-G3-1000-X1
I usually don't recommend evga as I don't like companies who sell both
good and bad products (their lower end stuff is crappy) but that seems
fine, good reviews japanese caps and a nice 10 year warranty.
>> Case Price - no more than $200 unless it includes nice front HDD hot
>> swap bays - Don't use the PSU that comes with the case.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it ended up closer to 400. I got this one
> http://www.norcotek.com/product/rpc-4220/ it was difficult finding EEB
> cases. Depending on the noise it makes, there's a braket that I can switch
> in it to change the 4 80mm fans with 3 120mm fans. In anycase, I wanted a
> case that has wide support for boards (CEB, EEB, ATX and mini ATX) so later
> on I can update the components and not have to reinvenst in the case.
Nice case, pricey but with an HBA or RAID card you can install all the
drives you'll ever want.
It has good reviews that mention the high quality, good choice!
>> I would also get front drive bay HDD enclosures that have a fan
>> otherwise your drives will get hot inside the case and be a pain to
>> service.
>>
> this one does not have a fan, I'll add a braket if I see a need, but I
> think it'll be alright with the 6 fans it has.
Yeah you sure will, since the bays came with the case you won't need
additional cooling as they have already taken care of that (with the
assorted case fans)
Send me links, titles, prices and used/new status for the rest of the
stuff you got and I can look it over.
I mean if we really cared about security, I guess we wouldn't use a gui. Especially if we want to type in commands in a terminal anyways. I guess it depends on your "security model" lmao...
@Tai, have you ever used trisquel? learning about fsf software I really fell in love with their gnome-flashback desktop and deblobbed fsf kernel.