Heater Matrix (Fiesta Mk2)

[list...@liberator-systems.co.uk]

Jim Hearne recently posted a question on the QOC Facebook group about heater matrix.

I  did try several times to post some comments there but my comments never appeared and I gave up so posting here instead.

Just as an aside tbh I find FB incredibly frustrating to use for groups - it is difficult to follow conversations/threads, poor sequencing, endless clicking required,  total waste of screen space, poor search... etc. etc. End of FB moan sorry ;)

Anyway I compared heater matrices the other day ( alloy/plastic V copper/brass). I am trying the all metal type this time as the the others seem prone to failure. The metal replacement is far more substantial - weighs almost twice as much and bigger in all dimensions. The fit inside heater box is very snug so minimal if any sealing foam required - which is great as the Ford type foam used throughout heater box always disintegrates over time and gets blown out when fan is switched on. I have also just replaced all the foam on the heater box flaps with some eva type foam which hopefully will last better.

John

[Jim Hearne]

Hi John,

Thank you for taking the time to keep trying to pass on your message.

I agreed with everything you said about facebook  but unfortunately it seems to be where everybody is going nowadays.

 

Be interesting to hear your results with the all metal one, i had tried one of those many years ago and the heat output seemed a lot less than the plastic/ aluminium ones.

I assumed this was because there are a lot less fins on the all metal ones.

 

Many thanks,

 

Jim

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[list...@liberator-systems.co.uk]

I agree the alloy matrices give out a toasty heat -  I am hoping even if get less heat output  I get better reliability. Time will tell.

When I get some spare time I may test/dissect the failed alloy ones to see if there is a common fail point. One theory I had on fails was they could be the weakest part of an overheated pressurised cooling system and do not handle overheating very well (had plenty of those). I guess they are pressure/leak tested on manufacture but maybe they don't handle cycles of overheating very well.

I forgot to post pic earlier of metal matrix snug fit in box. I have now drilled a few small holes in lowest part of heater box so any dribble from these will hopefully give an early alert to any developing leak and avoid the box filling up like a swmming pool BTDT

[Jim Hearne]

Thank you for the picture, I will have one more go at getting the alloy one to fit and if not i will get one of those.

In my case the matrix failed while the car was unused for over 5 years.

Despite being filled with new orange antifreeze it managed to corrode though the matrix and empty the entire cooling system into the footwells.

Luckily there was no carpet fitted.

I have also drilled a hole in the lowest part of the lower cover, as you say, you can see the first trace of a leak then instead of waiting until the whole lower cover has filled with water.

 

Jim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/5b9ae92d-57dd-45af-a54c-8aeea4120df7n%40googlegroups.com.

[Darren Siepka]

I also agree how horrid FB is( I only have an account to use messenger!)

The ECU group (speeduino ) I contribute to have moved to discord after a short trial of slack. 

This is much nicer for conversation than FB.

Back to the subject.

I also looked for a replacement and was staggered at the quality and the cost of a replacement.

So looking elsewhere I found BMW mini matrixes! They are all ally and are a very close fit. The pipes plug in(also alloy) and could be made to use the original body holes if desired ( I am not) .they also are super cheap,even new!

I am using one of these along with the matching PTC element in my MK3 box on my updated 2+2 build. 

The MK2 matrix is similar .

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/04C033DE6622474DB65BEB0087A38A3D%40JimQuad.

[Jim Hearne]

Funny you say that, i joined a Discord group for old computers and just couldn’t make head or tail of it.

All the messages just seemed to be in time order with all subjects mixed up, i couldn’t work out any way to follow threads or keep track of what i had replied to.

Maybe it was just me but i left after a few days.

 

I will have a look at the Mini matrixs.

 

Jim

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[Matthew Wastell]

Discord is very much like many real time chatting tools from old IRC to modern Slack and even Microsoft teams. 

Many people don’t thread their topics so you just get everyone talking at once, replies mistaken for a different topic and so on. 

Discord and chat platforms in general are really throw away messaging platforms, designed for comments in the moment and what is going on that second.  Like having a conversation in real life really.  If people reply to something from half an hour ago it doesn’t make sense. I’m sure we’ve all had experience of a deep thinker who after being asked something replies half an hour later.  Unless they say “in reply to your question about….” It doesn’t make sense. 

Unless you are forced to thread, (or even given the opportunity to do so easily) it will always be a mess and confuse those who are thinking it’s an asynchronous platform. 

I think this is why we see a general age or tech-ability split between synchronous and asynchronous messaging platforms. 

M

On 19 Jul 2023, at 11:20, Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/D450F946A7984968BCA71165039E478F%40JimQuad.

[Jim Hearne]

Thank you for clarifying that Matthew.

I’m obviously asynchronous messaging person.

 

Jim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/4EC8CC9B-CC83-43CE-B60E-C1C058D5BFC9%40wastell.org.uk.

[Darren Siepka]

I know what you mean about the jumbling of conversation on discord, it is very good for developer conversation but for proper record the traditional forum can't be beat.

I will try and get some pictures of the mini matrix along with the MK3 and MK2 heater boxes and post up.

Darren

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/9922C87F771C4C618F2338BA2E49B38C%40JimQuad.

[mga...@yahoo.com]

Hi all,

 

I’ve been doing some reading on the rules about headlights as for a long time I’ve wanted to improve my 2+2’s headlights, which seem particularly underwhelming after using my modern car.

There’s a lot of conflicting guidance online, which seems to stem from some changes to the MOT rules. So I started there, with the relevant part seeming to be section 4.1.4: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/

 

If I’ve understood it correctly, replacing your halogen bulbs with HID or LED equivalents is forbidden for any car used after 1^st April 1986, and will lead to an automatic failure (‘light source and lamp not compatible’).  But the part that’s of interest to me, the amended rule, seems to state that there is NOT an automatic failure if you have replaced the *entire* headlamp unit with an LED or HID alternative. I’m presuming that they would need to be CE/UK CA marked, or given an E number but, again, that aspect seems to generate conflicting answers – and imported Japan-only or USA-only models seem to be able to pass MOTs just fine without those markings from what I’ve read.

 

There seem to be loads of possible replacement headlight units out there so I was wondering firstly if I’ve understood all of this correctly (anyone know a tame MOT tester?) and secondly if any of you have replaced your Q’s entire original halogen units with an LED or HID alternative. I’d be fascinated to hear what you picked and how it played out.

 

Hope you’re all having a great weekend.

 

Matthew

Q2-275

[Darren Siepka]

Yes my 2+2 head lights ( and flaps) have gone !

I have created a mount with the new 90mm Hella unit and a small indicator( also modular Hella but about 40mm dia) .

The 90mm unit is a bi-xenon , it has a single bulb with a flap to create the dip cutoff pattern needed for mot.

Two additional items are also needed for xenon ( not sure about led), that is headlamp washers and self levelling.

Hella sell universal kits to go with the 90mm products , but the washers are easily and more cheaply done with a universal windscreen wash kit.

Levelling is a little more tricky, the Hella kit uses ultrasonics , I am using OEM lever arm sensors(BMW mini). I am making up a small driver module that will read the inputs and adjust the std OEM headlight motors . I will publish the build details including firmware as open source as I do all my work on GitHub.

My friendly MOT man is going to let me use the beam aligner out of hours to set it up and confirm all is well before the actual MOT test. But I need to finish getting the car back on road before I can do that.

Darren

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[Mick L]

As far as I'm aware they allow hid etc if they have washers and self levelling? Correct my if I am wrong?

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Darren Siepka <dar...@siepka.me.uk>
Sent: 22 July 2023 18:38
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Headlamp upgrades

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/quantumowners/CABxHo%2By2g3f7migPLsXpz5k1UUrVhepk2mGHHYdQ3N%2B2eZHMHA%40mail.gmail.com.

[list...@liberator-systems.co.uk]

The headlight rule change re LED etc. in 2021 was pretty silly IMO and came in for much criticism. Why pick April 1986 as date ? Surely it would be better if all older cars were allowed to improve their halogen style headlights. 

My saloon is 1985 reg so luckily I can legally fit led bulbs. 

With regard MOT test I suspect failure is going to be down to how stringent the individual tester is. Decent brand led replacement bulbs should give correct beam pattern - after all the manufacturer must have spent considerable time and effort developing and testing.  So if beam pattern is correct why fail? One option of course is to just pop in some old H4 bulbs just for the MOT.

John

[Ken Needham]

Hi Mathew.

I have been down the same path as you but considering a change on my Lotus elan

I drew the same conclusion as you and have fitted new led headlamp units

 The car has now been through 3 mot tests without comment.

The units I used are sold by pnmparts.co.uk. The improvement is excellent.

I have done considerable research and for once agree with the mot guidence. Fitting hid or led bulbs in old headlight units results inmuch light scatter. However I have found hid bulbs fitted to older projector lens units work very well

I have fitted hid bulbs in a Alfa spider which has also passed several mots without question

On Sat, 22 Jul 2023, 17:51 mgaskin via Quantum Owners Group, <quantu...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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[bobbycraigis]

Hi have 100 watt halogen bulbs in mine as did Matthew before me (upgraded wiring) which strictly speaking are illegal but never been noticed by any MOT tester.

Bob Craig Q2-063

Sent from my Galaxy

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[John Woodward]

My 2+2 is 1985 registered and the cheap Ebay H4 Led headlight bulbs would have failed the MOT, the tester let me fit the original H4's. I then purchased a pair of Osram H4 Led headlight bulbs, which made a fantastic difference, but a lot of people were flashing me, as I was dazzling them, I then adjusted the headlights to lower the beam slightly and now nobody flashes at me, I can see so much more and the car has passed 2 MOT's with no problems.

[Darren Siepka]

Yes hid and led MUST have either levelling or leveling suspension and washers.

But conversion of a halogen light unit is not allowed at bulb level.

If say you have a light unit with non Fresnel patterned lenses and a complete projector type unit inside , changing that unit if done with correct pattern units is permitted.

It is the Fresnel on the lense and the reflector shape that screws up both hid and led conversion , the beam being disrupted.

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[mga...@yahoo.com]

Excellent, thanks all for those very useful responses. I shall report back once I’ve decided what option to take. 😊

 

Best wishes

 

Matthew