Castor and camber on a saloon and top mounts

[Mick L]

Hello Everyone,

The saloon is slowly coming along but the suspension has been a irritating area to tackle.

First and foremost are mk1 top mounts supposed to have play in them when jacked up? I have refurbed both ours and fitted new bearings and they still do this and the car doesn't have a vague feel. I've never driven it hard yet as I simply don't think it's ready.

Secondly does anyone have any information as regards recommended castor and camber/ toe in and out. Having now fitted camber bolts and having a re-tinker this afternoon after a rather dodgy first geometry set up. 

 It now seems to drive a hell of alot better. But if the mounts are not meant to have play in them I'm guessing it's my final suspension hurdle to get it nice and tight. Unfortunately the mounts are not mounted the same as on the fiesta so your adjustable mounts will do castor not camber as designed.

Cheers 

Mick

[Jim Hearne]

I don't think there should be any play on the Mk1 setup.
Where is the the play ?, between the shock shaft and the bush in the top mount or lower down ?

I know some modern cars do have a lot of play in the top mount when the car is jacked up, like my Wife's Corsa, but it's by design.

Jim

On 04/08/2023 21:17, Mick L wrote:

Hi Jim,

Yeah ours has the nylon spacers on the top of the mounts already.

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From: Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 04 August 2023 19:59
To: Mick L <lawso...@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Castor and camber on a saloon and top mounts

 

The build manual for the saloon says fit an extra spacer in the Mk2 top mount, i guess that would apply to the Mk1 top mount as well.
Needs somebody with an early saloon build manual where the donor was the Mk1 Fiesta.
Pretty sure the toe is parallel.
I have camber adjusting bolts on my 2+2, i will see if i can find the settings i ended up with.

Jim

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[Darren Siepka]

The rubber section of the  MK1 top mounts slowly spread and you get play where the cup sits. 

I originally remade some oversize cups to take up the slack the steel ones had, but it didn't last long as the rubber just isn't compliant due to age so just stretched more .

You can't get ford top mounts anymore BUT Nissan Micra mounts can be used and are cheaply sourced, so a good mod.

Darren

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[Darren Siepka]

By the way the Micra parts are for the MK2 year.

Or if you really want original type outlaw have remade then.

https://www.outlawmotorsport.co.uk/product-page/mk1-fiesta-suspension-top-mounts

[Mick L]

Yeah it seems to in the mount rubber work as you can hear the squelsh on grease I used.

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 04 August 2023 20:24
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com>

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[Mick L]

Sounds like despite the refurb the mounts are toast.

The strut tops were specifically designed for each mount style weren't they so I can't convert to mk2 tops mounts? Mine been a early mk2 makes me unsure if it would work as a solution.

The other option is I just fit some uprated top mounts and accept I'll only have castor on them as I've found some solid alloy ones for £100 over pro comps £150 for fixed or £180 for adjustable that may not fit

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Darren Siepka <dar...@siepka.me.uk>
Sent: 04 August 2023 22:39

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Castor and camber on a saloon and top mounts

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[Darren Siepka]

No unfortunately you can't convert the early style two bolt tops on the saloon body to the doughnut MK2 type.

I have seen those bearing top mounts but remember they will transfer a lot more nvh into the body shell , not to mention impact stresses.

I think the Micra mounts are the way to go if you can't get or don't fancy paying for the ford type tops.

Darren

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[Darren Siepka]

Sorry to double post again, 

But these people offer a cheaper bearing adjustable top to the procomp ones.

https://www.daperformanceengineering.co.uk/products/mk1-fiesta-adjustable-top-mounts

Whichever ones you went for(if that's the route you go)you need to verify they will fit up inside our shock tower due to the material thickness being greater than a metal tower would be 

[Jim Hearne]

If you want to adjust the caster could you not put spacing washers between the anti roll bar / tie bar and the bush in the track control arm ?

You’d only be able to move the axle to the rear doing that so maybe the wrong way.

 

Jim

 

 

From: Mick L

Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 9:27 AM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Castor and camber on a saloon and top mounts

 

Yeah it seems to in the mount rubber work as you can hear the squelsh on grease I used.

---

From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>
Sent: 04 August 2023 20:24
To: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Castor and camber on a saloon and top mounts

 

I don't think there should be any play on the Mk1 setup.
Where is the the play ?, between the shock shaft and the bush in the top mount or lower down ?

I know some modern cars do have a lot of play in the top mount when the car is jacked up, like my Wife's Corsa, but it's by design.

Jim

On 04/08/2023 21:17, Mick L wrote:

Hi Jim,

 

Yeah ours has the nylon spacers on the top of the mounts already.

---

From: Jim Hearne mailto:j...@quantums.info

Sent: 04 August 2023 19:59

To: Mick L mailto:lawso...@hotmail.com

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[Mick L]

That's who I have been talking to at the moment. Those mounts he does will do castor the way we mount them on quantums. There will be a nylong spacer on top still so as long as it clears the area it fits in ok you would still see some vibration absorption through the nylon wouldn't you? I am toying with the idea of 3d printing some of my own from nylon.

And I thought the Micra mounts were for a MK2 top not mk1?

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Darren Siepka <dar...@siepka.me.uk>

Sent: 05 August 2023 09:56

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[Mick L]

The outlaw mounts have been out of stock a long time now sadly. 

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Darren Siepka <dar...@siepka.me.uk>

Sent: 04 August 2023 22:57

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Castor and camber on a saloon and top mounts

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[Mick L]

I actually only wanted camber really but I need new top mounts one way or another so I need to sort something asap sadly.

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>

Sent: 05 August 2023 10:35

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[Darren Siepka]

On the escort MK3 rs1600i they used adjustable tie bars in place of the anti roll bar to permit castor adjustment, with the roll bar attached back to those tie bars with clamps.

As our tie bars are all wiggly(highly technical term there :-) ) they might be tricky to modify but some custom ones may be possible if you could just shim as Jim suggests.

Darren 

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[Jim Hearne]

I had a Ford RS kit for my Mk1 Fiesta that had special tie bars with a longer section machining so you could adjust the camber with spacing washers.

 

I did think of using a RS1600i or Mk3 Escort RS Turbo ( i think that was also adjustable but different to the RS1600i) setup on my Saloon but i think they were silly money even back then.

I seem to remember somebody did it, Eddie maybe.

 

Jim

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[Mick L]

Our car is a mk2 and the only piece of it mk1 is the mounts so my roll bar etc is the fixed to arm kind from escort. It's jus one or the first few made of the MK2 with the mk1 mounts instead of mk2. 

So for me there's no escaping it. I need to find a solution based around the top mount. 

My castor actually looks ok but I just can't bring myself to part with £159 for fixed mounts from pro comp so may aswell look at the mounts that offer some adjustment. Best I have managed is a symmetrical -2.5 camber. I can't get any less with a match so camber adjustment further would have been ideal.

I have to say all these aftermarket companies have poor customer service too and it is really annoying as I'm biting my tongue from telling them where to shove it. Even pro comp simply didn't reply once I send pictures and explained the circular mounts may not fit.... They said they should fit then I said why they may not due to shape  and got nothing back.....no easy sale move on, nice.

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Darren Siepka <dar...@siepka.me.uk>

Sent: 05 August 2023 11:01

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[Mick L]

To be quite frank I am starting to think of making my own mount design and getting it made with adjustment both ways. 

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From: quantu...@googlegroups.com <quantu...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Hearne <j...@quantums.info>

Sent: 05 August 2023 11:13

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