plug in causes audio file start delay in v5

[Philip Perkins]

I’ve used this EQ a great deal in QLAB starting back in v3 up through 4.7.  Today we upgraded our computers to QLAB v5, and after we did we discovered that workspaces that had this EQ in them now had significant delays added to the audio cue starts- like as much as 3 seconds.  Removing the plugin got us back to an instant start.  We have the latest version of everything.  What could be causing this delay?  I know that a big difference between v 4.7 and v5 is that plugins put on individual audio cues now can have their meters or displays operate, or “read” .  SON EQ has a little pretend “analog” meter —could that be the issue?  Laptop tested today was a current M2 Air.

thanks

phil p

[Chris Ashworth]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for this report.  I took a quick look today and was able to reproduce a version of this behavior, although in my case it’s worse:  for me on v5 the plugin will work one time the way I expect it to, but on any subsequent try QLab freezes entirely. 

The freeze is happening within the plugin itself, so I can’t directly determine what the actual deadlock is.

My best guess is that this may be related to how QLab 5 is compiled against newer versions of the macOS SDK (i.e. the code that macOS provides for applications to use).

There are various factors at play here, which are a little hard to break down.  I don’t necessarily see a quick change we could make on the QLab side of things, so it may be worth reaching out to the plugin author to see if they are able to hunt down in more detail what exactly is deadlocking inside their plugin at this moment. We’d be happy to work with them if they’d like to talk to us about it.

Best,

Chris

[Philip Perkins]

I went a little deeper into this today and found that the SON EQ plug, as well as a few others I’ve been using, do NOT cause a start delay of the audio file IF the plugin’s window is OPEN.  If it is CLOSED then it DOES cause the delay I described in my earlier email.   Here are some plugs I’ve been using that do what I’ve described in v5:

—Sonimus "SON EQ"

—Signum Audio “Bute Limiter”

We don’t get freezes with these so far, just start delays as described above.

I tested the plugins listedf below and the had no delay with the plugin window either open or closed:

—Apple:

-Multiband Comp

-Matrix Reverb

-Filter

-Simple Reverb

-AU Pitch

-Brainworx: Millenia NSEQ-2

-Baby Audio: Smooth Operator

-TDR NOVA

-YouLean Loudness Meter

-Ton: Barricade, Voice Pitcher

-Vallhalla: Reverb

In ALL cases if the plug in window is open hitting the “fade out stop” or the Escape key closes the plugin window, even if screen focus is on the plugin window.

Is there a way to keep the plug in windows OPEN intil I close them manually?????

thanks

phil p

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[Chris Ashworth]

Thanks for this update! I’ve updated our tracking issue with this information.

To answer your question: No, there is not currently a way to keep the windows open until you close them manually.

This is indeed the substance of the change between v4 and v5. 

Specifically:

- In v4 we created a duplicate AU just for showing the UI of the plugins. This had some nice benefits, but one major downside which was that since the AU was not the one actually being used it could not draw any information related to audio actually flowing through the AU.

- In v5 we changed it to show the UI of the AU that is actually in use in the cue. The main benefit to this is that the UI can now show metering or other information for the active AU.

However, having AUs open and loaded can be rather costly, as you might have hundreds of cues with AU effects installed on them, so in v5 the AU UI can only be shown when a cue is actively loaded. If the cue is stopped and unloaded, it will close any windows associated with the effects of that cue since those effects are torn down when the cue is stopped.

This is one of several examples of how most AU authors are not imagining programs like QLab when they write their AUs, which can lead to problematic implementations when used in QLab.

-C

[Erik Hedin]

"Most AU authors are not imagining programs like QLab". I can understand that.

Has the time come for Figure 53 to write their own AU plugins that runs seamlessly in QLab?

A reverb, a delay, an EQ and a distortion plugin from Figure53 please!

Best wishes,

Erik

_______________________________________________
Erik Hedin

Composer & Sound Designer

www.ljudet.com

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[Philip Perkins]

The way I used to get around the plugins not having metering in v3-4 was to put the plug I wanted to do work with on an output bus (where the meters DID work), get the plug in work done or close, save the settings to a user preset and then add that same plug to the individual cue (and deleteing the plug on the output bus) and pull up the user preset.   I’m glad to see that this work-around still works AND that those output bus plugin windows STAY OPEN during playback and stop.   

I also just found that the plugins I was having start-delays with when on individual cues do NOT have that delay when on an output bus, with the window open or closed.

For the future…please F53 folks find a way to make the plug meters work and have the windows stay open!  Working this new way is non-intuitive, illogical and tedious!

phil p

[Philip Perkins]

And multiband comps, pitch shift, de-harshers….

phil p

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[Chris Ashworth]

I hear you — and I’d never say never — but of course there are entire companies devoted entirely to building audio effect plugins; it’s not a trivial undertaking, and we are not a large company!

I’m sure folks on this group can share lots of favorite plugin sources, but here’s one I’ve heard some Figure 53 teammates recommend:

https://www.fabfilter.com 

[Philip Perkins]

I mean one that can have windows that stay open!!

thx

phil p

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[Chris Ashworth]

It may be possible to refine the behavior of keeping AU GUI windows open — it would involve preventing any cue with an open effect window from ever being unloaded, which would have its own problems — but this is true about any AU that could ever be written. There is no way for us to write an AU that behaves differently.

-C

[Chris Ashworth]

Granted, we could probably build something that is not strictly an AU to achieve this, so point taken there.

It’s all just to say: some of this stuff is maybe a little more complicated than it seems at first!

-C