Proposal-New PUFN Group for Job Postings

[Miranda Westrick]

Hello Everyone,

I have enjoyed being on the PUFN listserv for the past few years. Recently, there has been an increase in job postings. While this is extremely valuable, it is flooding the group each day. 

I have found myself deleting most emails as it is difficult to separate the job listings from the general information posts. 

I propose we split the group into PUFN and PUFNJobs. 

Would this be valuable? I believe we would see increased engagement for both types of postings. I am happy to help organize this effort. 

Kind regards,

Miranda

[Denis Cockerham]

I agree 100% 

Denis the Beekeeper🐝

On Jul 16, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Miranda Westrick <miranda.e...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[christinec...@gmail.com]

Wonderful Idea.  Thanks for the suggestion and for taking it on.  Greatly appreciated.

[martaco...@gmail.com]

I'm not sure if y'all already do this, but if you change your membership settings from "each email" to "abridged" you will no longer get emails about each posting, it will just be an email once a week with a list of all recent posts. That might make it feel more manageable rather than creating an entire new group?

[Jean Gajary]

I often post about needing help for one day of work at our place, and love this as a resource. Wondering where this would fit? Seems different than a permanent or seasonal job.

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[helenurba...@gmail.com]

That is a good idea !

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 17, 2021, at 11:02 AM, christinec...@gmail.com <christinec...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wonderful Idea.  Thanks for the suggestion and for taking it on.  Greatly appreciated.

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[Nathan Kleinman]

PUFN has over 2000 members. In no other forum in this region are so many crunchy farmy people in one place. It's am indispensable tool for both job posters and job seekers. A new forum would take years to catch up to PUFN in terms of reach, if it ever does. And I'd hate to see a stigma develop against all job postings here in the meantime. 

There've been about 15 jobs posted here over the past month, or roughly one every two days. I have no problem with that pace. (Wouldn't have a problem if it were twice that.) As was just pointed out, folks can set up "digest" mode for themselves if it's that annoying. 

I frankly think it would be destructive to ban job postings here. I'm not looking for a job, nor hiring anyone anytime soon -- but I often pass on listings, so I know how useful PUFN is. We're talking about livelihoods here. We ought to think long and hard before we upset this apple cart.

I'll also add that I actually consider PUFN job postings their own form of "general information posts," in that they inform about who's hiring, what kind of jobs are available, and therefore what's happening in general in the farming/gardening/landscaping/environmental community in Philly. And I find the debates that have followed some job postings here lately  (which I understand some might find annoying) to be instructive and helpful. PUFN gives the large and diverse community of farmers in Philly a public forum for discussing critical issues and holding each other accountable. I'd hate to see that lost.

Nate

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[Asia Simmons]

Thanks Nathan, I appreciate your email and I agree completely. 

Asia 

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[Kristin Horst]

I’m going to third this. Why intentionally divide the landowners/job creators from the folks who are probably not aspiring to always be their helpers? This move would feel a bit classist to me and I do not support it. Let’s all stick together so we can keep learning together. Thanks for reading.

- Kristin 

On Jul 18, 2021, at 8:22 AM, Asia Simmons <asia.si...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Jen Sanders]

Appreciate your stance and agree whole-heartedly, Nate. Just as gardens grow, we as humans need to help each other grow together. Very educational reading PUFN job postings/responses lately. Thank you to the voices who have been speaking their truths. 

Jen

🕊

On Jul 18, 2021, at 8:22 AM, Asia Simmons <asia.si...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Meenal Raval]

I concur with Nate. I'm not seeking employment, but enjoy reading the job listings. I do often forward these postings to others; we've no idea quite how many people seek outdoor Earth healing work! 

No change please. Suggest members delete if they don't want to read a post. 

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[Kirk Wattles]

It seems like there are several parts to the suggested change:

  • A second listserv/forum for job postings,

  • A ban on job postings in the current PUFN group,

  • A nebulous grey zone relating to discussion of the job market in Philadelphia, and

  • Ongoing discussion of this grey zone and the lines to be drawn and enforced

I'm sometimes irritated at the job postings, especially at the (implied) difficult work conditions and relatively low pay.  But for me it's a reminder of what 'urban farming' means for a lot of the people who are doing it.  My own interests are oriented to trees and shrubs, in particular.  Many of the job postings say a lot about landscaping and tree care in actual practice.  I suppose that's not 'farming' for many on the list or they'd rather not think about that side of things. Maybe that's at the root of the current discomfort.  But will a ban on those posts solve either of the problems — irritating posts in the group, and conditions for many who are doing the actual work?

--

Kirk Wattles

kwat...@verizon.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Jen Sanders <dirtce...@gmail.com>
To: asia.si...@gmail.com
Cc: nathank...@gmail.com; Chris Carrington <christinec...@gmail.com>; Philadelphia Urban Farm Network <pu...@googlegroups.com>; helenurba...@gmail.com
Sent: Sun, Jul 18, 2021 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [pufn] Proposal-New PUFN Group for Job Postings

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pufn/0C6DFAAA-30D3-4DB7-B729-8813D14B127B%40gmail.com

.

[Jean Gajary]

I agree with Nate. My partner also reminded me that most of the help we hire through PUFN actually get the post secondhand through someone they knew on the list serve that forwarded the post to them.

Kirk brings up interesting points. I am not an urban farmer, but care deeply about the environment, try to practice principles of earth care and earth share in my life, and fully stand in support of urban farmers and all who are trying to live more regeneratively. In my 10 years on this list serve I have felt that this list serve includes all such people and values, not just for the urban farmers. 

Jean

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 18, 2021, at 9:53 AM, 'Kirk Wattles' via Philadelphia Urban Farm Network <pu...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Brian Henderson]

I also agree with Nate on this.

I'm not hiring or looking for a job and live in NY. I'm still part of this group for the discussions as well as to keep up to date on things going on on the region.

The job postings are part of that.

Brian

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[Kermit O]

I concur with everyone who says we should not separate the boards. I joined PUFN due to my budding (and now massive) interest in urban agriculture, and at the time I was trying to figure out my "next move" after leaving the teaching profession. The kinds of jobs that come through this board are ones that were completely off my radar. I didn't come here looking for jobs, but because of the postings I was exposed to all new possibilities for work. I can't even tell you how important that has been for me. 

[WILLIAM MARSTON]

Keep the job postings as they are. 

I appreciate the original poster here who pointed out that the abridged subscription setting eliminates them, because over the decades I have occasionally changed my subscription setting, and I don’t recall realizing that I was eliminating the job postings (blush).

My ‘role’ as a reader/member here are those of an ally, a somewhat disabled & retired green architect. Thus I find the greatest strength in the discussion is Nate Kleinman’s: “...  I often pass on listings, so I know how useful PUFN is. We're talking about livelihoods here. We ought to think long and hard before we upset this apple cart.”

Bill Marston's straight-six iPhone

On Jul 18, 2021, at 11:15 AM, 'Kermit O' via Philadelphia Urban Farm Network <pu...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I concur with everyone who says we should not separate the boards. I joined PUFN due to my budding (and now massive) interest in urban agriculture, and at the time I was trying to figure out my "next move" after leaving the teaching profession. The kinds of jobs that come through this board are ones that were completely off my radar. I didn't come here looking for jobs, but because of the postings I was exposed to all new possibilities for work. I can't even tell you how important that has been for me. 

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[Andrew Chelius]

I agree with everyone who says that we shouldn't separate the jobs and other listings. I've passed on and responded to some of these job posts, and it has been a wonderful resource. 

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 9:15 AM 'Kermit O' via Philadelphia Urban Farm Network <pu...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I concur with everyone who says we should not separate the boards. I joined PUFN due to my budding (and now massive) interest in urban agriculture, and at the time I was trying to figure out my "next move" after leaving the teaching profession. The kinds of jobs that come through this board are ones that were completely off my radar. I didn't come here looking for jobs, but because of the postings I was exposed to all new possibilities for work. I can't even tell you how important that has been for me. 

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[Roxanne Christensen]

Hi All. For me, demonstrating the economic value of urban farming in order to open up the farming profession to many more people, is what got me involved in it here in Philly in the mid-90's. I have been a member and watched this group develop ever since it was started, which I think was in 2007.

 

Now that urban farm businesses are slowly starting to take shape now, I think, will help strengthen the cause. So it seems to me to be important and appropriate to preserve this as one group to help bridge the ideological and the practical. 

--Roxanne

SPIN-Farming

www.spinfarming.com

 

From: pu...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Chelius
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 11:49 AM
To: ker...@pm.me
Cc: Philadelphia Urban Farm Network <pu...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pufn] Proposal-New PUFN Group for Job Postings

 

I agree with everyone who says that we shouldn't separate the jobs and other listings. I've passed on and responded to some of these job posts, and it has been a wonderful resource. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pufn/CAOpm33_BGKZDGPDbUQuNNxsQF4QTdnuHJBHSLC%2B5NVogrbF2OQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chrys Aleki]

Admittedly, I haven’t been in this group for very long but I found a job through here and I appreciate seeing the new opportunities. I can understand how it might be inconvenient to people who aren’t looking and I would be open to joining a second group if that’s what the group decides, but I have seen the value of having the job postings in this group firsthand. 

Chrys

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 8:35 AM Kristin Horst <kri...@kristinhorst.com> wrote:

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Sent from Gmail Mobile

[Emma Sabin]

I agree with Nate.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Nathan Kleinman
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 1:02 AM
To: helenurba...@gmail.com
Cc: Chris Carrington; Philadelphia Urban Farm Network
Subject: Re: [pufn] Proposal-New PUFN Group for Job Postings

 

PUFN has over 2000 members. In no other forum in this region are so many crunchy farmy people in one place. It's am indispensable tool for both job posters and job seekers. A new forum would take years to catch up to PUFN in terms of reach, if it ever does. And I'd hate to see a stigma develop against all job postings here in the meantime. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pufn/CADNnKkgsLNUyrbfU59cZHun3Jn0gvsXQPTyioFC99gLHBV5jBg%40mail.gmail.com.

 

[Lynn Robinson]

I agree with Nate on this.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pufn/4D5A895D-2C09-42A9-A779-9E62CD644D45%40hxcore.ol.