Help with optimal workflow / batch processing - 12mm Samyang Sony A7Rii 4 shots around, 1 zenith, 2 nadir

[Alex B]

Hi All,

Long time fan of PTGui but I recently changed my setup from a Canon and 8mm Sigma lens to a larger resolution setup using Sony A7Rii and a Samyang 12mm lens.

I am getting quite good results but am hoping my workflow can be improved as I'm having to manually stitch and add control points for every pano, I have tried batch stitching and using project templates after searching through this forum for tips but can't seem to get anything that works. I wonder if this is because I manually change the angles on the pano head which make it impossible to apply a project template due to the slight differences in the angles of the zenith and nadir shots? 

Previously with just 4 shots around on an 8mm I would batch process with about a 90% success rate. Easy peasy! Not so much when I add in zenith and nadir shots it seems...

The quick answer might be to just switch back to an 8mm lens but I love the higher resolution panos and so maybe I'm missing something that could speed up my workflow?

Thanks in advance!

Here is my shooting technique:

Equipment: 

Sony A7Rii

Samyang 12mm f 2.8 lens

NN4 pano head

EZ Leveller

I have checked and tried to setup what looks like the correct no-parallax point.

Technique:

Level for the main direction I'm heading

Shoot 4 around at 0°, portrait

Tilt the camera facing up to around 60° to take a zenith shot

Tilt the camera facing down to around 90° to take 1 nadir

Rotate the pano head whilst facing down to take a 2nd nadir (because the side bar of the NN4 head blocks a large part of the floor)

Notes: I am also aware of different shooting techniques with this setup, i.e. using a different pano head and tilting the camera diagonal and just take 5 shots around, but I don't have that pano head so haven't tried it.

Here is my current PTGui workflow after I have ran the images through Lightroom and then through Photomatix to make HDR's (I know that in itself is a little overkill but I like to clean up WB and exposures before stitching, I then do it again after stitching!):

- Load in pre HDR'd images to a new PTGui project: 4 shots around at 0°, 1 zenith at 60° up 2 nadir at 90° down.

- Hit align images

- Have a quick look, usually stitches are OK but the levelling is always out

- Manually mask out the NN4 side arm from the nadir shots and any stray legs of either myself or passers by

- Manually add vertical control points to the 4 shots around

- Click optimise

- Check the pano, make sure it looks level and stitches not too bad

- Generate more control points

- Delete worst control points automatically and re-optimise. If results are 'good' or above then I live with it, otherwise I manually check control points table and remove the high numbers - usually just a couple. I usually have to repeat this step a few times before getting the best results.

- At this point I'm usually down to a result of good or very good.

- Save and send to batch stitcher

The above process is taking me a couple of minutes at best for each pano and is very tedious work. With large jobs / lots of panos it's becoming a real killer.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Due to attachment limits I've uploaded some sample panos with images and a project file (without doing anything and then when they've been optimised) in case anyone wants to have a go. Here is the download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/18hLCwdOtziS-CeuN8_7mQop6LB20V8zz/view?usp=sharing there are 5 panos and just over 1gb in total size.

Currently using version 11-11. I'll grab the new release soon but don't see any major changes so have held off.

Thanks in advance, any help or advice is hugely appreciated!!

Alex

[John Houghton]

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 12:22:57 PM UTC+1, Alex B wrote:

Here is my shooting technique:

Equipment: 

Sony A7Rii

Samyang 12mm f 2.8 lens

NN4 pano head

EZ Leveller

I have checked and tried to setup what looks like the correct no-parallax point.

I had a look at the Pano 1 project and generated a good project file (at https://www.sendspace.com/file/o37xza ) but have the following observations:

Your panohead setup can be improved by paying attention to the nadir parallax.  The two nadir shots show significant parallax shift of the head relative to the ground as you rotate the head.  The knob does not remain centered as it should.

Furthermore, your project has mixed image orientations. While PTGui V11 now supports mixed orientations, it still cannot cope with false orientation data delivered by the camera's orientation sensor when the camera points directly down (or up). It's therefore best if you turn off the auto rotate feature in the camera, and deliver all the images to PTGui in the same orientation - all portrait or all landscape.  My project file uses the nadir images in portrait orientation, rotated in Photoshop.  Because of the parallax at the nadir, I applied viewpoint correction to the nadir images and got improved optimization figures.  I also deleted all of the points on clouds (which probably moved between shots).

John

 

[Al Christenson]

First, I'm a newbie so take what I say with large grains of salt ..... 

I'm responding because I shoot with Samyang 12mm 2.8 lenses (on canon 6D) using nodal ninja R20 (7.5 degree tilt). NN told me that with this lenses portrait I needed to shoot 6 - 8 shots around. I'm shooting 8 around, and I don't need to shoot up or down. After I create equirectangular I save the file and fix the hole in the bottom in Corel (or Lightroom or Photoshop or .... ) then save that, reopen in PTGui to stitch.  Zenith needs no fixing.  No issues so far.  

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[John Houghton]

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 5:58:48 PM UTC+1, Photo-Al wrote:

First, I'm a newbie so take what I say with large grains of salt ..... 

I'm responding because I shoot with Samyang 12mm 2.8 lenses (on canon 6D) using nodal ninja R20 (7.5 degree tilt). NN told me that with this lenses portrait I needed to shoot 6 - 8 shots around. I'm shooting 8 around, and I don't need to shoot up or down. After I create equirectangular I save the file and fix the hole in the bottom in Corel (or Lightroom or Photoshop or .... ) then save that, reopen in PTGui to stitch.  Zenith needs no fixing.

That's interesting, as the images in Alex's projects have to be tilted up 13.4 degrees to just close the zenith hole, and more would be desirable.

John 

[Alex B]

Thank you John and Photo-Al for taking the time to respond. 

Photo-Al really interesting to hear, I have tried a tilt upwards to remove the need for a zenith but I might have to give it another try.

John - thank you for your in-depth response. I see the movement in the nadir now which I will correct and see how that impacts things. With the images already taken, I've added optimisation to the nadir shots and rotated them prior to PTGui and am getting a better result, sometimes without needing to add in vertical control points for the horizon which is great.

Thanks again.

Alex

[Alex B]

Thanks for your reply Photo-Al. Just out of interest, what settings do you usually use on the lens? I've settled on F9 with the focus ring set halfway between the 3ft / 1m and infinity marking. That seems to give me sharp enough results for indoors and close up walls / objects and not too out of focus distant objects - although I would prefer if it was sharper in the longer distance range but when I've either moved up F numbers to say F16, the quality drops and if I move further towards infinity, any close up walls or objects dramatically drop out of focus. 

What has your experience been?

Here's an example project of mine with these settings: https://tour.beckislemuseum.org.uk/ I tend to over sharpen the panos in post to counter for the focussing so if you zoom in you will see it starts to get noisey, but at standard zoom levels I think it looks quite good.

Any feedback / thoughts appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Alex

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 5:58:48 PM UTC+1, Photo-Al wrote:

[JPS]

I'm also using the Samyang 12mm f/2.8, on a Nikon D800 ! I have tried (handheld, with a plumb-line)) 1 shot 20° up, 1 20° down, 1 20° up and 1 20° down ! The Zenith and Nadirs are largely covered and (as long as one keep the NPP well centered) the panorama stitches without problem !

[John Houghton]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 10:09:12 AM UTC+1, Alex B wrote:

Thanks for your reply Photo-Al. Just out of interest, what settings do you usually use on the lens? I've settled on F9 with the focus ring set halfway between the 3ft / 1m and infinity marking. That seems to give me sharp enough results for indoors and close up walls / objects and not too out of focus distant objects - although I would prefer if it was sharper in the longer distance range but when I've either moved up F numbers to say F16, the quality drops and if I move further towards infinity, any close up walls or objects dramatically drop out of focus.

Alex, I wouldn't necessarily rely on the distance setting markings on the lens as these are quite often inaccurate.  Set the focus distance by focusing on something the required distance away using live view, measuring from the focal plane mark on the camera body (a small circle with a line through it).  Read up about hyperfocal distances and depth of field - e.g https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/dof-calculator.htm , but treat any results from such calculators merely as a guide - to be validated by running tests.  The loss of image quality for smaller apertures is due to diffraction.

John

[Al Christenson]

I've used settings very similar to yours, F8 but could go to F10, ISO @ 800 since the canon 6D produces good images at higher ISO settings as well. F8 works since I'm shooting indoors in homes and room distances aren't too far.  

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[Al Christenson]

Perhaps should also mention I’m shooting in Portrait mode, thus need for 6 – 8 around and help to eliminate zenith.  In equirectangular -90, fixing the hole in the bottom is quite easy.

[Al Christenson]

Alex B ---- Just looked at your pano link, and I think it looks quite good!  Nicely done.  Out of curiosity, what do you use to create the walking tour pano?  Perhaps this is a topic you and I should take off-line?

 

Thanks

Al

 

From: pt...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pt...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex B
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 2:09 AM
To: PTGui Support <pt...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [PTGui] Re: Help with optimal workflow / batch processing - 12mm Samyang Sony A7Rii 4 shots around, 1 zenith, 2 nadir

 

Thanks for your reply Photo-Al. Just out of interest, what settings do you usually use on the lens? I've settled on F9 with the focus ring set halfway between the 3ft / 1m and infinity marking. That seems to give me sharp enough results for indoors and close up walls / objects and not too out of focus distant objects - although I would prefer if it was sharper in the longer distance range but when I've either moved up F numbers to say F16, the quality drops and if I move further towards infinity, any close up walls or objects dramatically drop out of focus. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/6f9a2ab3-4b93-4c40-a88c-db12b93375a1%40googlegroups.com.

[JPS]

An example of Samyang 12mm. f/2.8 at f/8, lens distance set at 90cm., shot handheld with "philopod". ! 4 shots around UP/DOWN 20°, no Nadir no Zenith !

I shot in RAW, converted in TIF and reduced (fo the example) at 2670x4000 pixels JPG. The files have been stitched with PTGui 11.3, 100% auto, no CP added ! I just played a bit with VP Optimisation on more than 1 image, for a better stitch !

I joined the *.pts file too !

You can get the "4 shots + pts file.zip" at https://www.dropbox.com/s/ga70u3l0ykseza4/4%20shots%20%2B%20pts%20file.zip?dl=0

[Alex B]

Thanks - I use KRPano and just code in the hotspots and other features. If you're happy to get stuck into coding KRPano is amazing. If you prefer the software to do the coding for you, try Kolor's Panotour Pro or Garden Gnome's Pano2VR software, both really good. 

[Erik Krause]

Am 09.07.2018 um 11:09 schrieb Alex B:
> Just out of interest, what settings do you
> usually use on the lens? I've settled on F9 with the focus ring set halfway
> between the 3ft / 1m and infinity marking.

On a full frame camera you can safely use f/11 before diffraction cuts
in.Actually the diffraction blur gets larger than the pixel distance at f/13

If you focus using zoomed in liveview you need to have the aperture full
open at f/2.8 of course.

--
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de