Polymer Future: Without Framework? Dart?

[Samuel Schwebel]

Hi,

I need to build a large business application. 

I love Polymer and if possible, I would like to use Polymer without another libraries and frameworks like Angular, React, etc. I read on Internet and normaly the recomendation is to use Polymer + anthor framework.

I have used Dart Lang too. A nice and modern language.

Then, I would like to get an opinion:

1. Can I to development a large business application just with Polymer without another frameworks?

2. Is there plans to implement Polymer in native Dart lang, like Angular has been implemented?  (I know that there is a project, but it is a wrapper from Polymer (java script): https://github.com/dart-lang/polymer-dart)

Thanks,

Samuel.

[Justin Fagnani]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Samuel Schwebel <samuel....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I need to build a large business application. 

I love Polymer and if possible, I would like to use Polymer without another libraries and frameworks like Angular, React, etc. I read on Internet and normaly the recomendation is to use Polymer + anthor framework.

I have used Dart Lang too. A nice and modern language.

Then, I would like to get an opinion:

1. Can I to development a large business application just with Polymer without another frameworks?

Absolutely. We have many large apps at Google built with just Polymer. We're continuing to work on more app-level features like the new Carbon router (in beta). Data-management and APIs are an area where we're not very prescriptive, and there are a number of techniques out there, including using libraries popular with other frameworks, like Redux.

2. Is there plans to implement Polymer in native Dart lang, like Angular has been implemented?  (I know that there is a project, but it is a wrapper from Polymer (java script): https://github.com/dart-lang/polymer-dart)

None that I know of.

I'm not sure how well supported Polymer.dart is right now. It doesn't seem to be receiving many commits at this point. I've been using TypeScript recently, and while it's not Dart, with strict linting it's quite an improvement on vanilla JS. There's a PolymerTS project that lets you use very nice class declarations for Polymer elements.

Cheers,

  Justin

Thanks,

Samuel.

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[Samuel Schwebel]

Hi Justin,

Thanks for reply. It is nice to know that internally Google is using only Polymer on large projects. This gives us the confidence to decide on.

About data-management I feel that could have a definition/implementation pattern like MVC, MVP e MVVM (concern separation) more clear on Polymer with data-model focus and an official datatable component too.This is very important for business applications that are focused intensivante data.

The decision by Dart lang is almost taken on our project, importants features to consider in large business applications as typed language, code structure - "no spaguetti", among others. It is a pity that there is no official plan for a native version of Dart for Polymer. But we will try to use the wrapper library available on pub Dart. About ProjectTS perhaps could be the way, but seeing the latest information, for example, Adwords decision to use Dart, Angular have a native Dart think the future trend is that technologies/libraries could also be implemented Dart lang. 

Cheers,

Samuel.

 

[Jim Trainor]

I have 45K lines of dart code sitting as a service layer under 10K lines of Polymer (html/css/javascript).  That’s the javascript Polymer not the dart Polymer. The dart polymer wasn’t ready for prime time when I was ready to code my gui.  There is no problem knitting the two together.  If I was starting from scratch today I’d consider the pure Dart option rather than the combo, but i have no problem with the combo. In fact I like a clean separation between gui and services, and don’t bind a break in the language at that point since there are differing requirement at work. I do not use any other javascript framework with my Polymer code other than page.js for routing. BTW, mine is a consumer application not a business app.

I use js_bridge to implement the service interface on top of my dart code. Dart’s js integration support has evolved since I wrote js_bridge so that may no longer be the best approach, but it works well.

[Justin Fagnani]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Samuel Schwebel <samuel....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Justin,

Thanks for reply. It is nice to know that internally Google is using only Polymer on large projects. This gives us the confidence to decide on.

About data-management I feel that could have a definition/implementation pattern like MVC, MVP e MVVM (concern separation) more clear on Polymer with data-model focus and an official datatable component too.This is very important for business applications that are focused intensivante data.

The decision by Dart lang is almost taken on our project, importants features to consider in large business applications as typed language, code structure - "no spaguetti", among others. It is a pity that there is no official plan for a native version of Dart for Polymer. But we will try to use the wrapper library available on pub Dart.

Which package is that? I'm not aware of any that are regularly updated. The current polymer package on Pub uses Polymer 0.5.x, which is very, very old and very, very, very unsupported. Other wrappers like polymerjs haven't been updated in 9 months. This may or may not be much an issue right now, but we're pushing forward on Polymer a lot, and I suspect that eventually the wrapper would need to be updated or cause problems. This will likely be especially true as the new Web Components standards are adopted.

[Samuel Schwebel]

Hi Justin,

This package: https://pub.dartlang.org/packages/polymer

There is a Release Candidate to Polymer 1.0 (1.0.0-rc.16). Release Candidate  are at the end of the version list. Not in date order!

See:

Another details about Polymer/Dart 1.0 we have here: https://github.com/dart-lang/polymer-dart/wiki

Cheers,

Samuel.

[Darin Hensley]

Not sure why you would need Dart. I've been using Polymer and it's great. For some examples of large scale polymer apps(polymer alone) checkout https://events.google.com/io2016/ and https://events.google.com/io2015/ .

[Samuel Schwebel]

Hi Darin,

According to ours experiences in the development of large business applications, there are important premises that must be observed when we choose the language/technologies: 

a) Modern technologies. p.i. VM, isolates concurrency, async, web components, performance, scripting lang and multi resources access (database, ws, io).

b) Maintenance and technological simplicity to the system as a whole. p.i. The same language on server side and client side, no several frameworks, no spaguetti code, the best standards and paradigms like scalable, object-oriented and typed language.

Among other issues, Dart lang addresses many of these points.

Here you can see more discuss about Dart and other langs like Javascript, Java, Typescript.

Ours tests with small business aplication development in Dart/Polymer was an excellent and enthusiastic experience. 

We love Dart. and Polymer too. Currently the initiative for Polymer Dart is a wrapper JavaScript. We believe that if it  had a native Dart initiative in the performance could be better beyond what we would have a guarantee of evolution Dart / Polymer  The two together would be a great couple!

Cheers,

Samuel.

[mdiasinf...@gmail.com]

Hi Samuel,

Have you made any progress since April?

Just type Dart Polymer Marcello Dias in google and you´ll se how many years I´m waiting for that.

The Problem is that all resources were used in things like Dartino,Flutter and specially Angular(The actual all that and a bag of ships).

At least in Angular it seems that Google took the right decision.

A native Dart Polymer is an utopic dream by this time.

It seems that the Polymer Data Aware components will come from third parties like Vaadin,I´m trying to figure out

why nobody in Google beleaves in this kind of Stuff,maybe they think Angular is kind of a Swiss knife.

At least in the last Three months things started to become more clear than in the last 5 years.

I myself gave up with Dart until things get clearer ,Polymer Dart reaches 1.0,We´ve good data components,and a book

to show how to use them.

The Server side seems rather unfinished to me also.

Are you using Webstorm?

Regards,

Marcello Dias

[Samuel Schwebel]

Hi Marcello,

Yes, I am using Webstorm.

Polymer is very nice. But native in Dart I have no more hope for now.

I am going to invest in Angular 2 for Dart now. See http://news.dartlang.org/2016/07/angulardart-is-going-all-dart.html. We will have Material Design Components in Angular similar  Polymer.

About Dart server-side I think that it needs more resources yes, like official speciftications and/or core libraries to access (database, webservices, etc.), object-relational mapping, distributed transactions, threads, etc.

Regards,

Samuel.