On Jan 9, 2024, at 5:56 PM, Ron Baiman <rpba...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Ron and Herb, thanks for sharing this article. It includes the absurd consensus dogma “Unless nations transform their economies and rapidly transition away from polluting fuels, experts warn, this level of warming will unravel ecological webs and cause human-built systems to collapse.”
There is no prospect of such rapid economic transformation, and even if there were, it would not save systems from collapse. Carbon action even at impossible scale would still be too small and slow to mitigate climate risk in the short term. The only action that could make any difference in time is higher albedo. As Herb says, later is too late.
I am astonished that such nonsense remains solemnly agreed and no one even debates it in the mass media except for denialists. Talk about the emperor’s new clothes.
Fossil fuel use is going up, not down. The absence of political interest in rapid transition makes the consensus dogma a stupid proposal. It is impossible. These “experts” are living in Wonderland.
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Regards
Robert Tulip
By Scott Dance
Scott Dance is a reporter for The Washington Post covering extreme weather news and the intersections between weather, climate, society and the environment. He joined The Post in 2022 after more than a decade at the Baltimore Sun, where he most recently focused on climate change and the environment.
By Sarah Kaplan
Sarah Kaplan is a climate reporter covering humanity's response to a warming world. She previously reported on Earth science and the universe.
Veronica Penney is a climate graphics reporter at The Washington Post. She previously worked as a data reporter on Colorado Public Radio's investigative team and covered climate change as a reporting fellow at the New York Times.
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Rob, Increasing biomass is essential, as you say. The point I was making is that increasing albedo is by far the fastest possible climate protection response, if the politics can be sorted. Growing trees at scale will take much longer than rebrightening marine clouds. It is about sequencing. All cost-effective cooling measures need funds. The paralysis is just crazy. The 2023 temperature result should engage the public in a response like the Covid vaccines. But while WaPo etc keep up the delusional fantasy of emission reduction alone there is no hope. Climate policy needs a paradigm shift. Later is too late.
From: 'rob de laet' via Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC) <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 9:38 PM
To: 'H simmens' <hsim...@gmail.com>; 'Ron Baiman' <rpba...@gmail.com>; rob...@rtulip.net
Cc: 'healthy-planet-action-coalition' <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; 'Planetary Restoration' <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>; 'Healthy Climate Alliance' <healthy-clim...@googlegroups.com>; 'geoengineering' <geoengi...@googlegroups.com>; Bru Pearce <b...@envisionation.org>; Peter Bunyard <peter....@btinternet.com>; Peter Paap <peter...@farmtree.earth>
Subject: Re: [HPAC] RE: [prag] Full text of WaPo "Scientists knew 2023s would be hot!" article
Dear Robert,
Agree that the tunnel vision focus on carbon will lead to collapse. Agree that increasing albedo is an important way out, but it is not the only viable path to avert collapse. The cooling power of water can stop the heating up of the Earth, not just by increasing albedo but by increasing the transport of heat back out into space via evapotranspiration and the self-reinforcing feedback loop of a revived biotic pump, increasing precipitation over dried out continents.
Photosynthesis turns liquid water into vapor, via the leaves of trees and plants, as we all know, but the power of this process seems to be underestimated.
Water vapor transports heat up into the higher atmosphere, where it forms clouds and ejects the heat out into space, cooling the surface of the Earth in several ways, including through increased albedo. This process also creates the winds to carry rains into the interior of continents, aka the biotic pump.
Understanding these intricate processes opens ways to fight climate change much more effective than just focusing on CO2. According to calculations made by Peter Bunyard and myself, reforesting or transitioning to agroforestry an area of about 250 million ha of land in the tropical zone, or the increase of evapotranspiration via a regenerated biosphere of about 10.000 km3 of liquid water would be enough stop the planet from heating up further, while the world goes through the slow motion of decarbonization. Bru Pearce proposes a doubling of living biomass from 550 Gt to 1100 Gt to reverse the destruction set in from the start of human civilization (defined as city forming, nothing more) and agriculture. A combination of measures including a program of cloud brightening in the right places and ocean biology restoration may be sufficient to avert collapse. We obviously have to act fast, at some point in the near future our collective agency to deploy these measures at the scale and speed necessary to avert collapse, will falter sooner rather than later.
Best,
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Hi Chris and everyone,
I think we must focus on averting catastrophes, rather than wondering how we could adapt to them. I believe that the highest-risk catastrophes arise from tipping point processes in the Arctic. Keeping the global mean surface temperature below 1.5C was supposed to avert the triggering of these tipping processes. But actually these processes were activated around 1980 when the global temperature we around 0.5C. The only way to halt and reverse these tipping processes is with SRM.
The climate crisis is upon us. The rapid warming of the Arctic since 1980 (four times the global average) has led to a reduced Arctic-tropics temperature gradient which puts less energy into the jet stream wave and is no doubt responsible for the dramatic growth in extremes of weather: droughts, heatwaves, wildfires and flooding. A similar disruption of jet stream behaviour in the Southern Hemisphere may be responsible for the growth in extremes in that half of the planet. SRM is our only hope of reversing these trends.
Of course we should have a long-term goal, and now we can say with reasonable confidence that the goal should be the restoration of atmospheric greenhouse gases, global temperatures and Arctic temperature and albedo to 1980 levels or better. The restoration of Arctic temperature and albedo implies refreezing the Arctic.
I think we can be pretty confident that refreezing the Arctic is both possible and extremely urgent. Preparations for large-scale deployment should start this year: the leading candidates being SAI, MCB using seawater spray, and Ocean Pasture Restoration (which has a direct cooling effect besides CDR).
At the NOAC meeting on Monday I asked people to read and consider what I wrote for my “Hope for 2024”.
So what are all the points that are crucial to get agreed in order to give us hope for decisive action in 2024 towards a healthy planet?
First of all, as Peter Fiekowsky says, we have to want climate restoration before it will happen.
· Climate restoration needs to be a goal. It is arguably the best means of protecting the planet and its diversity for the benefit of ourselves and future generations.
Actions on temperature
· The planet is too hot. We are already experiencing dangerous temperature overshoot. The target should be to bring the global temperature below the 0.5C it was before a steep rise around 1980.
· Since 1980 the temperature in the Arctic has been rising about four times faster than the global average, and tipping point processes in the Arctic appear to have been triggered around 1980.
· Without direct cooling intervention to halt these processes, catastrophic climate change and sea level rise are almost inevitable.
o Catastrophic climate change could come from disruption of atmospheric circulation via disruption of the jet stream behaviour. We are already experiencing a trend towards more extremes of heat, drought, floods and wildfires as the jet stream waves get stuck more often and for longer. The stuck wave amplifies the effect of global warming on temperature and humidity.
o Catastrophic climate change could also come from disruption of ocean circulation via disruption of the AMOC. The strength has declined about 40% since 1980.
o A catastrophic boost to global warming could come from permafrost methane.
o Catastrophic sea level rise could come from a partial collapse of the Greenland Ice Sheet.
· Rapid cooling of the Arctic will require powerful SRM*, so fears of SRM need to be assuaged, especially for SAI** being the most powerful.
· SRM will also be needed to cool other specific regions, including the Antarctic and the Himalayas.
· Selection of SRM techniques and preparation for their deployment need to start ASAP, preferably in 2024.
To this we need action on GHG emissions and removals:
· We will probably need 50 years to get CO2e below 385 ppm (as it was in 1980) and allow the phase-out of SRM.
· CDR has to remove CO2 faster than it is being emitted: we probably only have two ways to do this: sequestering carbon in soil or in the ocean depths.
· Within 50 years MCB and other cooling interventions might have to take over from SAI as we run out of SO2 either extracted from fossil fuels during refinement or captured from fossil fuel burning.
Finally action to enhance natural vitality in the world’s soils and oceans is required both for increased biodiversity and to boost food productivity. The measures on CDR could have these co-benefits.
Best wishes for 2024, John
* SRM = solar radiation management, aka solar geoengineering
** SAI = stratospheric aerosol injection
All this is entirely practicable, but we need to start SRM deployment to refreeze the Arctic ASAP to minimise risks of catastrophes which include abrupt climate change and metres of sea level rise. These risks are growing exponentially as irreversibility points approach for some of the tipping points which would mean failure to avert catastrophe.
On the positive side, climate restoration is still within our grasp.
Cheers, John
I know we don't like being negative but we should also resist the temptation not to be realistic merely because being so, is so deeply depressing!
Without reciting the details of which we're mostly aware, there can be little remaining doubt that averting a climate catastrophe is becoming more challenging by the day. At what point would it be sensible to start asking 'What if we don't avert a climate catastrophe?'. If our underlying concern is to mitigate human suffering, it may well be that our best way to do that is to soften the blows from the catastrophe as it begins to happen (it won't be a single sudden event), and we'll do that by intelligent anticipatory planning. Denying the possibility that that might be necessary seems to me to be just as feeble minded as denying the possibility that human behaviour has affected the climate.
The desire for a healthy planet may need to be a little more nuanced. When Noah was building his Ark was he depressed at the thought of what was being lost, or exhilarated by what he was doing to ensure the survival of humanity and many species besides? Quite likely both. I'll let the biblical scholars on the list fill in the details! What might a 21st century Ark look like?
RegardsRobert
On 10/01/2024 11:36, 'rob de laet' via Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC) wrote:
Thank you Robert,
Agree, but I think we have to do ''whatever it takes'', which includes all these elements in an overall package,. The heating up of the planet is probably for more than half caused by the removal of forests, especially rain forests and if we do not reverse that (which can have a starting effect in as little as a decade starting from zero) the cloud brightening will become a permanent feature.
I made a calculation for the cost of the regreening of the tropics, which in large part must be done through agroforestry food production, next to forest protection and reforestation, as we also need to have a new green revolution and transition our foodsystem, which is largely based on fossil fuels (especially oil and gas) to regenerative agriculture. The cost would be around 0,5% of Global GDP over a period of at least a decade, probably two, but it would start cooling within a few years, increasingly mitigate extreme weather, preserve biodiversity, increase the income stream of about 500 million rural smallholder families or at least 2,5 billion people in the Global South, slowing, possibly reversing migration to cities and the Global North, stabilizing societies, while helping a lot to transition food production while rebuilding soils.
Cloud brightening and ocean revival can be done with much smaller sums of money of course, and ocean revival will also help improve the foodsystems while sequestering huge amounts of carbon and reverse ocean acidification. Cloud brightening can be a crucial and affordable bridge program, but if we do not revive the Earth's capacity for homeostasis we will have to continue it for a very long time, while natural systems as such can regain that capacity within decades if not faster.
best,
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Good review Herb and your finale is spot on:
"Much research over many years has shown that the following:
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On Jan 11, 2024, at 12:30 PM, Bruce Melton -- Austin, Texas <bme...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Since the discussion is about an education campaign, let’s start with a basic educational principle: start from where the student is. The center of gravity of the target population probably has some concern about climate change but is clueless about tipping points or recent ominous trends. Until such people become aware of the urgency of the crisis, discussion about methods for cooling the Earth might sound bonkers from the get-go and the geoengineering brand could go from invisible to radioactive. So I think that the first step is to focus on the facts about the urgency of the crisis. When the target audience has thoroughly internalized this and frantically demands action, they can be told that there is an extreme solution that is only a last resort, but in the spirit of “desperate times demand desperate measures,” with great reluctance we feel compelled to recommend active measures to cool the Earth.
I understand that this doesn’t fully measure up to the urgency of the situation, but as momma said, “you can’t hurry love.”
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Action now can restore.Carol Cespedes
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Since the discussion is about an education campaign, let’s start with a basic educational principle: start from where the student is. The center of gravity of the target population probably has some concern about climate change but is clueless about tipping points or recent ominous trends. Until such people become aware of the urgency of the crisis, discussion about methods for cooling the Earth might sound bonkers from the get-go and the geoengineering brand could go from invisible to radioactive. So I think that the first step is to focus on the facts about the urgency of the crisis. When the target audience has thoroughly internalized this and frantically demands action, they can be told that there is an extreme solution that is only a last resort, but in the spirit of “desperate times demand desperate measures,” with great reluctance we feel compelled to recommend active measures to cool the Earth.
I understand that this doesn’t fully measure up to the urgency of the situation, but as momma said, “you can’t hurry love.”
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Sir David King's words at the HPAC meeting this week go very well
with "later is too late." He said, "buying time." This concept
also works excellently with CDR and geoengineering.
Decarbonization will work alone in centuries. CDR in a decade or
two with war-time motivation. These are "too late" though.
Geoengineering "buys time" for CDR and decarbonization to work to
stabilize activated tipping responses. because "later is too
late."
We have been geoengineering with sulfates for 150 years...
On the frightening aspect of geoengineering: New
regulations on shipping fuel sulfur to reduce respiratory disease
caused by air pollution aerosols have unmasked warming because
these sulfur aerosols emissions create significant global cooling,
and new direct injection engine particulate emission regulations
for also reducing respiratory disease are another source of
diminishing global cooling sulfates; these new regulations have
certainly contributed to the temperature spike in 2023. Global
cooling sulfur emissions from fossil fuels are definitively
geoengineering and we have been doing this for 150 years. We know
exactly how many people die every year from respiratory disease
caused by air pollution (7 or 8 million), and we know exactly what
weather patterns are produced by this simple global cooling sulfur
aerosol geoengineering. Temporarily rescinding these regulations
will knock a few tenths of a degree C off the current temperature,
and plausibly another tenth or two degrees C to come as the direct
injection engines' particulate emissions regulations further
penetrate the fleet.
Getting ready for the big freeze coming to Austin,
B





Hi Bruce,
The 'buying time' argument has been around since the early days of geoengineering - see for example Wigley, T. M. L. 2006. ‘A Combined Mitigation/Geoengineering Approach to Climate Stabilization’. Science 314(5798): 452–454. doi:10.1126/science.1131728.
The problem with this framing is that it requires the policymaker first to have a sense that there's a need to buy time. Until that penny has dropped, the buying time argument is little more than a solution looking for a problem. The people that matter aren't interested because they don't recognise that there's a problem for which geoengineering is the solution.
The problem with climate change is that from
a policy perspective it is insidious. The scouts may know the
Indians are amassing their forces but until they're visible at
the top of the hill in front of you, the general leading his
troops can too easily ignore the threat (forgive the allusion to
Westerns, just a sign of my age!). The apocryphal boiled frog
is another apposite metaphor.
Climate danger is not yet sufficiently 'clear and present'. We need to chill and accept that until the climate has claimed a billion or so lives and caused a major disruption of the lifestyles of the affluent (in both the Global North and South - there are plenty of very rich people in the Global South), our ideas are not going to get taken up as serious policy options. By then their potential to buy time will have likely been significantly reduced, if not entirely exhausted.
Hey ho!
Robert
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On Jan 13, 2024, at 2:00 PM, robert...@gmail.com wrote:
The 'buying time' argument has been around since the early days of geoengineering - see for example Wigley, T. M. L. 2006. ‘A Combined Mitigation/Geoengineering Approach to Climate Stabilization’. Science 314(5798): 452–454. doi:10.1126/science.1131728.
The problem with this framing is that it requires the policymaker first to have a sense that there's a need to buy time. Until that penny has dropped, the buying time argument is little more than a solution looking for a problem. The people that matter aren't interested because they don't recognise that there's a problem for which geoengineering is the solution.
The problem with climate change is that from a policy perspective it is insidious. The scouts may know the Indians are amassing their forces but until they're visible at the top of the hill in front of you, the general leading his troops can too easily ignore the threat (forgive the allusion to Westerns, just a sign of my age!). The apocryphal boiled frog is another apposite metaphor.
Climate danger is not yet sufficiently 'clear and present'. We need to chill and accept that until the climate has claimed a billion or so lives and caused a major disruption of the lifestyles of the affluent (in both the Global North and South - there are plenty of very rich people in the Global South), our ideas are not going to get taken up as serious policy options. By then their potential to buy time will have likely been significantly reduced, if not entirely exhausted.
Hey ho!
RegardsRobert
On 13/01/2024 17:55, Bruce Melton -- Austin, Texas wrote:
Sir David King's words at the HPAC meeting this week go very well with "later is too late." He said, "buying time." This concept also works excellently with CDR and geoengineering. Decarbonization will work alone in centuries. CDR in a decade or two with war-time motivation. These are "too late" though. Geoengineering "buys time" for CDR and decarbonization to work to stabilize activated tipping responses. because "later is too late."
We have been geoengineering with sulfates for 150 years... On the frightening aspect of geoengineering: New regulations on shipping fuel sulfur to reduce respiratory disease caused by air pollution aerosols have unmasked warming because these sulfur aerosols emissions create significant global cooling, and new direct injection engine particulate emission regulations for also reducing respiratory disease are another source of diminishing global cooling sulfates; these new regulations have certainly contributed to the temperature spike in 2023. Global cooling sulfur emissions from fossil fuels are definitively geoengineering and we have been doing this for 150 years. We know exactly how many people die every year from respiratory disease caused by air pollution (7 or 8 million), and we know exactly what weather patterns are produced by this simple global cooling sulfur aerosol geoengineering. Temporarily rescinding these regulations will knock a few tenths of a degree C off the current temperature, and plausibly another tenth or two degrees C to come as the direct injection engines' particulate emissions regulations further penetrate the fleet.
Getting ready for the big freeze coming to Austin,
B
Good citation ~ ~ ~
The need of course; almost all believe we are on the correct
path, that the future will be bright because we are building so
many new renewables, EVs, shutting down coal, etc.
The temperature spike will create (hopefully) a motivational time where these long-valid concepts of "buying time" and "later is too late", will be given an opportunity to be heard. The spike will undoubtedly create far more extreme extremes that will also add to the (hopeful) motivation. And of course, the concepts of "buying time" and "later is too late" are nowhere near present in our current climate culture.
The motivation created by recent events and future extreme events
will hopefully spur clicks on outreach. If enough of this outreach
speaks of "buying time" and "later is too late"..., awareness will
increase that there is an emergency upon us and the path we have
been following is inadequate.
At each media moment for: 1.5 C, the current blizzard that looks
to be polar vortex collapse influenced because of its duration and
extremeness, the next blizzard next week (?!), the coming
wintertime tornadoes and flooding, and rolling blackouts
especially with these record temps (again); we need to have our
outreach ready to launch when the compost hits the fan. ^^^ The
playoff postponement - motivational moment for 10s of millions?
The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) has issued a
winter weather watch but no conservation requests yet even though
demand is forecast to exceed capacity by 2k MW tomorrow. Though
this is only 2 percent of available capacity, when we get within 1
percent of exceedance, mandatory rolling blackouts begin.
I try and meet semi-regularly (or at least talk) with two of the
chief meteorologists in town for lunch at one of Austin's great
restaurants over the lake, Hula Hut ~ ~ ~ We generally time our
get togethers to coincide with weather extremes and we discussed
the great temperature spike last time as the record drought and
heat had subsided and our 8 inches of rain in October had not
created disasters, but got everyone's attention after only raining
20 percent of normal the previous four months. I feel a need for
a tubular taco coming on. Our weather professional and especially
on television are some of our most trusted information sources on
climate change.
Brrrr! 24 here in the middle of the day! Yikes!
B
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