RT-11 Paginated output to the terminal
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Pavel Tsybulin
Nov 2, 2025, 3:41:55 AM (5 days ago) Nov 2
to [PiDP-11]
Hello grandparents who used RT-11.
Please tell me if there is a built-in RT-11 the ability to output text to the terminal page by page, i.e. 23 lines of text and a prompt "Press any key to continue", like it's done, for example, in the unix utility less?
I know about the ability to press ctrl-s ctrl-q, but at 115200 baud speed you need to be the fastest gun in the west, but I'm not.
Thanks,
Pavel
Johnny Billquist
Nov 2, 2025, 6:51:45 AM (5 days ago) Nov 2
to pid...@googlegroups.com
I'm not really an RT-11 user, but checking through manuals and so on, I
don't see any way of doing this in RT-11.
Johnny
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email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
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don't see any way of doing this in RT-11.
Johnny
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Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Bert Driehuis
Nov 2, 2025, 10:09:47 AM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to Pavel Tsybulin, [PiDP-11]
This wasn't much of a problem in the days of the 110 bps Teletype 33.
I think in the days of RT11, a really fast terminal like the VT52 maxed out at 9600 bps. Most of our RSX-11 terminals ran at 1200 bps IIRC. You may want to just reduce the terminal speed to be period authentic.
Bert
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Johnny Billquist
Nov 2, 2025, 10:33:05 AM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to pid...@googlegroups.com
I think the VT52 couldn't do more than 2400 bps. However, the VT52 had
paged output actually as a hardware feature of the terminal. You could
make it stop after a page full of output, and you had to hit a key to
get the next page.
However, times have moved on. RSX certainly can do paged output these
days. I *think* RSTS/E can as well. It's just RT-11 that don't.
Johnny
On 2025-11-02 16:09, Bert Driehuis wrote:
> This wasn't much of a problem in the days of the 110 bps Teletype 33.
>
> I think in the days of RT11, a really fast terminal like the VT52 maxed
> out at 9600 bps. Most of our RSX-11 terminals ran at 1200 bps IIRC. You
> may want to just reduce the terminal speed to be period authentic.
>
> Bert
>
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 at 09:41, Pavel Tsybulin <tsyb...@gmail.com
> <mailto:tsyb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello grandparents who used RT-11.
> Please tell me if there is a built-in RT-11 the ability to output
> text to the terminal page by page, i.e. 23 lines of text and a
> prompt "Press any key to continue", like it's done, for example, in
> the unix utility less?
> I know about the ability to press ctrl-s ctrl-q, but at 115200 baud
> speed you need to be the fastest gun in the west, but I'm not.
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
>
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paged output actually as a hardware feature of the terminal. You could
make it stop after a page full of output, and you had to hit a key to
get the next page.
However, times have moved on. RSX certainly can do paged output these
days. I *think* RSTS/E can as well. It's just RT-11 that don't.
Johnny
On 2025-11-02 16:09, Bert Driehuis wrote:
> This wasn't much of a problem in the days of the 110 bps Teletype 33.
>
> I think in the days of RT11, a really fast terminal like the VT52 maxed
> out at 9600 bps. Most of our RSX-11 terminals ran at 1200 bps IIRC. You
> may want to just reduce the terminal speed to be period authentic.
>
> Bert
>
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 at 09:41, Pavel Tsybulin <tsyb...@gmail.com
> <mailto:tsyb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello grandparents who used RT-11.
> Please tell me if there is a built-in RT-11 the ability to output
> text to the terminal page by page, i.e. 23 lines of text and a
> prompt "Press any key to continue", like it's done, for example, in
> the unix utility less?
> I know about the ability to press ctrl-s ctrl-q, but at 115200 baud
> speed you need to be the fastest gun in the west, but I'm not.
>
> Thanks,
> Pavel
>
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Anton Lavrentiev
Nov 2, 2025, 10:42:09 AM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to pid...@googlegroups.com
> I think the VT52 couldn't do more than 2400 bps.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/23a3e84d-77a7-49e8-b664-41dee2c76002%40softjar.se.
Johnny Billquist
Nov 2, 2025, 10:46:19 AM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to pid...@googlegroups.com
My bad. :-)
I might have been thinking of the VT05 then.
Johnny
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I might have been thinking of the VT05 then.
Johnny
>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/23a3e84d-77a7-49e8-b664-41dee2c76002%40softjar.se.
>
>
Randy James
Nov 2, 2025, 1:23:29 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to Johnny Billquist, pid...@googlegroups.com
The vt52 could do 9600 if the serial cards and cpus could drive it.
I had 4x vt52 in a Pdp-8/e running TSS-8 and could not drive vt52s at that speed - even though the interface dip switches permitted the 9600 setting.
But 4800 worked flawlessly even with many other peripherals.
Randy
> On Nov 2, 2025, at 9:46 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
>
> My bad. :-)
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/43fbf4a1-c3a9-4e08-a8fe-55501400e05e%40softjar.se.
I had 4x vt52 in a Pdp-8/e running TSS-8 and could not drive vt52s at that speed - even though the interface dip switches permitted the 9600 setting.
But 4800 worked flawlessly even with many other peripherals.
Randy
> On Nov 2, 2025, at 9:46 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
>
> My bad. :-)
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/43fbf4a1-c3a9-4e08-a8fe-55501400e05e%40softjar.se.
p q (p quinn)
Nov 2, 2025, 4:19:04 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to [PiDP-11]
I'm sure it would be fairly easy to write a More equivalent, but I don't know of one. Back in the day, it was Cntl-Q, Cntrl-S, even with a 9600 baud terminal.
Warner Losh
Nov 2, 2025, 4:30:25 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to p q (p quinn), [PiDP-11]
I had a friend that hacked the rt11 tty driver to do more-like things. He wound up ditching it as too much of a hassle when always on...
Warner
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/4301e868-43db-4db6-a040-d9c1c15286e7n%40googlegroups.com.
Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm
Nov 2, 2025, 4:38:25 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to Warner Losh, p q (p quinn), [PiDP-11]
You might be sufficiently happy with:
sim> SET CONSOLE SPEED={300,1200,2400}
Output this slow will be responsive to ^S and ^Q
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CANCZdfpnmhsGC2pUykuYJWHw3PExJS2DmxApGgaqgNBuhHC1TA%40mail.gmail.com.
Message has been deleted
Johnny Billquist
Nov 2, 2025, 7:28:21 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to Randy James, pid...@googlegroups.com
Well, you should keep terminal speed separate from the system being able
to keep the line busy all the time. :-)
But yeah, keeping multiple terminal lines fully busy on a PDP-8 might
stretch the thing a bit. But it also depends on what interface we're
talking about.
But nothing harmful comes out of the system not being able to keep the
line busy all the time. It just won't be getting about 1000 characters
per second, but something less. So the terminal is a bit more idle.
Johnny
>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/43fbf4a1-c3a9-4e08-a8fe-55501400e05e%40softjar.se.
to keep the line busy all the time. :-)
But yeah, keeping multiple terminal lines fully busy on a PDP-8 might
stretch the thing a bit. But it also depends on what interface we're
talking about.
But nothing harmful comes out of the system not being able to keep the
line busy all the time. It just won't be getting about 1000 characters
per second, but something less. So the terminal is a bit more idle.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist
Nov 2, 2025, 7:30:31 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Although if you're running at those speeds, you probably are not as
interested in getting something to pause after a page full, since you'll
be able to read it while it's coming.
The faster the speed, the more relevant/interesting it is to be able to
pause after a page...
Johnny
On 2025-11-02 22:38, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
> You might be sufficiently happy with:
>
> sim> SET CONSOLE SPEED={300,1200,2400}
>
> Output this slow will be responsive to ^S and ^Q
>
> *From:*pid...@googlegroups.com <pid...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of
> *Warner Losh
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 2, 2025 11:30 AM
> *To:* p q (p quinn) <peterq...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* [PiDP-11] <pid...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [PiDP-11] RT-11 Paginated output to the terminal
> <mailto:tsyb...@gmail.com%20%0b>>>>> <mailto:tsyb...@gmail.com
> >>>> pidp-11/CAEw4EVWfMDNwyerQVx-
> >>>> ymXH1C3E0h9M3L0ZUgQjHwERMtzABEQ%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com> <https://
> >>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CAEw4EVWfMDNwyerQVx-
> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CAEw4EVWfMDNwyerQVx->
> >>>> ymXH1C3E0h9M3L0ZUgQjHwERMtzABEQ%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> >>>> CAN0x2A_GeQk_9jf-
> OEGFqqHAK6ah0xW0_S6oquOA29QbwxORKA%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAN0x2A_GeQk_9jf- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAN0x2A_GeQk_9jf->
> >>>> OEGFqqHAK6ah0xW0_S6oquOA29QbwxORKA%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/23a3e84d-77a7-49e8-
> b664-41dee2c76002%40softjar.se>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/43fbf4a1-c3a9-4e08-
> a8fe-55501400e05e%40softjar.se>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/4301e868-43db-4db6-a040-
> d9c1c15286e7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CANCZdfpnmhsGC2pUykuYJWHw3PExJS2DmxApGgaqgNBuhHC1TA%40mail.gmail.com?
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/3691527da12e469b91500ab73e664c68%40infocomm.com?
interested in getting something to pause after a page full, since you'll
be able to read it while it's coming.
The faster the speed, the more relevant/interesting it is to be able to
pause after a page...
Johnny
On 2025-11-02 22:38, Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm wrote:
> You might be sufficiently happy with:
>
> sim> SET CONSOLE SPEED={300,1200,2400}
>
> Output this slow will be responsive to ^S and ^Q
>
> *Warner Losh
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 2, 2025 11:30 AM
> *To:* p q (p quinn) <peterq...@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* [PiDP-11] <pid...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [PiDP-11] RT-11 Paginated output to the terminal
>
> I had a friend that hacked the rt11 tty driver to do more-like things.
> He wound up ditching it as too much of a hassle when always on...
>
> Warner
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2025, 2:19 PM p q (p quinn) <peterq...@gmail.com
> <mailto:peterq...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm sure it would be fairly easy to write a More equivalent, but I
> don't know of one. Back in the day, it was Cntl-Q, Cntrl-S, even
> with a 9600 baud terminal.
>
> On Sunday, November 2, 2025 at 10:23:29 AM UTC-8
> I had a friend that hacked the rt11 tty driver to do more-like things.
> He wound up ditching it as too much of a hassle when always on...
>
> Warner
>
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2025, 2:19 PM p q (p quinn) <peterq...@gmail.com
> <mailto:peterq...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm sure it would be fairly easy to write a More equivalent, but I
> don't know of one. Back in the day, it was Cntl-Q, Cntrl-S, even
> with a 9600 baud terminal.
>
> On Sunday, November 2, 2025 at 10:23:29 AM UTC-8
> randy.j...@gmail.com <mailto:randy.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The vt52 could do 9600 if the serial cards and cpus could driveit.
>
> I had 4x vt52 in a Pdp-8/e running TSS-8 and could not drive
> vt52s at that speed - even though the interface dip switches
> permitted the 9600 setting.
>
> But 4800 worked flawlessly even with many other peripherals.
>
> Randy
>
> > On Nov 2, 2025, at 9:46 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
>
> The vt52 could do 9600 if the serial cards and cpus could driveit.
>
> I had 4x vt52 in a Pdp-8/e running TSS-8 and could not drive
> vt52s at that speed - even though the interface dip switches
> permitted the 9600 setting.
>
> But 4800 worked flawlessly even with many other peripherals.
>
> Randy
>
> > On Nov 2, 2025, at 9:46 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> <mailto:tsyb...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello grandparents who used RT-11.
> >>>> Please tell me if there is a built-in RT-11 the ability to
> output
> >>>> text to the terminal page by page, i.e. 23 lines of text
> and a
> >>>> prompt "Press any key to continue", like it's done, for
> example,in
> >>>> the unix utility less?
> >>>> I know about the ability to press ctrl-s ctrl-q, but at
> 115200 baud
> >>>> speed you need to be the fastest gun in the west, but I'm
> not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Pavel
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the Google
> >>>> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it,
> >>>> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello grandparents who used RT-11.
> >>>> Please tell me if there is a built-in RT-11 the ability to
> output
> >>>> text to the terminal page by page, i.e. 23 lines of text
> and a
> >>>> prompt "Press any key to continue", like it's done, for
> example,in
> >>>> the unix utility less?
> >>>> I know about the ability to press ctrl-s ctrl-q, but at
> 115200 baud
> >>>> speed you need to be the fastest gun in the west, but I'm
> not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Pavel
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> the Google
> >>>> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it,
> >>>> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>>.
> >>>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> >>>> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> >>>> pidp-11/CAEw4EVWfMDNwyerQVx-
> >>>> ymXH1C3E0h9M3L0ZUgQjHwERMtzABEQ%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com> <https://
> >>>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CAEw4EVWfMDNwyerQVx-
> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CAEw4EVWfMDNwyerQVx->
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> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> >>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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> OEGFqqHAK6ah0xW0_S6oquOA29QbwxORKA%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
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> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> >>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> >>> || on a psychedelic trip
> >>> email: b...@softjar.se <mailto:b...@softjar.se> || Reading
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> >>> || on a psychedelic trip
> murder books
> >>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from it, sendan email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> >>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >>>
> >>> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/23a3e84d-77a7-49e8-
> b664-41dee2c76002%40softjar.se>.
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se <mailto:b...@softjar.se> || Reading
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
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Jerry Weiss
Nov 2, 2025, 8:14:36 PM (4 days ago) Nov 2
to Pavel Tsybulin, [PiDP-11]
If you are just looking for the RT-11 version of the *nix version of "more" check out DECUS 11s109
Jerry
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Pavel Tsybulin
Nov 3, 2025, 6:15:27 AM (4 days ago) Nov 3
to Jerry Weiss, [PiDP-11]
Hi all.
Thank you so much to everyone who responded. it was very interesting and informative.
Unfortunately, there was no miracle and there was no magic command like D 56=60565 that would make me happy :).
From all the answers it became clear that there are two options that are acceptable to me:
1. A utility like more for page-by-page file output and
2. Changes in the terminal firmware to implement this viewing mode. (i'm using FPGA variants for both, pdp-11/70 and VT100 terminal)
The first option is easier to implement, although it is not universal for the entire system. RT-11 doesn't have the concept of the pipes :(
The Fortran implementation seemed a bit cumbersome to me, so I wrote my own in macro11. (source attached)
Thanks again everyone.
Pavel
Jerry Weiss
Nov 3, 2025, 4:30:35 PM (3 days ago) Nov 3
to Pavel Tsybulin, [PiDP-11]
Hi Pavel,
Nice bit of coding. Just to be complete, the DECUS submission for which the code was Fortran, did include a SAV image. I presume, but have not tested myself, is the compiled version of that program.
Not having pipes in RT-11 is a bummer, but it does so many other things with low overhead, hence Real Time, I cannot fault it. TSX+ is a terrific enhancement of RT-11, while retaining many of its programs and features. TSX+ is available for hobbyists. Still no pipes.
Jerry
Pavel Tsybulin
Nov 3, 2025, 4:50:27 PM (3 days ago) Nov 3
to Jerry Weiss, [PiDP-11]
Hi Jerry,
Yeah, judging by the size of the .sav 15K (30 blocks) it's Fortran, the macro implementation is more compact.
terri-...@glaver.org
Nov 3, 2025, 9:08:25 PM (3 days ago) Nov 3
to [PiDP-11]
On Sunday, November 2, 2025 at 10:33:05 AM UTC-5 b...@softjar.se wrote:
However, times have moved on. RSX certainly can do paged output these
days. I *think* RSTS/E can as well. It's just RT-11 that don't.
RSTS/E doesn't support the /PAGE qualifier to the TYPE command.
I should probably add that to my V10.1 distribution, since I have the
I should probably add that to my V10.1 distribution, since I have the
source code.
DCL in RSTS/E is a later (V9) add-on, since VMS standardized the
DCL in RSTS/E is a later (V9) add-on, since VMS standardized the
use of DCL as the new uniform command line interface across
systems. The internal implementation is completely different be-
tween VMS and RSTS/E. The RSTS/E parser treats /NO<stuff> as
an explicit negation, while in VMS it's parsed differently. There
was a sort of 'easter egg' in earlier RSTS/E V9 versions because
the /NOTIFY qualifier is not a negation. This was solved by having
a /TIFY qualifier and /NOTIFY being its negation. In those earlier
V9 releases, you could say something like "PRINT/TIFY FILE.TXT".
In later releases DCL checked for /TIFY and rejected it.
In later releases DCL checked for /TIFY and rejected it.
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