In the past weeks, we've experienced some problems with the participation of voting members. Just a few days ago, quorum wasn't met for a membership vote, PSR6 has seen a lot of debate and passed with just 16 +1 on nearly 50 voting members, and so on. Other threads were open to discuss this problem, and I put a little of my time thinking about it.
An idea came to me, a simple modification to the voting process:
Count every member that didn't vote as a -1
This seems a little harsh, but let me list the pros:
- quorum is no longer needed, the absolute majority needs to be achieved
- +0 gains importance
- no more +0 just to avoid insulting someone
- you are encouraged to vote and show effort, or you will drag down any vote
To counter the problems of participation, with the entrance of a secretary, we could enforce some hard rules for continuous absence from vote, like counting abstaining and +0 and revoking (temporarily?) the voting right to the offending member; I would suggest a mandatory "show of interest and participation" as a requirement to regain the voting right.
What do you think about it? I would like to spring a productive discussion about it...
Right now, a +0 can be a -1 in disguise, but it practice it will count as a +1,because it will increase the quorum but not the number of +1 needed!
I think we're getting to the bottom of this problem, and that the other issue to be tackled, aside from +0 OP, should be incouraging members' participation and involvement in votes.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/php-fig/zNhayZyXsEw/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/d91a150e-8cb7-422e-9df0-c534fe5cc956%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/c4b1590b-d1e5-4cd1-a857-c803f4d49a7b%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
In the other proposal, +0 are explicitly weakened by weighting 33% on the quorum.
Still, the issue seems to be the weight of +0.
This is why I don't think that +0 should be removed. But I remain convinced that it should be of lesser/no weight in the voting process.
An addendum: maybe can we require a quick motivation behind any +0 vote?
No worries! ;)
An addendum: maybe can we require a quick motivation behind any +0 vote?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/c0f5ec60-6733-479b-bfe9-bdac9edaea4f%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
On Dec 11, 2015 1:44 PM, "Alessandro Lai" <alessand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe the reason I used was the less important. But +0 still can have meaning;
In reading this thread, I get the sense that +0 and the effect it had on votes is not properly understood.
A majority is reached when a majority of votes cast are either -1 or +1 and quorum is met. As such, +0 have meaning in setting the number of votes twitted for a majority. As an example, let's say we have 39 member projects. By-laws indicate that quorum would then be 13, with 7 +1 votes twitted to pass. If we have 13 votes as follows:
- -1: 2
- +0: 7
- +1: 4
then the vote fails, as it did not receive half or greater of quorum.
As such, +0 is eminently relevant. The project casting +0 may feel they have insufficient understanding to vote either way, feel that it does not affect their project sufficiently to warrant a +1 or -1, etc — but they are indicating they are aware of the vote and willing to establish quorum.
I honestly don't think anything needs to change here, other than potentially raising the quorum requirements. The concept of quorum exists because we know it's impossible to guarantee 100% turnout for every vote; the question is: what threshold is acceptable?
> for example, a particular PSR could not apply to a specific project, or/and the representative could not be familiar with the argument, maybe for the same reason.
>
> This is why I don't think that +0 should be removed. But I remain convinced that it should be of lesser/no weight in the voting process.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/7b5eaa0b-10db-4785-9428-e9cd51d071aa%40googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/CAJp_myXBBtgKsUuy%2Bg9m4tuuB7OEQjOfQqLaho-hhjyW9UdhPw%40mail.gmail.com.
Well 51% '+1' and 49% '-1' wouldn't look as fig is really backing a PSR too though.
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/php-fig/zNhayZyXsEw/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/650bfe46-81eb-4041-8338-5d79cff1c5d2%40googlegroups.com.
And then tweak each PSR for years (like the psr6) to make it pass. And as the result less standards out there.
Remember that perfect is the enemy of good.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/79ac8c09-6457-4b52-903a-683223128161%40googlegroups.com.
As I've been reading the various voting related threads and even thinking about my own suggestion early in this thread I started to wonder there is too much focus on what a +0 means versus what it means to vote.
I feel +0 must stay, but that more +1 (relative to voting body) should be needed to pass a vote.
Has the FIG considered removing the quorum out right and requiring a simple or super majority of +1 to pass a vote?