Number of families in the hereditary peerage

[Eleanor Doughty]

Hello all,

A question of the very most basic today but an important one. According to my spreadsheet (!) the total number of hereditary peers (ie those at the top of their family: in the Marlboroughs, the duke, rather than Blandford, Sunderland etc) is now 796, since the extinction earlier this year of the Gough viscountcy.

Does anyone have a contrary figure please? I'm hoping not as this will suggest I've missed someone somewhere, and will have to work out who, but I thought if anyone else would have this kind of data it would be someone here.

Thanks as ever,

Eleanor

[S. S.]

Eleanor, 

If I understood you correctly, did you mean there are 796 hereditary peers at present in total? I can confirm from my own list of all all hereditary peers that there are indeed 796 hereditary peers at present, excluding members of the Royal Family who hold peerages, e.g. Edinburgh, Kent etc. 

S.S.

[Eleanor Doughty]

You did – sorry if that was a bit incoherent! Thank you very much, I’m glad 796 is the number you have too. 

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[bx...@yahoo.com]

My total is 798, excluding the Royal Family.

Breakdown is as follows:

Dukes                                     24

Marquesses                          34

Earls/Countesses              189

Viscounts                            110

Barons/Baronesses/ &

   Lords/Ladies                   441

Assuming the problems maybe with the last category, as there are so many of them, here is my breakdown by first initial of the title:

A (23) B (39) C (41) D (30) E (5) F (15)

G (24) H (35) I (6) J (2) K (17) L (17)

M (40) N (14) O (5) P (12) Q (0)  R (32)

S (45) T (15) U (0) V (5) W (18) X (0)

Y (0) Z (1)

Eleanor and S.S., can you spot the differences from your lists?

Thanks.

Brooke

[Henry W]

http://unterstein.net/or/ThePeerage.html

Unterstein above records 804 hereditary peers.

This seems to include the Royal Family (i.e. Cornwall/Cambridge, Sussex, York, Edinburgh, Gloucester, Kent), and three disclaimed peerages (Earl of Selkirk, Baron Sanderson of Ayot, Baron Silkin). It is possible to get the "count by rank" out of the website if that's helpful.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Yes, that website matches my total of 798, not including the Royal Dukes.

However, Henry, you make a very good point, as my list does include all disclaimed peerages.

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

Thanks Brooke! 

My breakdown is:

D 24

M 34

E 189

V 110

B 439

As you suspected the additions are in the baronies. I wonder who the other two are! My list includes the three disclaimed peerages. 

Separately I note that your alphabetical breakdown is missing a Z – either Zetland or Zouche and a Y for Younger. But that doesn’t help us and indeed takes us back!

I’d really like to get this right – for reasons soon to be explained – so if anyone fancies comparing lists of baronies…?!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/peerage-news/968cb802-2cdb-4cf4-a6c7-58308685a183n%40googlegroups.com.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Eleanor.

I'll see how far I can get before my fingers go numb---  (please excuse the typos!)

Aberconway, Aberdare, Abinger, Acton, Addington, Aldenham & Hunsdon of Hunsdon, Aldington, Altrincham, Alvingham, Amherst of Hackney, Ampthill, Amwell, Annaly, Arlington, Ashbourne, Ashburton, Ashcombe, Ashton of Hyde, Ashtown, Astor of Hever, Auckland, Avebury, Aylmer

Baden-Powell, Bagot, Baillieu, Balfour of Burleigh, Banbury of Southam, , Barnard, Basing, Beaverbrook, Belhaven & Stenton, Bellew, Belper, Berkeley, Berners, Bethell, Bicester, Biddulph, Birkett, Blyth, Bolton, Borthwick, Borwick, Boston, Brabazon of Tara, Bradbury, Brain, Brassey of Apethorpe, Braybrooke, Braye, Bridges, Broadbridge, Brocket, Brougham & Vaux, Brownlow, Bruntisfield, Burden, Burgh, Burnham, Burton, Byron

Cadman, Calverley, Camoys, Carbery, Carew, Carnock, Carrington, Castlemaine, Catto, Cawley, Chesham, Chetwode, Chorley, Churchill, Churston ,Clanmorris, Clifford of Chudleigh, Clinton, Clitheroe, Clwyd, Clydesmuir, Cobbold, Cochrane of Cults, Coleraine, Coleridge, Colgrain, Colwyn, Colyton, Congleton, Cornwallis, Cottesloe, Craigmyle, Cranworth, Crathorne, Crawshaw, Croft, Crofton, Cromwell, Crook, Cullen of Ashbourne, Cunliffe

Dacre, Darcy de Knayth, Daresbury, Darling, Darwen, Davies, de Clifford, de Freyne, de Mauley, De Ramsey, de Ros, de Saumarez, de Villiers, Decies, Delamere, Denham, Denman, Derwent, Dickinson, Digby, Dormer, Dowding, Dudley, Dufferin & Clandeboye, Dulverton, Dunalley, Dunboyne, Dunleath, Dunsany, Dynevor

Egremont & Leconfield, Elibank, Ellenborough, Elphinstone, Elton

Fairfax of Cameron, Fairhaven, Faringdon, Farnham, Fermoy, Feversham,  ffrench, Fisher, FitzWalter, Foley, Forbes, Forester, Forres, Forteviot, Freyberg

Gainford, Garvagh, Geddes, Gerard,  Gifford, Gisborough, Glanusk, Glenarthur, Glenconner, Glendevon, Glendyne, Glentoran, Gorell, Grantchester, Grantley, Graves, Gray, Greenway, Grenfell, Gretton, Grey of Codnor, Gridley, Grimston of Westbury, Grimthorpe, 

Hacking, Haden-Guest, Hamilton of Dalzell, Hampton, Hankey, Harding of Petherton, Hardinge of Penshurst, , Harlech, Harmsworth, Harris, Harvey of Tasburgh, Hastings, Hatherton,  Hawke, Hayter, Hazlerigg, Hemingford, Hemphill, Henley, Henniker, Herbert, Herries of Terregles,  Hesketh, Heytesbury, Hindlip, Hives, Hollenden, Holm Patrick, Hotham, Hothfield, Howard de Walden, Howard of Penrith, Howick of Glendale, Huntingfield, Hylton

Iliffe, Inchiquin, Inchyra, Inglewood, Inverforth, Ironside

Jeffreys, Joicey

Kenilworth, Kennet, Kensington, Kenswood, Kenyon, Kershaw, Keyes, Kilbracken, Killanin, Killearn, Kilmaine, Kilmarnock, Kindersley, Kingsale, Kinloss, Kinross, Kirkwood

Langford, Latham, Latymer, Lawrence, Layton, Leigh, Leighton of St. Mellons, Lilford, Lindsay of Birker, Lisle, Londesborough, Louth, Lovat, Lucas of Chilworth, Lucas of Crudwell & Dingwall, Luke

Hope this helps!

Part 2, M-Z,  in the next installment.

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Second installment---

MacAndrew, Macdonald, McGowan, Maclay, McNair, Macpherson of Drumochter,  Mancroft, Manners, Manton, Marchamley, Margadale, Marks of Broughton, Martonmere, Massy, May, Merrivale, Merthyr, Meston, Methuen Middleton, Milford, Milne, Milner of Leeds, Milverton, Moncreiff, Monk Bretton, Monkswell, Monson, Montagu of Beaulieu, Monteagle of Brandon, Moran, Morris, Morris of Kenwood, Mostyn, Mottistone, Mountevans, Mowbray, Segrave & Stourton, Moyne, Moynihan, Muskerry

Napier & Ettrick, Napier of Magdala, Nathan, Nelson of Stafford, Netherthorpe, Newall, Newborough, Newton, Noel-Buxton,  Norrie,  Northbourne, Northbrook, Norton, Nunburnholme

Oaksey & Trevethin, Ogmore, O'Hagan, O'Neill, Oranmore & Browne

Palmer, Parmoor, Pender, Penrhyn,  Petre, Phillimore, Piercy,  Plunket, Poltimore,  Polwarth, Ponsonby of Shulbreede, Poole

Raglan, Rankeillour, Rathcavan, Rathcreedan, Rathdonnell, Ravensdale, Ravensworth, Rayleigh, Rea, Reay, Redesdale, Reith, Remnant, Rendlesham, Rennell,  Renwick, Revelstoke, Ritchie of Dundee, Riversale, Robertson of Oakridge, Roborough, Rochester, Rockley, Rodney, Rollo, Rootes, Rossmore, Rotherwick, Rothschild, Rowallan, Rugby, Russell of Liverpool

Sackville, St. Helens, St. John of Bletso, St. Levan, St. Oswald,  Saltoun, Sanderson of Ayot, Sandford, Sandhurst, Savile,  Saye & Sele, Seaford, Selsdon, Sempill, Shaughnessy, Shepherd, Sherfield, Shuttleworth, Silkin,  Silsoe, Simon of Wythenshawe, SInclair, Sinclair of Cleeve, Sinha, Skelmersdale,  Somerleyton, Somers, Southampton, Spens, Stafford, Stamp, Stanley of Alderley & Sheffield, Strabolgi,  Strange, Strathalmond, Strathcarron, Strathclyde,  Strathcona & Mount Royal, Stratheden & Campbell, Strathspey, Sudeley, Suffield, Swansea, Swaythling, Swinfen

Talbot of Malahide, Tedder, Tennyson, Terrington, Teviot, Teynham, Thomson of Fleet,  Thurlow, Tollemache, Torphichen, Trefgarne, Trevor, Trimlestown, Tryon, Tweedsmuir, 

Vaux or Harrowden, Ventry, Vernon, Vestey, Vivian

Wakehurst, Walpole, Walsingham, Waterpark, Wedgwood,  Westbury, Westwood, Wharton, Wigram,  Willoughby de Broke, Willoughby de Eresby, Windlesham, Wise, WOlverton, Wraxall, Wrenbury, Wrottesley, Wynford,

Zouche

Brooke

[Peter de Loriol Chandieu]

What, pray is a Lord or Lady? The only members of the peerage that are titled as such are the sons and daughters of Dukes and Marquesses, in the case of daughters, also the daughters of Earls, sons of earls are merely the Honourable. These titles are intransmissible - they are for life only,

The only time the eldest son of a peer senior to a baron is called other than Hon or Lord, is when there is a subsidiary title.

Life Peers are Barons only

Peter

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[Patricia Light]

I have been reading your posts with interest. After decades of recording my peerage records in notebooks & files you can imagine that i no longer have room for written copies, so i too, am thinking of putting my records on a spreadsheet. I would be interested in any tips you all could give me, whilst in no way wishing to copy anyone & the records are just for my own personal use and will not be published.

Thank you for any help you can give. I would just like to thank everyone for always being so friendly & helpful on all matters to do with the thorny issue of peerages & baronetages. 

[S. S.]

Eleanor, this is interesting. I also have 439 baronies in my list as well. The other numbers match up as well. I did notice though that Unterstein lists 441 baronies though. I will have to do some tinkering and find out about the discrepancy. 

Peter, I think the confusion with "Lord" or "Lady" under barons and baronesses would be that of Lordships of Parliament, since they are called that, or keeping with how we commonly refer to those holding baronies as Lord XYZ and Lady XYZ. 

[Jonathan]

Peter, Lord and Lady refer to the lowest rank in the Scottish peerage. They are, correctly, not Barons or Baronesses. Indeed, when Lady Saltoun of Abernethy sat in the House of Lords, she was always referred to in lists as "Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly." and not as "..., B." as was the case for baronesses.

[Eleanor Doughty]

Thanks so much for this, Brooke – so kind of you to type it all out!

I've cross-checked with my list, and found that I was missing four, but that also you were missing Lyveden. So now there seem to be 443 baronies, which is more than Unterstein lists too. That takes the total number of hereditary peerages up to 800. Any thoughts?!  

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Eleanor.

You're quite welcome.  A little exercise, at least for the fingers!

Actually, you're right, I had skipped Lyveden, but that was just an oversight.  I was getting a little tired by then, which is why I decided to break after the L's, but I guess I took the break one name too early.  So sorry for the confusion.

If you now have 443 and I have 441, what 2 "extra" names appear on your list that don't appear on mine?  

Eventually, we will figure this whole thing out!

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

I've been through both lists again and the 'extras' appear to be Bledisloe and Greenhill! The latter must date from when I compiled my original list, before that went extinct in 2020, so that explains that one, but Bledisloe is a mystery as that's a viscountcy, so I don't know how it ended up mislabelled. 

I've got 110 viscountcies – one of which seems to be duplicated, so if I swap Bledisloe in, that looks like it might be a full house! 

That makes 800 altogether, excluding royals. Does that sound right?

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Bledisloe, while also a barony, is, as you said, a viscountcy, so it's counted with the viscounts to total 110 in that category.  Baron Greenhill died in 2020, at which point, the barony became extinct.

I'm still looking at 798 ( excluding the royal dukes), so there's still the difference of two.

Brooke

[Peter de Loriol Chandieu]

re Title of Lord and Lady in the Scots peerage

There were titles of this kind created - Lord Barons of the Scottish parliament. Their coronet is that of a Baron. Strictly speaking , though, a Scottish Lord, otherwise,  does not form part of the peerage. (Court of the Lord Lyon)

[bx...@yahoo.com]

One less now, with the extinction of the Lawrence barony.

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

Returning to this after a week of footnoting... Brooke, are we agreed on 440 baronies, 110 viscountcies, 189 earldoms, 34 marquessates, and 24 dukedoms – so 797 in total? 

[S. S.]

Hmm, I have 438 baronies on my list. All the other numbers match up for me. I have made sure to keep track of the extinctions.

S.S.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Eleanor.

Yes, with the extinction of the Lawrence barony,  those totals are what I have as well.

797 seems to be the total  number of all non-royal peerages.

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

Thanks Brooke – my brain is too tired to go through the list and recount so I'm very happy to go with your total! Am much obliged. In good time I'll explain why I'm asking...

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eleanordoughty.com

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Eleanor.

Glad to help!  

It does always seem that the barons/baronesses/lords/ladies are the ones that throw everything off kilter, probably because there are so many of them. 

No doubt this should continue over the next few years.  Based on Henry's list, looks like quite a few of them will disappear, but we will also be dealing with dormancy, and titles going into and coming out of abeyance. 

Should be very interesting for we peerage watchers!

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

Hello again, all (and particularly Brooke),

For reasons that will soon become clear I am revisiting this ultimate list of those with titles, and following the extinction of the Trimlestown barony earlier this year, the new total seems to me to be 796 individuals holding hereditary peerages. I was feeling quite happy with this total – calculated with help from Brooke's excellent baronies list above and cross-checked with my own list, which derives from being cross-checked between my 2019 Debretts and the useful Wikipedia lists no doubt supplied by someone here – until I glanced at the Debretts website, which gives a total of 803 peers, here. Debretts' breakdown is:

– 24 dukes
– 34 marquesses
– 191 earls
– 4 countesses in their own right
– 115 viscounts
– 426 barons/lords of parliament
– 9 baronesses/ladies of parliament in their own right

Having spent the last few hours counting and recounting baronies and driving myself gradually round the bend I feel at a loss to know which ones I could have possibly missed from Debretts' list. A discrepancy of seven seems rather a lot. Can anyone shed any light please?

I've copied my own list here, alphabetic by rank, which includes the dates of creation (again for reasons that will later become clear).

I am roundly happy to go with 796 but it's important that the list I provide is intact and doesn't miss any out. Again, for reasons I will elude to in due course and hopefully soon! Thanks so much in advance to anyone who has got this far and has the stomach for this mind-bending task...

The hereditary peerage

Dukes
Abercorn (1868)
Argyll (1701)
Atholl (1703)
Beaufort (1682)
Bedford (1694)
Buccleuch and Queensberry (1663 and 1684)
Devonshire (1694)
Fife (1900)
Grafton (1675)
Hamilton and Brandon (1643)
Leinster (1766)
Manchester (1719)
Marlborough (1702)
Montrose (1707)
Norfolk (1483)
Northumberland (1766)
Richmond, Gordon and Lennox (1675 and 1876)
Roxburghe (1707)
Rutland (1703)
Somerset (1660)
St Albans (1684)
Sutherland (1833)
Wellington (1814)
Westminster (1874)

Marquesses
Aberdeen and Temair (1916)
Abergavenny (1876)
Ailesbury (1821)
Ailsa (1831)
Anglesey (1815)
Bath (1789)
Bristol (1826)
Bute (1796)
Camden (1812)
Cholmondeley (1815)
Conyngham (1816)
Donegall (1791)
Downshire (1789)
Ely (1800)
Exeter (1801)
Headfort (1800)
Hertford (1793)
Huntly (1599)
Lansdowne (1784)
Linlithgow (1902)
Londonderry (1816)
Lothian (1701)
Milford Haven (1917)
Normanby (1838)
Northampton (1812)
Queensberry (1682)
Reading (1926)
Salisbury (1789)
Sligo (1800)
Townshend (1787)
Tweeddale (1694)
Waterford (1789)
Winchester (1551)
Zetland (1892)

Earls
Airlie (1639)
Albemarle (1697)
Alexander of Tunis (1952)
Annandale and Hartfell (1662)
Annesley (1789)
Antrim (1785)
Arran (1762)
Attlee (1955)
Aylesford (1714)
Baldwin of Bewdley (1937)
Balfour (1922)
Bathurst (1772)
Beatty (1919)
Belmore (1797)
Bessborough (1739)
Bradford (1815)
Buchan (1469)
Buckinghamshire (1746)
Cadogan (1800)
Cairns (1878)
Caithness (1455)
Caledon (1800)
Carlisle (1661)
Carnarvon (1793)
Carrick (1748)
Castle Stewart (1800)
Cathcart (1814)
Cavan (1647)
Cawdor (1827)
Chichester (1801)
Clancarty (1803)
Clanwilliam (1776)
Clarendon (1776)
Cork and Orrery (1620 and 1660)
Cottenham (1850)
Courtown (1762)
Coventry (1697)
Cowley (1857)
Cranbrook (1892)
Craven (1801)
Crawford and Balcarres (1398 and 1651)
Cromartie (1861)
Cromer (1901)
Dalhousie (1633)
Darnley (1725)
Dartmouth (1711)
De La Warr (1761)
Denbigh and Desmond (1622)
Derby (1485)
Devon (1553)
Donoughmore (1800)
Drogheda (1661)
Ducie (1837)
Dudley (1860)
Dundee (1660)
Dundonald (1669)
Dunmore (1686)
Durham (1833)
Dysart (1643)
Effingham (1837)
Eglinton and Winton (1507 and 1859)
Eldon (1821)
Elgin and Kincardine (1633 and 1647)
Enniskillen (1789)
Erne (1789)
Erroll (1453)
Essex (1661)
Ferrers (1711)
Fortescue (1789)
Gainsborough (1841)
Galloway (1623)
Glasgow (1703)
Gosford (1806)
Gowrie (1945)
Granard (1684)
Granville (1833)
Grey (1806)
Guilford (1752)
Haddington (1619)
Haig (1919)
Halifax (1944)
Hardwicke (1754)
Harewood (1812)
Harrington (1742)
Harrowby (1809)
Home (1605)
Howe (1821)
Huntingdon (1529)
Iddesleigh (1885)
Ilchester (1756)
Inchcape (1929)
Iveagh (1919)
Jellicoe (1925)
Jersey (1697)
Kilmorey (1822)
Kimberley (1866)
Kingston (1768)
Kinnoull (1633)
Kintore (1677)
Lauderdale (1624)
Leicester (1837)
Leven and Melville (1641 and 1690)
Lichfield (1831)
Limerick (1803)
Lincoln (1572)
Lindsay (1633)
Lindsey and Abingdon (1626 and 1682)
Lisburne (1776)
Listowel (1822)
Liverpool (1905)
Lloyd George of Dwyfor (1945)
Longford (1785)
Lonsdale (1807)
Loudoun (1633)
Lucan (1795)
Lytton (1880)
Macclesfield (1721)
Malmesbury (1800)
Mansfield (1776)
Mar (1404)
Mar and Kellie (1565 and 1619)
Mayo (1785)
Meath (1627)
Mexborough (1766)
Minto (1813)
Moray (1562)
Morley (1815)
Morton (1458)
Mount Edgcumbe (1789)
Mountbatten of Burma (1947)
Nelson (1805)
Newburgh (1660)
Norbury (1827)
Normanton (1806)
Northesk (1647)
Onslow (1801)
Orkney (1696)
Oxford and Asquith (1925)
Peel (1929)
Pembroke and Montgomery (1551 and 1605)
Perth (1605)
Plymouth (1905)
Portarlington (1785)
Portland (1689)
Portsmouth (1743)
Powis (1804)
Radnor (1765)
Ranfurly (1831)
Roden (1771)
Romney (1801)
Rosebery (1703)
Rosse (1806)
Rosslyn (1801)
Rothes (1458)
Russell (1861)
Saint Aldwyn (1915)
Saint Germans (1815)
Sandwich (1660)
Scarbrough (1690)
Seafield (1701)
Selborne (1882)
Selkirk (1646)
Shaftesbury (1672)
Shannon (1756)
Shrewsbury and Waterford (1442 and 1446)
Snowdon (1961)
Spencer (1765)
Stair (1703)
Stockton (1984)
Stradbroke (1821)
Strafford (1847)
Strathmore and Kinghorne (1606)
Suffolk and Berkshire (1603 and 1626)
Sutherland (c. 1235)
Swinton (1955)
Tankerville (1714)
Temple of Stowe (1822)
Verulam (1815)
Waldegrave (1729)
Warwick (1759)
Wemyss and March (1633 and 1697)
Westmeath (1621)
Westmorland (1624)
Wharncliffe (1876)
Wilton (1801)
Winchilsea and Nottingham (1628 and 1681)
Winterton (1766)
Woolton (1956)
Yarborough (1837)

Viscounts
Addison (1945)
Allenby (1919)
Allendale (1911)
Arbuthnott (1641)
Ashbrook (1751)
Astor (1917)
Bangor (1781)
Bearsted (1925)
Blakenham (1963)
Bledisloe (1935)
Bolingbroke and St John (1712 and 1716)
Boyd of Merton (1962)
Boyne (1717)
Brentford (1929)
Bridgeman (1929)
Bridport (1868)
Brookeborough (1952)
Buckmaster (1932)
Caldecote (1939)
Camrose (1941)
Chandos (1954)
Charlemont (1665)
Chelmsford (1921)
Chetwynd (1717)
Chilston (1911)
Cobham (1718)
Colville of Culross (1902)
Combermere (1827)
Cowdray (1917)
Craigavon (1927)
Daventry (1943)
Davidson (1937)
De L’Isle (1956)
de Vesci (1776)
Devonport (1917)
Dilhorne (1964)
Dillon (1622)
Doneraile (1785)
Downe (1680)
Dunrossil (1959)
Eccles (1964)
Esher (1897)
Exmouth (1816)
Falkland (1620)
Falmouth (1720)
Gage (1720)
Galway (1727)
Gormanston (1478)
Gort (1816)
Goschen (1900)
Hailsham (1929)
Hambleden (1868)
Hampden (1884)
Hanworth (1936)
Harberton (1791)
Hardinge (1846)
Hawarden (1793)
Head (1960)
Hereford (1550)
Hill (1842)
Hood (1796)
Kemsley (1945)
Knollys (1911)
Knutsford (1895)
Leathers (1954)
Lifford (1781)
Long (1921)
Mackintosh of Halifax (1957)
Malvern (1955)
Marchwood (1945)
Margesson (1942)
Massereene and Gerrard (1661 and 1797)
Melville (1802)
Mersey (1916)
Midleton (1717)
Mills (1962)
Molesworth (1716)
Monck (1801)
Monckton of Brenchley (1957)
Montgomery of Alamein (1946)
Mountgarret (1550)
Norwich (1952)
Oxfuird (1651)
Portman (1873)
Powerscourt (1744)
Ridley (1900)
Rochdale (1960)
Rothermere (1919)
Runciman of Doxford (1937)
Samuel (1937)
Scarsdale (1911)
Selby (1905)
Sidmouth (1805)
Slim (1960)
Soulbury (1954)
Southwell (1776)
St Davids (1918)
St Vincent (1801)
Stansgate (1942)
Stuart of Findhorn (1959)
Tenby (1957)
Thurso (1952)
Torrington (1721)
Trenchard (1936)
Ullswater (1921)
Valentia (1622)
Waverley (1952)
Weir (1938)
Wimborne (1918)
Younger of Leckie (1923)


Barons and lords of parliament
Aberconway (1911)
Aberdare (1873)
Abinger (1835)
Acton (1869)
Addington (1887)
Aldenham and Hunsdon (1896)
Aldingto (1962)
Altrincham (1945)
Alvingham (1929)
Amherst of Hackney (1892)
Ampthill (1881)
Amwell (1947)
Annaly (1863)
Arlington (1664)
Ashbourne (1885)
Ashburton (1835)
Ashcombe (1892)
Ashton of Hyde (1911)
Ashtown (1800)
Astor of Hever (1956)
Auckland (1789)
Avebury (1900)
Aylmer (1718)
Baden-Powell (1929)
Bagot (1780)
Baillieu (1953)
Balfour of Burleigh (1607)
Banbury of Southam (1924)
Barnard (1698)
Basing (1887)
Beaverbrook (1917)
Belhaven and Stenton (1647)
Bellew (1847)
Belper (1856)
Berkeley (1421)
Berners (1455)
Bethell (1922)
Bicester (1938)
Biddulph (1903)
Birkett (1958)
Blyth (1907)
Bolton (1797)
Borthwick (1452)
Borwick (1922)
Boston (1761)
Brabazon of Tara (1942)
Bradbury (1926)
Brain (1962)
Brassey of Apethorpe (1938)
Braybrooke (1788)
Braye (1529)
Bridges (1957)
Broadbridge (1945)
Brocket (1933)
Brougham and Vaux (1860)
Brownlow (1776)
Bruntisfield (1942)
Burden (1950)
Burgh (1529)
Burnham (1903)
Burton (1897)
Byron (1643)
Cadman (1937)
Calverley (1945)
Camoys (1383)
Carbery (1715)
Carew (1834)
Carnock (1916)
Carrington (1796)
Castlemaine (1812)
Catto (1936)
Cawley (1918)
Chesham (1858)
Chetwode (1945)
Chorley (1945)
Churchill (1815)
Churston (1858)
Clanmorris (1800)
Clifford of Chudleigh (1672)
Clinton (1299)
Clitheroe (1955)
Clwyd (1919)
Clydesmuir (1948)
Cobbold (1960)
Cochrane of Cults (1919)
Coleraine (1954)
Coleridge (1874)
Colgrain (1946)
Colwyn (1917)
Colyton (1956)
Congleton (1841)
Cornwallis (1927)
Cottesloe (1874)
Craigmyle (1929)
Cranworth (1899)
Crathorne (1959)
Crawshaw (1892)
Croft (1940)
Crofton (1797)
Cromwell (1375)
Crook (1947)
Cullen of Ashbourne (1920)
Cunliffe (1914)
Dacre (1321)
Darcy de Knayth (1332)
Daresbury (1927)
Darling (1924)
Darwen (1946)
Davies (1932)
de Clifford (1299)
de Freyne (1851)
de Mauley (1838)
de Ramsey (1887)
de Ros (1264)
de Saumarez (1831)
de Villiers (1910)
Decies (1812)
Delamere (1821)
Denham (1937)
Denman (1834)
Derwent (1881)
Dickinson (1930)
Digby (1620)
Dormer (1615)
Dowding (1943)
Dudley (1440)
Dufferin and Clandeboye (1800)
Dulverton (1929)
Dunalley (1800)
Dunboyne (1541)
Dunleath (1892)
Dunsany (1439)
Dynevor (1780)
Elibank (1643)
Ellenborough (1802)
Elphinstone (1510)
Elton (1934)
Fairfax of Cameron (1627)
Fairhaven (1961)
Faringdon (1916)
Farnham (1756)
Fermoy (1856)
Feversham (1826)
ffrench (1798)
Fisher (1909)
FitzWalter (1295)
Foley (1776)
Forbes (1442)
Forester (1821)
Forres (1922)
Forteviot (1917)
Freyberg (1951)
Gainford (1917)
Garvagh (1818)
Geddes (1942)
Gerard (1876)
Gifford (1824)
Gisborough (1917)
Glanusk (1899)
Glenarthur (1918)
Glenconner (1911)
Glendevon (1964)
Glendyne (1922)
Glentoran (1939)
Gorell (1909)
Grantchester (1953)
Grantley (1782)
Graves (1794)
Gray (1444)
Greenway (1927)
Grenfell (1902)
Gretton (1944)
Grey of Codnor (1397)
Gridley (1955)
Grimston of Westbury (1964)
Grimthorpe (1886)
Hacking (1945)
Haden-Guest (1950)
Hamilton of Dalzell (1886)
Hampton (1874)
Hankey (1939)
Harding of Petherton (1958)
Hardinge of Penshurst (1910)
Harlech (1876)
Harmsworth (1939)
Harris (1815)
Harvey of Tasburgh (1954)
Hastings (1295)
Hatherton (1835)
Hawke (1776)
Hayter (1927)
Hazlerigg (1945)
Hemingford (1943)
Hemphill (1906)
Henley (1799)
Henniker (1800)
Herbert (1461)
Herries of Terregles (1490)
Hesketh (1935)
Heytesbury (1828)
Hindlip (1886)
Hives (1950)
Hollenden (1912)
HolmPatrick (1897)
Hotham (1797)
Hothfield (1881)
Howard de Walden (1597)
Howard of Penrith (1930)
Howick of Glendale (1960)
Huntingfield (1796)
Hylton (1866)
Iliffe (1933)
Inchiquin (1543)
Inchyra (1962)
Inglewood (1964)
Inverforth (1919)
Ironside (1941)
Jeffreys (1952)
Joicey (1906)
Kenilworth (1937)
Kennet (1935)
Kensington (1776)
Kenswood (1951)
Kenyon (1788)
Kershaw (1947)
Keyes (1943)
Kilbracken (1909)
Killanin (1900)
Killearn (1943)
Kilmaine (1789)
Kilmarnock (1831)
Kindersley (1941)
Kingsale (c. 1340)
Kinloss (1602)
Kinross (1902)
Kirkwood (1951)
Langford (1800)
Latham (1942)
Latymer (1432)
Layton (1947)
Leconfield and Egremont (1859 and 1963)
Leigh (1839)
Leighton of St Mellons (1962)
Lilford (1797)
Lindsay of Birker (1945)
Lisle (1758)
Londesborough (1850)
Louth (1541)
Lovat (1464)
Lucas of Crudwell and Lord Dingwall (1663)
Lucas of Chilworth (1946)
Luke (1929)
Lyveden (1859)
MacAndrew (1959)
Macdonald (1776)
Maclay (1922)
Macpherson of Drumochter (1951)
Mancroft (1937)
Manners (1807)
Manton (1922)
Marchamley (1908)
Margadale (1965)
Marks of Broughton (1961)
Martonmere (1964)
Massy (1776)
May (1935)
McGowan (1937)
McNair (1955)
Merrivale (1925)
Merthyr (1911)
Meston (1919)
Methuen (1838)
Middleton (1712)
Milford (1939)
Milne (1933)
Milner of Leeds (1951)
Milverton (1947)
Moncreiff (1874)
Monk Bretton (1884)
Monkswell (1885)
Monson (1728)
Montagu of Beaulieu (1885)
Monteagle of Brandon (1839)
Moran (1943)
Morris (1918)
Morris of Kenwood (1950)
Mostyn (1831)
Mottistone (1933)
Mountevans (1945)
Mowbray, Segrave and Stourton (1283, 1295 and 1448)
Moyne (1932)
Moynihan (1929)
Muskerry (1781)
Napier and Ettrick (1627 and 1872)
Napier of Magdala (1868)
Nathan (1940)
Nelson of Stafford (1960)
Netherthorpe (1959)
Newall (1946)
Newborough (1776)
Newton (1892)
Noel-Buxton (1930)
Norrie (1957)
Northbourne (1884)
Northbrook (1866)
Norton (1878)
Nunburnholme (1906)
O’Hagan (1870)
O’Neill (1868)
Ogmore (1950)
Oranmore and Browne (1836 and 1926)
Palmer (1933)
Parmoor (1914)
Pender (1937)
Penrhyn (1866)
Petre (1603)
Phillimore (1918)
Piercy (1945)
Plunket (1827)
Poltimore (1831)
Polwarth (1690)
Ponsonby of Shulbrede (1930)
Poole (1958)
Raglan (1852)
Rankeillour (1932)
Rathcavan (1953)
Rathcreedan (1916)
Rathdonnell (1868)
Ravensdale (1911)
Ravensworth (1821)
Rayleigh (1821)
Rea (1937)
Reay (1628)
Redesdale (1902)
Reith (1940)
Remnant (1928)
Rendlesham (1806)
Rennell (1933)
Renwick (1964)
Revelstoke (1885)
Ritchie of Dundee (1905)
Riverdale (1935)
Robertson of Oakridge (1961)
Roborough (1938)
Rochester (1931)
Rockley (1934)
Rodney (1782)
Rollo (1651)
Rootes (1959)
Rossmore (1796)
Rotherwick (1939)
Rothschild (1885)
Rowallan (1911)
Rugby (1947)
Russell of Liverpool (1919)
Sackville (1876)
Saltoun (1445)
Sanderson of Ayot (1960)
Sandford (1945)
Sandhurst (1871)
Savile (1888)
Saye and Sele (1447)
Seaford (1826)
Selsdon (1932)
Sempill (1488)
Shaughnessy (1916)
Shepherd (1946)
Sherfield (1964)
Shuttleworth (1902)
Silkin (1950)
Silsoe (1963)
Simon of Wythenshawe (1947)
Sinclair (1449)
Sinclair of Cleeve (1957)
Sinha (1919)
Skelmersdale (1828)
Somerleyton (1916)
Somers (1784)
Southampton (1780)
Spens (1959)
St Helens (1964)
St John of Bletso (1559)
St Levan (1887)
St Oswald (1885)
Stafford (1640)
Stamp (1938)
Stanley of Alderley (1783)
Strabolgi (1318)
Strange (1628)
Strathalmond (1955)
Strathcarron (1936)
Strathclyde (1955)
Strathcona and Mount Royal (1900)
Stratheden and Campbell (1836)
Strathspey (1884)
Sudeley (1838)
Suffield (1786)
Swansea (1893)
Swaythling (1907)
Swinfen (1919)
Talbot of Malahide (1831)
Tedder (1946)
Tennyson (1884)
Terrington (1918)
Teviot (1940)
Teynham (1616)
Thomson of Fleet (1964)
Thurlow (1792)
Tollemache (1876)
Torphichen (1564)
Trefgarne (1947)
Trevethin and Oaksey (1921 and 1947)
Trevor (1880)
Tryon (1940
Tweedsmuir (1935)
Vaux of Harrowden (1523)
Ventry (1800)
Vernon (1762)
Vestey (1922)
Vivian (1941)
Wakehurst (1934)
Walpole (1723)
Walsingham (1780)
Waterpark (1792)
Wedgwood (1942)
Westbury (1861)
Westwood (1944)
Wharton (1544)
Wigram (1935)
Willoughby de Broke (1491)
Willoughby de Eresby (1313)
Windlesham (1937)
Wise (1951)
Wolverton (1869)
Wraxall (1928)
Wrenbury (1915)
Wrottesley (1838)
Wynford (1829)
Zouche (1308)

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi Eleanor.

I 'm not sure when Debrett's figure of 803 was reached.  It might have been before some of the hereditary peers died and the titles became extinct.  

At present, my list is at 801, and at first glance,  I can tell some of the difference between our two lists is that mine includes members of the Royal Family (5 Royal Dukes plus the Duke of Edinburgh (a life peer), in his capacity as the Earl of Wessex (and Earl of Forfar).

So that would add the following titles to your list:

Royal Dukes

Cornwall (1337), Rothesay (1398) and Cambridge (2011)

Gloucester (1928)

Kent (1934)

Sussex (2018)

York (1986)

Earls

Wessex (1999) and Forfar (2019)

I also have 24 "ordinary" Dukes and 34 Marquesses on my list, so I'll be checking from the rank of Earl/Countess downward.

I'm going to look through the rest of it and see where there might be differences in our lists and will post here.

At least this will keep me from a trip to the fridge!  :)

Brooke

[bx...@yahoo.com]

The Cavan earldom is now listed as dormant (since 1988) by DPB Online.

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

Ahh, that's a good point and one that honestly hadn't occurred to me! Perhaps I give Debrett's too much credit (probably).

Yes, I'm not including members of the royal family, except the Earl of Snowdon. 

The breakdown I've got for the list below is:

– 24 dukes

– 34 marquesses

– 189 earls and countesses

– 110 viscounts

– 439 barons/lords

Very kind of you to have a look, thank you – it is enormously appreciated!

Yours,

E

[bx...@yahoo.com]

Hi again Eleanor.

Glad to help!

Debrett's is certainly useful, but not always  accurate, as many of us have often found.

I have checked my earls/countesses list and it matches the 189 you have.    I also have 110 viscounts, and 439 barons/baronesses/lords and ladies.

If you need anything else, please don't hesitate to ask. 

Best,

Brooke

[Eleanor Doughty]

Thank you very much – I am satisfied that that's everyone accounted for then! V kind.

[Denise Bellingham]

Dear E,

Do you have a list that includes the families in the hereditary peerage of Baronets?

Thank you.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/peerage-news/dc508e00-b4f2-4d4c-8b08-3a1911ac3432n%40googlegroups.com.

[Eleanor Doughty]

Afraid not, sorry!

[S. S.]

Denise, you can look through the Roll of the Baronetage on the web for baronetcies and their holders. You may have to twiddle and research a bit to take care of any discrepancies or anomalies. Alternatively, you can look through Stephen Kershaw's baronetcy list, which includes analysis. 

S.S.

[BREMENMURRAY]

Cavan is not strictly extinct. There is a descent of the seventh Earl who has yet to establish his claim as the twelfth Earl

[bx...@yahoo.com]

BREMENMURRAY, as I had posted earlier, the title is "dormant", not extinct.  

In the last printed edition of Debrett's, they had, in fact, listed Roger Cavan Lambart (b. 1944), descended from the 7th son of the 7th Earl as "styled 13th Earl".

However, DPB Online now says that there is a possible descent from the 6th son of the 7th Earl.  If there is at least one such male, they would have the superior claim to the title than Roger Lambart.  Apparently, this was enough for them to change the status of the earldom to "dormant."

After Mr. Lambart, there are 7 other males who are in remainder, all descendants of the 2nd son of the 1st Earl, so there are definitely male descendants.

The only question is if and when will succession to this title be successfully proven.

Brooke

[BREMENMURRAY]

Once the House of Lords reforms are enacted how will Roger Lambert establish his claim.Very difficult to prove someone who may exist does not

[S. S.]

 BREMENMURRAY, if you look at the separate explanatory notes for the bill, there is the following point:

"As well as removing the final link between hereditary peerage and membership of the House of Lords, the Bill also abolishes the jurisdiction of the House of Lords in hereditary peerage claims. The intention is that:

a. any complex or disputed peerage claims that would have otherwise been referred to the House of Lords will instead be referred to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council by way of section 4 of the Judicial Committee Act 1833; 

and b. claimants to a peerage of Ireland will no longer petition the House of Lords to confirm their succession."

Claims will not be affected, though rather moot since I doubt anyone will come forward with a claim to a peerage (in case of Cavan) or even for other peerages in future should this bill pass, doesn't make much sense for people to keep proving peerage claims if they don't get much out of it in the first place (and since most wanted to stand in by-election as a hereditary peer anyway they don't have much of any need either). 

S.S.

[colinp]

Baronets (not all obviously) have been proving their claims and being entered on the Official Roll of the Baronetage for over 100 years and arguably they don't get much out of it.  No reason to think that peers won't carry on proving their titles and being entered on the Roll of the Peerage - not all will but many will.

[S. S.]

There is also the case to consider that peers have been proving their descent for centuries by being placed on the roll of peers in the House of Lords, up until that was replaced by the royal warrant authorizing a new roll to be kept distinct in the early 2000s after the House of Lords reform. Baronets on the other hand only had their roll created by the early 20th century. 

S.S.

[Shachar Raz]

2004 for the Roll of the Peerage and 1910 for the Roll of the Baronetage to be exact

[marquess]

Shouldn't Shrewsbury be listed as Shrewsbury and Waterford and Talbot and Warwick as Brooke and of Warwick? Also another curiosity going slightly off topic, are there any other 20th century Viscount creations that had a subsidary title created at the same time, like Chilston? It seems to be quite singular in this regard I have not been able to find out why the barony of Douglas of Baads was created at the same time.

[Eleanor Doughty]

For my list I took what Debretts listed each title as and it lists Warwick as 'Warwick', and Shrewsbury as 'Shrewsbury and Waterford' which is good enough for me!