Questions about the de Vismes family

[Paul Theroff]

I was wondering whether anyone had information to help sort out the wives and children of Julius Sullivan de Vismes. The de Vismes family are of French nobility, and may have had permission to use foreign titles in the UK. They had some marriages to British aristocracy.


Here is what I have found:

Julius Sullivan de Vismes was son of Francis de Vismes (1793-1869) and of his wife, Harriet Sullivan.

I had from some British genealogy that he m.1st Jane Scott Douglas Grimmond (d.8 Dec 1855), and m.2nd "Mrs Isaacs", and that he had one son by 1st m., three sons, one dau, by 2nd m.

Findagrave has one Eliza Labey de Vismes, who must have been wife of this Julius.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/210143853/eliza-de_vismes

It says they married in 1863, though it lists children born before that.

Buried with her are:

"In Loving Memory of
NITHARD RAOUL de VISMES
Died 22nd August 1859
Aged 22 days
Also of
NITHARD VALERY de VISMES
Died 18th August 1862
Aged 24 days
And of
ROBERT SULIVAN de VISMES
Died 11th June 1897
Aged 35 years
Also of ELIZA LABEY
Widow of Julius Sulivan de Vismes
And mother to the above
Died 9th December 1906
Aged 76 years
Also
JULIUS PHILIP de VISMES
Son of the above
Died 23rd January 1928
Aged 68 years"

It further says:

"Not buried here are two Daughters:
b 25 Jun 1863 Lilian de Vismes
b 30 Jul 1866 Emily Rozel de Vismes"


Julius Sullivan de Vismes for some reaon is buried elsewhere:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/247911892/julius_sullivan-de_vismes_et_de_ponthieu

along with yet another son, who fell from a window in 1873. See long article attached to:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/247912150/nithard_harlowen_raoul_valeré-de_vismes_et_de_ponthieu

[S. S.]

Heraldica has extensive info on them: 

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/foreigntitles.htm

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/Vismes.htm

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/TNA/HO_45_8817.htm

S.S.

[S. S.]

Also from Heraldica: 

British de Vismes family: a genealogy

The following genealogy of the descendants of Peter and Philip de Visme is based largely on original documents. I initially started from Burke's Peerage (1874, 1938: the last edition with a section on foreign titles), Annuaire de la Noblesse de France 1865 (p. 223-228, largely based on various editions of Burke's Peerage), Burke's Commoners (IV:321), Ruvigny's Titled Nobility (1914, p. 1528). But these secondary sources are not always reliable and I have corrected as much as possible, though errors may remain.

Pierre de Visme (+3 Feb 1768, probate 16 Feb 1768)
admitted into freedom of City of London (haberdasher) 22 Oct 1728)
Hamburg merchant; of Bartholomew Lane, later Clapham
~ (27 Jun 1717 London) Madelaine Beaufils (bur. St Bartholomew 10 Sep 1760)
all children baptized at St Martin Orgars

• Pierre / Peter (10 Jun 1718 - 27 Mar 1771 Clapham, bur. St Bartholomew 4 Apr, probate 9 Apr 1771)
• Philippe (21 Oct 1719-c1760)
  ~ (8 Dec 1751, Trinity Church, New York City) Anne Stilwell
  widow of Theodosius Bartow of Shewsbury, NJ
  • Elisabeth Beaufils (1752-)
    ~ (31 Dec 1772, Mortlake, Surrey) Jean Duval, diamond merchant of Genevese origin
    • Lewis Duval (11 Nov 1774 bap. Fr. Chapel Savoy - 1844), lawyer (see Oxford Dictionary of National Biography)
  • Pierre Anthony (1754-c1780) unm.
    
  • Samuel (1756-) unm. in Barbados (will proved 16 Nov 1793)
    
  • Catherine (1758-)
    ~ (2 Jul 1782, Paramus, NJ) Joseph Browne
  • Philip (b. 1760, NY) unm.
    
• Elisabeth (b. 17 Oct 1720 - bur. 29 Apr 1723 St John at Hackney)
• Marie Anne (b. 28 Sep 1721)
  ~ (24 Jul 1746, Lee, Kent) James Dalbiac
  • Elizabeth (2 Jul 1747, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • James (11 Jul 1750, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Charles (1 Apr 1754, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • John (3 Nov 1756, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Susan (5 Nov 1758, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Louise Sophia (17 Mar 1764, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
• Anne (b. 28 Feb 1722/3)
• Elisabeth (b. 2 Jun 1724)
• Elisabeth (27 oct 1725 - bur. 18 Jan 1726/7 St John at Hackney)
• Jean (13 Feb 1726/7 - 15 Dec 1759, bur. 22 Dec St. Bartholomew) unm. will proved 2 Jan 1760
  Hamburg merchant
• Isaac (2 Jan 1727/8 - bur. 27 Dec 1741 St. Bartholomew)
• Marie (23 Nov 1728-)
  ~ (2 Feb 1759, Spitalfields Christ Church, Stepney, London) Daniel Messman
  • Louise (7 Jul 1761, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Daniel (9 Oct 1762, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Charles (30 Oct 1764, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
• George (24 Nov 1729-)
• Susanne (28 Oct 1730-)
~ Charles Dalbiac

• • Peter (9 Jan 1760, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Louise (3 Feb 1761, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
  • Susan (22 Apr 1762, bap. Spitalfields French Prot. - )
• Guillaume (25 Jul 1732 - bur. 23 Apr 1736 St Bartholomew)
  
• David (13 Feb 1734/5- 6 Dec 1789, Great Missenden, Bucks)
  merchant at Silesia and London; distributor of stamps for Middlesex
  ~ (Nov 1782) Philippa Sheriff
  • Elizabeth Sophia de Visme (bap 30 Jan 1775, Holy Trinity, Clapham)
    ~ (11 Feb 1801 St Marylebone, London) John Baillie
    
• Elisabeth (24 Mar 1735/6 - bur. 15 Sep 1763 St. Bartholomew)
  ~ (1 Sep 1757, Holy Trinity, Clapham) William Sampson
  
  • Elizabeth

Philippe (15 Sep 1687-buried 25 Oct 1756, Clapham, Surrey)
~ (26 Jul 1716, Spring Gardens Chapel, Charing Cross) Marianne de la Méjanelle (d. 16 Feb 1779)
all children baptized at St Martin Orgars

• Philippe (4 May 1717, London)
• André (b. 19 May 1718 - 10 Jul 1779, bur. All Hallows Staining), Esq
  ~(24 Aug 1742, clandestine) Ann Parker
  • Philip Nathaniel (5 Jan 1744 St Martin Orgars - Aug 1817, Kensington), Esq will proved 1817
    ~ (10 Jun 1771, Chislehurst, Kent) Jane Rush (bur. 3 Feb 1823, Kensington)
    
    • Philip (b. 23 Nov 1776 St Swithin) s.p. will proved 7 Aug 1828
      
    • Gerard (b. 20 Sep 1778 St Swithin+ Brighton, bur. 10 Jul 1835 Brightelmston, Sussex) will proved 22 Jul 1835
      cornet, 1797; retires 1798
      ~ (2 May 1818 Kensington) Eliza Ella Torriano (bur. 27 Aug 1864)
    • Jane (b 18 Feb 1780 St Swithin - bur. 30 Oct 1819)
    • Louisa Boscawen (bap 14 Oct 1782 Bromley, Kent - 1862 Brighton)
      ~ (15 May 1809 Kensington) John Louis Goldsmid
      • Louis Davison (2 May 1811 - 21 Feb 1889 West Malling, Kent)
        Eton, Oxford, Balliol College 1828 - curate at Brighton; changed surname from Goldsmid to De Visme
      • Louisa (10 Feb 1810, Dorking - 1911, Hollingbourn, Kent)
        ~ Richard Thomas
        • Ella de Visme
          ~ (15 Apr 1860 Hollingbourn, Kent) Robert John Shaw
          • issue
        • Bertha Jardine (1845 Hollingbourn, Kent -1932)
          ~ 1873 Edward Delmar Morgan
          • Edward Lewis Delmar (bap 27 May 1875)
          • Bertha Woodline Delmar (bap 15 Dec 1876)
          • John Godfrey Yate Delmar (bap 17 May 1878)
          • Ella Mary Delmar (bap 11 Nov 1879)
          • Vera Caroline Delmar (bap 8 Dec 1880)
        • Mary Julia (c1847 Hollingbourn, Kent -)
        • Richard Gerard de Visme (c1849 Hollingbourn, Kent - 1900 Hollingbourn, Kent)
          ~ Augusta Emma Cartwright (d. 2 Feb 1949 Hollingbourn, Kent)
          • Richard Gerard de Visme (20 Mar 1888 Hollingbourn - 19 Mar 1958 Pembury, Kent)
          • Edward Stephen de Visme (12 Aug 1891 - )
          • Louisa Fanny de Visme
    • Harriet (b. 8 Apr 1785 Bromley, Kent - bur. 25 Jul 1823 Kensington)
      ~ (11 Feb 1815 St Mary Abbots, Kensington) Edward Goulburn
• Louis (25 Sep 1720-4 Sep 1776) unm.; diplomat
  see entry in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography
• Etienne (18 May 1723-2 Nov 1770 Canton, China)
• Gérard (6 Feb 1725/6- bur. 29 Oct 1797 Wimbledon) will proved 1798
  factor in Lisbon where he made a fortune; builder of the Monserrate estate near Sintra
  • Emilie (b. 18 Mar 1787 Lisbon, Portugal - d. 23 Nov 1873)
    ~ (28 Jun 1810 St Marylebone, London) Sir Henry Murray
    
    • Susan Emily (1811 London - 1873)
    • Gertrude Louisa (1814 Brighton - 1904)
    • Henry Stormont (1812 - 1863)
    • Frederick Stormont (1813 - 1903)
    • Arthur Stormont (1820 - 1848)
• Léon (14 Sep 1727-17 Aug 1766) s.p.
• Guillaume (William) (6 Feb 1729, London - 16 Jun 1781, Beckenham, Kent)
  one of the directors of the Royal Exchange Assurance
  ~ 1756 Elisabeth Auriol (c1738 [possibly Lyon 18 Feb 1738] - d. 29 Jun 1828, Stanton Drew, Somerset), d. of Elisée Auriol and Marguerite Fesquet
  • Elisha (Élisée) William, comte de Vismes (28 Jun 1758, bap French Ch. Savoy - 31 Oct 1840 St. Thomas, Devon)
    ensign, 1779; lieutenant, 1789; lt-colonel Coldstream Guards, 1794
    ~ (20 Oct 1802 Lyme Regis) Jeanne Salt (d. Jan 25, 1856 Exmouth aged 85) widow of Dr Hall, sister of M. Salt, consul in Egypt
    • William (19 Jul 1805 Somerset - 7 Aug 1877 Cesson (St-Brieuc), France)
      ~ (18 Jul 1832 Broadway, Somerset) Eliza Carter Palmer (d. 27 Jan 1885 Cesson (St-Brieuc), France), d. of Rev. W. Palmer
      note: styled "vicompte de Visme" in the marriage register
      • Theobald Raoul Guillaume [William] (28 Dec 1833, Orléans, France - 31 Oct 1878 Enge, Switzerland)
        ~(29 Jan 1859 St Helier, Jersey) Caroline Annie Musgrave (d. 21 Nov 1903 St Leonards-on-Sea)
        • Valery Theobald Guillaume (23d Nov 1859 Brussels (bap. St. George's, 12 Jan 1861)-5 Mar 1895 Tangier)
          entered diplomatic service as interpreter, 1883; interpreter with rank of vice-consul in Tangier, 1890
          ~(12 Sep 1885 Constantinople) Angele, d. of late Skender Bey Fritsch, Constantinople
          • Alexander William Theobald (10 Sep 1888-14 Feb 1945, Granada Spain)
            ~ (13 Nov. 1917; div. 1927) Eileen Bede Dalley (+1968 Southwark)
            • William Valery (10 Feb 1919 - 5 May 1967 Marylebone, London)
              ~ (Dec 1945 Marylebone, London) Renee Soloman (25 Jan 1909 - Dec 2000 Kensington)
              • Henry
          
          ~ (Sep 1940 Madrid Chamberí) Rafaela Isabel Perez Rubio del Castillo (d. 18 Apr 1992 Madrid)
          • • Rafael Luis (+ Jul 1994 Madrid)
              ~ María Teresa Sáez Canseco (d. 8 Jul 2003)
          • Louis Auriol Robert Musgrave (30 Jan 1894 Tangier - 12 Apr 1971 London)
            junior clerk in consulate, Constantinople, 1912; lieutenant, intelligence corps 1941; captain, 1944; retires 1947
          • Bertha Caroline Amelia (d. 25 Jan 1937, Bucharest, aged 51)
            ~(2 Jun 1904 Constantinople) baron Jean de Styrcea, master of ceremonies at the Romanian court
            • Victor (b. 30 Mar 1905, d. Dec 1990 Tunbridge Wells, Kent)
              ~ (1949 Kensington) Joan F. Robinson (b. 17 Sep 1918 d. Jun 1997 Tunbridge Wells, Kent)
              • Michael Edward David (b. 1954 - )
                • issue
          • Valerie Alice Julia Gladys
            ~ 1912 Eduardo Félix Arnolds Aldenhoven (b. 19 Sep 1883 Valparaiso, Chile)
        • Raoul Guy Richard (6 Jan 1864 Louvain (bap. 19 Apr 1864 St. George's Brussels) -Jul 24, 1901, Pondichery)
          Royal Military College; Northamptons R., 2d lt 1883; seconded to India Staff Corps, 1885; lt, 1887; capt., ?; consul in Pondichery, 1900
          ~ 1896 Beatrice Evelyn d. of William Hope Hall
          • Gerard Richard Musgrave (b. 22 Feb 1897, Aden Arabia - 2 Oct 1934 Bromley, Kent)
          • Alexandrina (b. 10 Oct 1898 at sea - )
        • Elise Caroline Julia Bertha ((bap. 24 Jan 1862 St. George's Brussels) - d. Feb 17, 1941 Torquay)
        • Bertha Marianne Adelaide Jeanne ((bap. 20 Nov 1862 Louvain)
      • Angilbert [Valery] (28 Jan 1835, Orléans, France - 31 Dec 1909 Nice) d.s.p.
        ~ (1859) Augusta Adelaide Musgrave (d. 17 Nov 1893 Nice), d. of Rev Richard Adolphus Musgrave
    • Henry (9 Dec 1808 Hatch Beauchamp, Somerset-2 Sep 1874, Bedford)
      ensign 1826; lt 1829
      ~ (15 May 1834, ?) Caroline Sarah Sophia Jones, d. of vice-admiral Alexander Jones (Apr 6, 1811-Aug 5, 1877)
      • Henry Auriol Douglas (b. 17 Apr 1835 Orléans, France - 21 Nov 1893) s.p.
        Cheltenham College, 1847-50; RMA Woolwich; 1st lieutenant 1854 [Crimean War Feb-Oct 1855]; 2nd captain R.A. 1861; resigns 1871
      • Alexander Montgomery (b. 17 Jul 1837 Exmouth, Devon - 15 Apr 1902 London) unm.
        Exeter Gazette, 17 Jul 1837: "July 17, at the residence of her father, the Hon. A. Jones, on the Parade, Exmouth, the Countess Henry de Vismes, of a son."
        clerk in the civil service
      • William Edward Robert St. Vallery (3 Jun 1839 St. Thomas, Devon - 23 Oct 1851, bur. 30 Oct St Peter, Bedford)
      • Philippe Charles Montreuil (12 May 1841 Le Havre - 9 Sep 1860)
        midshipman RN, 1841; lost on HMS Camilla
      • Henry John Hugh (24 Feb 1843 France - 13 Jul 1921, London)
        ensign, West India R., 1864; lieutenant 1865; resigns 1867; later capt. in Bedfordshire militia (resigns 1887); assistant manager to wine merchant, London (1891)
      • Charles Theobald (14 Apr 1854 Bedford - 20 Feb 1919) unm.
        lieutenant, Bedford militia, 1876; resigns 1886
      • Sophia Jane Mary (c1838 Exmouth, Devon - 1 Jul 1919, Southampton)
        nurse (1871)
      • Bertha Caroline (Jan 1846, Bideford, Devon - 12 Feb 1930 Marylebone, London)
      • Eleonor Alice Lydia (bap. 28 Apr 1848 Cheltenham, Glouc - Dec 20, 1926) unm.
        
    • Eliza Jane (d. 1853)
      ~ Joseph Kane (d. 1841)
      • William Francis de Vismes Kane (1840-1918)
  • James (bap. 2 Aug 1759 St. Bartholomew - 29 Oct 1826 Milbrook, Hamps)
    barrister
    "Died on Sunday last at Milbrook Manor House, at an advanced age, James De Vismes, Esq." Hampshire Telegraph, 30 Oct 1826
    ~ (14 Jul 1788) Elisabeth Bearcroft, d. of Edward Bearcroft (d. 13 Mar 1818, Newent)
    
    • James Edward (b. 4 Nov 1791, Newent, Glouc - 12 Nov 1859 Bath)
      Gaius and Gonville College, 1810-15; ordained 1815; curate, St John's Hospital, Bath (1841-51); curate, Bathampton (1851-58)
      ~ (1820) Sophia Staines, d. of Sir William Staines
    • Francis (23 Dec 1793-18 Dec 1869 Jersey)
      ensign, 1810; lt., 1813; capt. by purchase, Apr 1818; retires as lt-col., 80th Foot, 1854
      ~ (6 May 1824) Harriet Sullivan, d. of Sir Benjamin Sullivan
      • Francis Sulivan (18 Feb 1825-27 May 1828)
        
      • Julius Sulivan (11 Aug 1826-8 Jan 1876)
        ~(10 Aug 1848 Trinity Ch., Marylebone) Jane Scott Douglas Grimmond (+8 Dec 1855)
        • Philip Douglas (b. 13 Jun 1849 - bur. 5 Nov 1849 Chertsey)
        • Jane
      ~ (28 May 1857 St Saviour Jersey) Eliza Labey, widow of Isaac Banbury
      her portrait in 1858
      • • Julius Philip (b 23 Sep 1857 Quimper - Jan 23, 1928 Bel Royal, Jersey)
        • Nithard Raoul (21 Jul 1859- 12 Aug 1859 Jersey)
        • Robert Sulivan (31 Aug 1861 Grouville, Jersey - 11 Jun 1897)
        • Nithard Valery (d. 18 Aug 1862, Jersey, aged 3 weeks)
        • Lilian Jane (25 Jun 1863)
          ~ (17 Jan 1883 St. Helier, Jersey) Edwin Godfray (22 Sep 1852 Jersey - 27 Apr 1910)
          son of Alfred Godfray, surgeon, and Henrietta A.
          • Beatrice Lilian (5 Nov 1883 Jersey - bur. 25 Jan 1961 Waltham Forest)
            ~(Jan 1910 Paddington) Thomas F. De Patterson
          • Geraldine Irene (21 Dec 1884 Jersey - )
            ~ (10 Oct 1908 Bombay) John Martin (b 1865 - )
            
            • John Leal de Vismes (Jul 1909 Lewisham, Kent - 29 Jul 1966)
            • Geraldine Mary Rose (1912 Lewisham, Kent - )
            • James Arnold Godfray [Martin St. Valery] (18 Sep 1916 - 2006)
              
              • issue
          • Edwin de Vismes (4 May 1886 Jersey - 4 Jun 1917 Lancaster)
            ~ (5 Dec 1904 Greenwich) Margaret Frances Sprague
            • Lilian Madeleine de Vismes (16 Sep 1905 Lee, London - Apr 1994, Honiton, Devon)
              ~(Jun 1932 Paddington) Arthur Rickards Theweneti (1907 Godstone, Surrey - Jun 1938 Winchester, Hamp)
              • John E. (1933- Mar 1937 Surrey)
              • Ian Patrick G. (17 Mar 1938 Southampton - May 1999, Leeds)
                ~(Sep 1960, Ealing) Kathleen Davis
                • issue
            • Maureen Irene de Vismes (12 Feb 1907 Lee, London - 29 Sep 1957, Ealing)
            • Brenda Poppy (26 Oct 1908 Montmorency, France - Jun 1970, Chelsea)
          • Reginald Valery de Vismes [R. de V.] (26 Jun 1887 Jersey - 3 Feb 1939 Ceylon)
            departs for Ceylan 25 Sep 1915, works as a tea planter
            ~ Muriel N.
            • Patricia (c1928 - )
        • Emily Rozel (30 Jul 1866 St. Martin, Jersey - bur. 9 Oct 1866 Cossington, Somerset)
        • Nithard Harlowen Valery (29 Aug 1868 Bridgwater, Somerset - 13 Jul 1873 Romsey, Hamps)
          Nithard died from an accidental fall at the family home, Abbey House; his father described himself at the coroner inquest as "Le Prince Julius de Vismes et de Ponthieu" (Hampshire Advertiser, 19 Jul 1873, p. 7)
      • George Robert Sullivan (bap 19 Oct 1830, Weybridge - 29 Oct 1878 St. Brelade, Jersey)
        ~ (12 Jun 1872, St Clement, Jersey) Anna Augusta Pond (+6 Dec 1914)
        • Robert Francis James (b. 3 May 1873 St. Brelade, Jersey - 15 Jun 1950, Jersey)
          captain, Devon Regt (1901)
          ~ (11 Feb 1914 St Brelade, Jersey) Marguerite Jenkinson (d. 1940)
          
          • Robert Raoul St Valery (26 Sep 1916-1956)
            
      • Elizabeth Margaret (1827-1890)
        ~(29 Nov 1871 St Saviour, Jersey) James Bayly Pond (d. 1880)
        
      • Julia
    • Andrew Joseph (bap. 10 Aug 1797, Newent, Glouc - Worcester 1851) will proved 3 Apr 1851
      ~ (8 Feb 1842, West Bromwich, Staff) Martha Wagstaff
      • Andrew Joseph/Arthur (8 Nov 1847 Worcester - 5 May 1899 Ixelles, Belgium)
        accountant
        ~ (31 Jan 1880 St Mary Lambeth) Henrietta Schallehn
        • Arthur Henry (12 Feb 1880 Chiswick - Mar 1951 Battersea)
          clerk
          ~ (13 Mar 1903 St Paul, Clapham) Jane Catherine Trimlett
          • Constance Mary (1904-12)
          • Bertha Florence (1908-88)
            ~1929 Sidney G. Harlock
          
          ~1950 Annie Amelia Sweetland
    • Edward (9 Jan 1806, bap. 10 Sep Newent, Glouc - bur. 18 Aug 1880, Cheltenham)
      ensign 1827, retires as lt 81st Foot 1830
      ~ (28 Aug 1842, St Helier, Jersey) Elisabeth Halford, d. of John Halford
      • Gerard Auriol (27 Apr 1845 Saint-Servan, France - 29 Jun 1880 Murree, Bengal, India)
        captain, 84th hussars 1877
        ~ (9 Jul 1878 Cheltenham) Geraldine Mary Kyrle Money (c1856 India - 20 Oct 1908 Hampshire)
        remarried 30 Apr 1890 to Robert Lewis Verity
        • Gerard Auriol (1 Jul 1880, Murree, Bengal, India - )
      • Mary Isabella (17 Sep 1848 Saint-Servan, France -)
        ~ (7 Jan 1874 Cheltenham) Robert William King (d. 24 Nov 1881 St. Leonard's on sea s.p.)
    • Marianne Clare (b 31 May 1789, b. 1 Jul 1789, St George Martyr, Queen Sq)
    • Philippa (bap. 28 Dec 1792 Newent - 21 Mar 1867 Weston, Somerset)
      ~ (27 May 1813 Newent) John Holder
      • Katherine (b c1820)
        ~ N. Martin
        ~ (27 Jun 1872 Weston, Somerset) Vesey Thomas Bunbury
    • Laetitia Jane (bap. 8 Jul 1795, Newent, Glouc)
    • Anne (b. 4 Sep 1798, Newent, Glouc - 17 Jun 1871 Llanuwchllyn, Merioneth)
      ~ (26 Jul 1824) Robert Stephenson Forth Cumberbatch Amiel
    • Sarah (b. 31 May 1803, Newent, Glouc)
    • Julia (bap. 27 Dec 1807 Newent - bur. 4 Jul 1887 St Brelade, Jersey)
  
  ~ (2 Mar 1819) Charlotte Chatfield, d. of Francis Chatfield
  • • Charlotte (+31 Dec 1844)
    • Sophia (b. 1 Sep 1825, Milbrook, Hampshire)
    • Marguerite (7 Feb 1834)
  • Louis (19 Jan 1761 bap. 4 Feb Spitalfields Fr. Prot. - bur. 10 Feb 1761 St. Bartholomew)
  • Gerrard (bap. St Bartholomew 7 Feb 1761 - bur. St. Bartholomew4 Oct 1761)
  • Jean Pierre (b. 22 Dec 1765, London bap. Spitalfields Fr. Prot. -)
  • Etienne (25 Apr 1768 bap. Spitalfields Fr. Prot. - bur. 28 Feb 1770 St. Bartholomew)
  • Pierre (1 Jul 1771 bap. Fr. Chapel Savoy - bur. 23 Oct 1771 St . Bartholomew)
  • Andrew John (14 Nov 1778, Beckenham, Kent - bur. 7 Oct 1796, Newent, Glouc)
  • Amelie (b. 25 Jun 1764 bap. Spitalfields Fr. Prot. -)
  • Sophie Jeanne (b 29 Nov 1769 bap. Spitalfields Fr. Prot. - bur. 9 Jan 1774 St. Bartholomew)
  • Meriah (3 Sep 1775, Beckenham, Kent - bur. 1 Jan 1806 Newent, Glouc)
  • Elisabeth (29 Oct 1762 bap. Threadneedle St Fr. Prot. - d. 14 Feb 1790)
    ~ (12 Dec 1782) Rev. Edward Auriol Hay-Drummond
    • Henrietta Auriol Hay-Drummond (d. 1832)
    • Edward William Auriol Drummond-Hay (4 Apr 1785-Feb 1845)
• Benjamin (b. 5 Mar 1729/30) unm.
• Judith (b. 20 Sep 1719)
• Marianne (b. 31 May 1722)
• Emilie / Amelia (11 Jun 1732 London - )
  ~ (7 Sep 1765, Holy Trinity, Clapham) Jean-Emmanuel Castellard, baron de Bondeli
• Marianne (b. 31 Jul 1733)
• Susanne  Louise (25 Jun 1738)

French de Vismes genealogy: a sketchThe de Visme of Gouy

This sketch is based on the pages of Philippe Roelly's pages on Protestant genealogy in Picardy. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the lineage.  It seems plausible enough, but I would want to check in the original sources now that they are online: but Catholic registers for Gouy only start in 1692, and have lacunae (1712-1730s).

The account is substantially the same as the one that appeared in the Annuaire de la Noblesse de France 1883, p. 216, except that the Annuaire identifies Marin's brother Jean with the ancestor of the Abbeville branch above (Jean ~ Catherine Lebas).

• Jehan (c1570<1622), laboureur
  ~ Jeanne Thiery
  • Jean (ca1600-1659)
    receveur de la seigneurie
    ~ Anne Lucas
    • Marc
    • Marin
    • Isaac (b. 17 OCt 1624 Beaudéduit, Pr. bapt. 20 Oct 1624 - )
    • Jehan (b. 20 Sep 1629 Beaudéduit, Pr. bapt. 30 Sep 1629 Saouel - )
    • Étienne (b. 15 Mai 1633 Beaudéduit - )
  • David (1 Jul 1607 Gouy (Prot. bapt. Guignemicourt) - )
  • Marin (c1604 Gouy - )
    ~ Jacqueline de Haye (c1607 - )
    • Abraham (4 Apr 1627 Gouy - 4 Jan 1698 Canterbury, Kent)
      ~ Suzanne Leclerq
      • Anne (1649-)
      • André (1650-)
        ~ Judith Leroux
        • Judith (1701-)
        • André (1704-)
      • Jacques (1657-)
      • David (1652-)
      • Madeleine (1668-)
    • Isaac (1629-apr 1687)
      ~ Suzanne du Hamel
      • Madeleine (1655-)
      • Jean (1656-)
      • Pierre (1658-)
      • Isaac (Canterbury -)
        ~ Marie Frémaux
        • Marie (13 Oct 1689 Canterbury-)
        • Isaac (1692-)
        • Pierre (1698-)
        • Samuel (1702-)
        • Marie (1703-)
        • Judith (1709-)
      • Suzanne (Canterbury 1663)
      • Samuel (Canterbury 1665-)
    • Jean (4 Feb 1638 Gouy, bap. 14 Feb 1638 Salouel - 1685 Gouy )
      ~Judith Faquet
      • Madeleine (Oct 1655-)
        ~ André Leroy
      • Pierre (22 Dec 1657 Gouy - 1687)
        ~ 3 Nov 1676 Marie Leroy
        • André (1679-1726)
          ~ 1713 Marie Herondart
          • André (1725-92)
            ~ 1751 Marie Anne Malivoire
            • Jean (1760-1819)
              ~1790 Marie Thérèse Davaine (1767-1820)
              • Jonathan
                ~1826 Louise de Félice
                • postérité
            • André (1753-1829)
            • Philippe (1762-)
            • Jean-Louis (1766-1836)
              ~ 1793 Marie Cécile Elisabeth Bettembos
              • Philippe-Auguste (1801-69)
                • postérité
          • 5 filles
        • Pierre (ca 1685-1768)
          ~ 1717 (London) Madeleine Beaufils
        • Philippe (15 Sep 1687 Gouy - 26 Oct 1763)
          ~ 26 Jul 1716 Marianne de la Méjanelle
          • British de Vismes
            
      • Louis
        ~ 1700 (Canterbury) Suzanne de Fecques
      • Jeanne
        ~ 1686 Samuel Hérondart
      • Jean (c1662-ap1702)
        ~ 1684 Suzanne Bihet
        • Jean (1686-)
          ~ Anne Petit
          • Jean (1714-62)
            ~ Marie Marguerite Huillot
            • Valéry (1760-1844)
              ~ Marie Thérèse Pollet
              • Léon de Visme, baron d’Empire 1814
        • Anne (1690-)
        • Isabelle Elisabeth (1692-)
        • Louis (1695-)
        • Marie (1697-)
    • Pierre (b. 4 Jul 1643 Gouy - <1706)
      ~ Madeleine Gambier

The de Vismes of Amiens, Abbeville, and Paris

This account comes from La Famille de Vismes by Philippe and Nicole Baudard de Fontaine (Éditions de Villiers 2005). It covers the descent from Jean de Vismes and Annette Courchel.

Jean de Vismes
~ Annette Courchel

• Marin
  sergent royal au bailliage d'Amiens, maître-priseur de biens (prov. 27 fév 1582)
  ~ ?
  
  • Antoine
    clerc au greffe civil du bailliage d'Amiens
    ~ 1598 Jeanne Legrand
    
    • Marin (1604-)
      ~ 1631 Françoise Le Clerc
      • Antoine (1633-)
        bourgeois d'Amiens
        ~ Jeanne Pillaguet
        • posterity, unknown
          
    • Jean (+ <1670)
      bourgeois d'Amiens
      ~ Catherine Le Bas (+1670)
      • Jean (1629-94)
        honorable homme, échevin d'Abbeville
        ~ Anne-Françoise Le Marchand
        
        • Edouard (1677-)
          maître marchand de toiles
          • Edouard-Nicolas (1701-40)
          • Charles-Jean-Baptiste (1702-77)
            vérificateur des comptes des aides
            
        • Louis-Vulfran (1682-1767)
          notaire, échevin d'Abbeville
          ~ Marie-Anne de Ribeaucourt
          • François-Louis (1720-82)
            notaire, échevin d'Abbeville
            ~ 1744 Marie-Marguerite Cocu
            
            • François-Bernard (1746-)
              1774 Marguerite-Victoire de Quevaulliers (+1784)
              • Bernard-Alexandre (1779-1840)
                apothicaire à Versailles
                ~ 1810 Marie-Joséphine Auze
                • Jules-Alexandre (1811-93)
                  ~ Sophie-Ernestine de Vismes
                  • Ernest-Auguste (1850-78)
            • Charles-Henry (1751-1808)
              mercier, consul des marchands d'Abbeville
              ... posterity
              
            • Louis-François (1756-1832)
              ... posterity
              
      • Robert (1638-1711)
        bourgeois d'Amiens, échevin
        ~ Jeanne Timbergue (+1683)
        ~ Marguerite Fanet (+1694)
        
        • Alexandre-Joseph (1670--1721)
          trésorier de l'extraordinaire des guerees à Montmédy
          • Claude-Philippe (+1765
            directeur des Etapes
            
        • Pierre (1671-<1757)
          lieutenant de cavalerie, procureur du Roi à Amiens
          ~ 1711 Marie-Marguerite Masse
          • Pierre-Martin (1711-)
            fermier général 1761-77, secrétaire du Roi (charge annoblissante) 1757
            ~ Marie-Louise Legendre
            • Alphonse-Denis-Marie de Vismes de Saint-Alphone (1746-92)
              fermier général 1787-90
              
            • Anne-Pierre-Jacques de Vismes de Valgay (1745-1819)
              sous-directeut des fermes, directeur de l'Opéra 1778-79
              ~ Jeanne-Hyppolye Moiroud
            • Adélaïde Suzanne (1759-1835)
              ~ Jean Benjamin de Laborde (1734-94)
              ~ duc de Rohan-Chabot
              
        • Louis-Jean-Baptiste
        • Gabriel-Louis-Marion
        • Louis-Armand
          
  • Nicolas
    ~1600 Anne Pignon
  • Adrien
    ~ 1600 Claudine Lamoury
    • Adrien, bap. 1603, living in 1628 in Paris
    • ...

S.S.

[Paul Theroff]

thanks!

[Nick MacGregor-Sadolin]

Thank you both. Very interesting.

I did not know much about them the de Vismes (actually nearly nothing).

This is maybe a little offside, but Edward William Auriol Drummond-Hay (4 Apr 1785-Feb 1845) mentioned married Louisa Margaret Thomson, and together they at least two children, John and Elizabeth.

The son John Hay-Drummond (1816-1893) married a Danish woman, Annette Adelaide Christine Carstensen (1826-1908), and they got several children. See:

https://gw.geneanet.org/sadolinsnet_w?lang=en&p=elizabeth+de&n=vismes&type=fiche 

The women, Annette Adelaide Christine Carstensen, who was by Danish parents in Algeria, is among other a Sadolin descendants - like me. See:

https://gw.geneanet.org/sadolinsnet_w?lang=en&spouse=on&m=RL&p=jens+christensen&n=sadolin&l1=11&p1=annette+adelaide+christine&n1=carstensen&l2=14&p2=nikolaj+asgeir+macgregor&n2=sadolin&dag=on&image=off 

And her sister, Emiliè Birgitte Gjertrude Carstensen (1814-1907), married my 3 x great-grandfather Ulrich Christian Marcussen's older brother Marcus Pauli Marcussen (1798-1870). See:

https://gw.geneanet.org/sadolinsnet_w?lang=en&p=marcus+pauli&n=marcussen&type=fiche

Ulrich Christian Marcussen (1804-1880) married my 3 x great-grandmother, Agnes Marie Coleman MacGregor of Inneregny (1815-1883), and they  got among other children, my 2 x great-grandmother, Louise Suzette Emilie MacGregor Marcussen (1838-1906), who married my 2 x great-grandfather Ole Jørgen Sadolin (1816-1908), who was a Reverend. See:

https://gw.geneanet.org/sadolinsnet_w?lang=en&n=marcussen&oc=0&p=ulrich+christian&type=fiche 

After Ole Jørgen Sadolin died, my 1x great-grandfather Gunnar Asgeir Sadolin and his two older brothers and two younger brother bought their childhood home, Vallöby Vicarage (Valløby Præstegaard) in 1909, and renamed Vallöby old Vicarage (Valløby gamle Præstegaard near Koege (Køge) - south of Copenhagen.

We still own it - all five brothers today's descendants, and we use it for baptisms, communions, weddings, funerals, jubilees, birthdays, family gatherings and holidays.

We also have two maintenance weekends - one in the spring and one in the fall - since the house, which looks more or less the same inside since 1909, is from 1750.

There are many photos of both the Carstensen and Marcussen families - beside of course the Sadolin family - there. You can see the house here:

www.vgp.dk

Thanks again!

Best regards, Nick

Nick MacGregor Sadolin

https://gw.geneanet.org/sadolinsnet_w

My two last names, a dot in between them, and @ gmail.com

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[marquess]

Here is an interesting article on the family: https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/Vismes.htm

[Peter de Loriol Chandieu]

the de Vismes Huguenot family that settled in England was not a noble family, nor did it bring any form of title to England, except a spurious one - they were, however a passably rich family. I did a lot of work on this family as it married into my Auriol family, and, being a member of the Huguenot society of GB, was privy to many documents that showed it was not of noble heritage.

Peter de Loriol

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