Fwd: Serendipitous DNA Discovery Uncovers Rusty Petitjean's Hidden Native Ancestry

[Paul L LeBlanc]

Enjoy

mtDNA is womb to womb

The family name  changes every generation.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marie Rundquist <marieru...@gmail.com>
To: Paul L LeBlanc <ple...@aim.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2020 6:00 pm
Subject: Serendipitous DNA Discovery Uncovers Rusty Petitjean's Hidden Native Ancestry

The article,"Serendipitous DNA Discovery Uncovers Rusty Petitjean's Hidden Native Ancestry," has had a positive response in a number of social media networks.  

Deadra Doucet Bourke and I worked on this article together which was a lot of fun for both of us.  As co-admins of the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry DNA project, we have certainly had our share of surprises!

The Cajun / Louisiana group may like it. The story may also resonate with those in your genealogy groups who have Quebec lines. Here is the link.

https://dna-genealogy-history.com/travel-by-ancestry/serendipitous-dna-discovery-uncovers-rusty-petitjeans-hidden-native-ancestry

Please share if you like.

Thank you, Paul.

--Marie

[Paul L LeBlanc]

Eileen  is the "mother" of our only Acadian family specific group.

Anyone with Ancestors are welcome to join.

The last male PetitPas on St-P&M (France) died but there other family name descendents sitll on the Island

She does the current obits for the family and traces them back to Claude.

Eileen do you know about our DNA projects?

We did my Le Blanc "big Y"

-----Original Message-----
From: E Avery <e.a...@cox.net>
To: ourpetit...@googlegroups.com <ourpetit...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 6, 2020 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: Serendipitous DNA Discovery Uncovers Rusty Petitjean's Hidden Native Ancestry

Hi Paul,

Thank you for this post! I very much enjoyed reading through there excellent DNA detective work and seeing the results.

I’ve been trying to solve some mysteries through DNA testing, but haven’t had a breakthrough yet.

By the way, the 1st wife of Jean Francois Tisserant de Moncharvaux was my half-8g-aunt. 

My line descends from Marie Therese L’Archeveque’s father Jacques L’Archeveque dit Lapromenade & his 1st wife Marie Madeleine/Madeleine Guay/LeGuay [a file du roi from Paris]. And there is a connection to female line DNA.

> Jacques L’Archeveque dit Lapromenade & his 1st wife Marie Madeleine/Madeleine Guay/LeGuay

>> Philippe L’Archeveque dit Lapromenade & Marie Jeanne Marette Desmarais

>>> Paul Philipe L’Archeveque dit Lapromenade & Marie Angelique Leboeuf

>>>> Marie Joseph L’Archeveque dit Lapromenade & Louis Hardy

>>>>> Marie Angelique Hardy & 1st husband Guillaume/William Edge

>>>>>> Guillaume/William Edge [b. 1792 Montreal, d. 1857 Tracadie NS] & *Judith Benoit

>>>>>>> Angelique Edge & Isidore Deslauriers/Jacquet dit Deslauriers/Delorey

>>>>>>>> Elizabeth Deslauriers/Jacquet dit Deslauriers/Delorey [my g-grandmother; female line descendant of Anne-Marie, the Amerindian/Metis wife of Rene Rimbault]

*Judith Benoit’s lineage. Anne-Marie, the Amerindian/Metis wife of Rene Rimbault, was 3g-grandmother of Judith Benoit. And, of course there is a PETITPAS tie-in.

> Anne-Marie & Rene Rimbault

>> Francoise Rimbault & Charles Gautrot

>>> Anne Gautrot & Jean Breau

>>>> Marguerite Breau & Joseph Petitpas

>>>>> Euphrosine Petitpas & Casimir Benoit

>>>>>> Judith Benoit & Guillaume/William Edge

>>>>>>> Angelique Edge & Isidore Deslauriers/Jacquet dit Deslauriers/Delorey

>>>>>>>> Elizabeth Deslauriers/Jacquet dit Deslauriers/Delorey [my g-grandmother; female line descendant of Anne-Marie, the Amerindian/Metis wife of Rene Rimbault]

Best,

Eileen

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[Paul L LeBlanc]

Two St-P&M websites I have used the first but not the 2nd,

http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/recherche.php?territoire=SAINT-PIERRE-ET-MIQUELON

You can change territory to get the St-D, Canada (Ile-St-Jean), Louisiane,

http://anom.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/caomec2/osd.php?territoire=LOUISIANE&commune=NOUVELLE-ORLEANS&annee=1724&typeacte=AC_NA

2nd website

https://www.arche-musee-et-archives.net/fr/68/7-miquelon-langlade-1785.html

-----Original Message-----
From: George Bohlender <gbohl...@gmail.com>

"The last male PetitPas on St-P&M (France) died but there other family name descendents sitll on the Island"

I'd love to know more about any descendants of my Coste ancestors or my PEI Blanchard ancestors who may have stayed behind on the islands. Thanks! George

[Paul L LeBlanc]

Please answer her questions to all the groups.

"The Haplogroup, I-M23, suggests northern France, or adjacent", 

Is the family story of (Basque founded?) LaRochelle in that area? 

Where are other families with that code?

We need to remember that there was migration across Europe due to the different wars,

When did this code originate? from what code?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: E Avery <e.a...@cox.net>
To: Paul L LeBlanc <ple...@aim.com>; ourpetit...@googlegroups.com <ourpetit...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2020 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: Serendipitous DNA Discovery Uncovers Rusty Petitjean's Hidden Native Ancestry

Hi Paul,

What did you learn by doing the 'Big Y' test?

currently we have Y-DNA male-line PETITPAS/PETTIPAS/PITTS participants in the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry project [as well as other related projects] at FTDNA.

Our goal is to find the region/birthplace of Claude PETITPAS. The Haplogroup, I-M23, suggests northern France, or adjacent, but nothing definite yet. One of the major hurdles is that very few French men have had their DNA analyzed. My understanding is that the only way we will find a location is by matching tests with known origins. 

Or, alternatively, would the ‘Big Y’ define a fairly specific origin location?

Best,

Eileen

[Paul L LeBlanc]

My Last Post of this chain.

Changing subject to PetitPas I-M23 Basque?

[Paul L LeBlanc]

For years I have equated R1b with the Basque.

There are several other including I-M23.

Now we looking to see if there are Non-Basque I-M23.

LaRochelle would tie in.

=======================

What about the all of the R1b in the Basques?

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1370-What-about-the-all-of-the-R1b-in-the-Basques

What about the Basques? They have a lot of DF27, specifically the N-S people including M153. They also have L21. They also have I-M23. I've read a paper on the Basques that I thought was interesting. The author posts on another forum. I'm not a linguist so I don't understand the whole thing and I'm not sure if I understand creole versus not, but he makes the case that IE has impacted pre ...

http://www.jiesonline.com/issues/

http://independent.academia.edu/GianfrancoForni

[Marie Rundquist]

Hi, Eileen and Paul,

Paul LeBlanc's findings relative to his 111 Y chromosome and Big Y DNA tests are summarized here:

https://dna-genealogy-history.com/travel-by-ancestry/travel-by-ancestry-to-the-big-y-dna-signature-r-ft55255-for-the-lineage-of-acadian-ancestor-daniel-leblanc-b-ca-1626

Through Big Y DNA tests, Paul (1) validated his LeBlanc patrilineal line, traced to the same common ancestor, Daniel LeBlanc, of Old Acadie (b. in the early 1600s) as did other LeBlanc men with whom he matched and (2) established a specific signature (R-FT55255) pertaining to his patrilineal ancestry.  The LeBlanc Big Y DNA signature helps other men (and LeBlancs) in the project who want to verify their surname line -- and find their own branch on the Y DNA haplogroup tree. If you need to discern Whites who are actually LeBlancs of French origins from Whites who are simply Whites of English origins, the Big Y DNA test offers a way of doing so. It is interesting to note that Paul shares the same branch of the Y DNA tree, and signature SNP, with another LeBlanc man.  He is following up with his match to compare genealogies.  

Wouldn't it be great if a French man were to suddenly show up with the same Big Y DNA signature as Paul's?  Wouldn't it be great if he were a LeBlanc who could trace his original LeBlanc ancestry in ancient France?  Wow!  What a joy that would be for all concerned!  The I-M253 haplogroup is wide-ranging; men who belong to this haplogroups have common roots (in Western Europe, Northern Europe, Russia, and former Eastern Block countries) that date back thousands of years -- to ancient times.  By having the Big Y DNA test, Paul and his match have defined a new subclade of the I-M253 haplogroup, unique to LeBlanc men who trace back to Daniel, with common roots that date back 400 years, just about -- which is a big difference if you're in the world of genealogy!

The Big Y DNA tests help the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry Project (and its membership) reach the following goals:

1. Establishes a "signature" Y DNA test result for project members (these would be the men) who share the same Acadian (and allied) surnames and patrilineal (father-to-father) lines.

2. Differentiates men having the same surname but different patrilineal (father-to-father) ancestries from one another.  This happens with adoptees and products of NPEs (non-patrilineal events).  

3. Differentiates men who share a common surname (and line) with others who share the same surname -- but are related only through very distant ancestry -- dating back thousands of years (and not relevant to genealogy studies).

Example: We have had an especially challenging situation with one of our allied surname lines (Smith) whose descendants married into Acadian families in Louisiana.  The Smith men belonged to a very common I haplogroup subclade (I-M253 -- same as in your Petitpas / Pitts family) and when they tested at 111 markers, many STILL had matches whose surnames and earliest genetic connections were far apart from their own.  

The Smith men (probably like yours) needed the Big Y DNA test to make sure that those Smith men who matched at 111 markers still matched when the Big Y DNA test results were compared. Gary Smith, of Louisiana has established his line's signature SNP (I-A14738) through Big Y DNA testing.  He now uses this SNP to benchmark other Smith men to determine close kinship.  If a Smith man's Big Y DNA test result come back positive for the "Smith signature SNP (I-A14738) then Gary knows the man is kin, and a direct descendant of common ancestor Charles Smith born in Virginia, in 1737. 

4.  Creates an heirloom DNA product that may be passed down from father to father for generations to come.  Our Acadian Amerindian Ancestry DNA project established a "Wall of Big Y DNA Markers" to illuminate our unique place in history and culture and illustrate our Acadian legacy -- expressed through distinctive Big Y SNPs identified for each surname line.  When you read Paul's article, you can take a look at each name on our Wall -- While I find many of our heralded Acadian names represented by the men who have had Big Y DNA tests and and contributed their signature SNPs, I don't see our Petitpas / Pitts line represented (yet!).

5.  Distinguishes among Acadian surname lineages with an Acadian - European root ancestor versus an Acadian surname lineage with an Amerindian root ancestor by way of Big Y DNA signatures.  If you walk into our project and know little else about your background other than your surname, after a Big Y DNA test, we can tell you if the We have a few examples of surnames that could have European OR Native American roots.  Savoy / Savoie, Doucet / Doucette, and Broome come to mind.

I hope this has been helpful.

Thanks.

--Marie Rundquist

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[Marie Rundquist]

Hi, Eileen and Paul,

I've edited and added to my response:

Paul LeBlanc's findings relative to his 111 Y chromosome and Big Y DNA tests are summarized here:

https://dna-genealogy-history.com/travel-by-ancestry/travel-by-ancestry-to-the-big-y-dna-signature-r-ft55255-for-the-lineage-of-acadian-ancestor-daniel-leblanc-b-ca-1626

Through Big Y DNA tests, Paul (1) validated his LeBlanc patrilineal line, traced to the same common ancestor, Daniel LeBlanc, of Old Acadie (b. in the early 1600s) as did other LeBlanc men with whom he matched and (2) established a specific signature (R-FT55255) pertaining to his patrilineal ancestry.  The LeBlanc Big Y DNA signature helps other men (and LeBlancs) in the project who want to verify their surname line -- and find their own branch on the Y DNA haplogroup tree. If you need to discern Whites who are actually LeBlancs of French origins from Whites who are simply Whites of English origins, the Big Y DNA test offers a way of doing so. It is interesting to note that Paul shares the same branch of the Y DNA tree, and signature SNP, with another LeBlanc man.  He is following up with his match to compare genealogies.  

Wouldn't it be great if a French man were to suddenly show up with the same Big Y DNA signature as Paul's?  Wouldn't it be great if he were a LeBlanc who could trace his original LeBlanc ancestry in ancient France?  Wow!  What a joy that would be for all concerned!  The I-M253 haplogroup is wide-ranging; men who belong to this haplogroups have common roots (in Western Europe, Northern Europe, Russia, and former Eastern Block countries) that date back thousands of years -- to ancient times.  By having the Big Y DNA test, Paul and his match have defined a new subclade of the I-M253 haplogroup, unique to LeBlanc men who trace back to Daniel, with common roots that date back 400 years, just about -- which is a big difference if you're in the world of genealogy!

The Big Y DNA tests help the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry Project (and its membership) reach the following goals:

1. Establishes a "signature" Y DNA test result for project members (these would be the men) who share the same Acadian (and allied) surnames and patrilineal (father-to-father) lines.

2. Differentiates men having the same surname but different patrilineal (father-to-father) ancestries from one another.  This happens with adoptees and products of NPEs (non-patrilineal events).  

3. Differentiates men who share a common surname (and line) with others who share the same surname -- but are related only through very distant ancestry -- dating back thousands of years (and not relevant to genealogy studies).

Example: We have had an especially challenging situation with one of our allied surname lines (Smith) whose descendants married into Acadian families in Louisiana.  The Smith men belonged to a very common I haplogroup subclade (I-M253 -- same as in your Petitpas / Pitts family) and when they tested at 111 markers, many STILL had matches whose surnames and earliest genetic connections were far apart from their own.  

The Smith men (probably like yours) needed the Big Y DNA test to make sure that those Smith men who matched at 111 markers still matched when the Big Y DNA test results were compared. Gary Smith, of Louisiana has established his line's signature SNP (I-A14738) through Big Y DNA testing.  He now uses this SNP to benchmark other Smith men to determine close kinship.  If a Smith man's Big Y DNA test result come back positive for the "Smith signature SNP (I-A14738) then Gary knows the man is kin, and a direct descendant of common ancestor Charles Smith born in Virginia, in 1737. 

Note about the I-M253 haplogroup: We have other I-M253 members in the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry project.  A man whose ancestry traces from Quebec, Canada belongs to the group; another descendant who belongs to the I-M253 haplogroup tracess his earliest ancestry to Paris, France, through his patrilineal ancestor, Jacques Bonnevie.  Roberta Estes wrote about this line: https://dna-explained.com/2014/06/29/jacques-dit-beaumont-de-bonnevie-acadian-from-paris-52-ancestors-26/

Note about Basques: Two men of known Acadian Basque lines in the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry DNA project (Bastarache and D'etcheverry) belong to R1b Y DNA haplogroup subclades and are not members of the I-M253 haplogroup.

4.  Creates an heirloom DNA product that may be passed down from father to father for generations to come.  Our Acadian Amerindian Ancestry DNA project established a "Wall of Big Y DNA Markers" to illuminate our unique place in history and culture and illustrate our Acadian legacy -- expressed through distinctive Big Y SNPs identified for each surname line.  When you read Paul's article, you can take a look at each name on our Wall -- While I find many of our heralded Acadian names represented by the men who have had Big Y DNA tests and and contributed their signature SNPs, I don't see our Petitpas / Pitts line represented (yet!).

5.  Distinguishes among Acadian surname lineages with an Acadian - European root ancestor versus an Acadian surname lineage with an Amerindian root ancestor by way of Big Y DNA signatures.  If you walk into our project and know little else about your background other than your surname, after a Big Y DNA test, we can tell you if you are of European or Native ancestry through your father's patrilineal lines. We have a few examples of surnames that could have European OR Native American roots.  Savoy / Savoie, Doucet / Doucette, and Broome come to mind.

I hope this has been helpful.

Thanks.

--Marie Rundquist

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 3:49 PM 'Paul L LeBlanc' via Our Acadian Roots <ouracad...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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[Marie Rundquist]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Marie Rundquist <marieru...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Petitpas - Re: [Our Acadian Roots] Serendipitous DNA Discovery Uncovers Rusty Petitjean's Hidden Native Ancestry
To: E Avery <e.a...@cox.net>

You are welcome.  I edited my post (my last sentence didn't appear in the email as I had thought I had typed) and resent earlier.  

In that revision, I included additional info about the I haplogroup subclade that your Petitpas men belong to (see the attached image - have verified that your men belong to the I-M253 haplogroup).  We do have participants with verified French lineage with this haplogroup.  We have a man from France who belongs to the I-M253  haplogroup -- but he descends from a man from Quebec so that would not be a direct French lineage.  I was asked about our Basque lines --  and we don't find I-M253 Y DNA haplogroups among D'Etcheverry and Bastarache men.  I don't see the I-M253 haplogroup as having Basque (or "French Basque") origins.

Were more French European men to have Y DNA tests, we would likely find men of this same haplogroup in England just as we do in France because of the Norman invasion bringing so many French lines into England at the time of William the Conqueror. It is a large, wide-ranging, European haplogroup and the Big Y DNA test has been helpful to men in more than one project in establishing new branches.  We may have men of originally French origins participating in the Quebec DNA projects.  I believe the Gosselin surname line (of Gabriel Gosselin, originally of Normandie, France) falls into that category.  We have one man in our project who has a Gosselin line out of Quebec who belongs to the I-M253 haplogroup.

Many times we've had members of the project group together to sponsor a Big Y DNA test for a man of a specific surname line (that's the only way we've been able to afford them).  Once we establish the SNP for the surname line, through Big Y testing, we work with Family Tree DNA to make that SNP available for use in additional tests.  We've done this for several prominent lines where there were many men interested in having the Y DNA tests and then qualifying their specific surname's "signature" SNP.   Back to your original questions, here is the info sent in an earlier reply:

 We have had an especially challenging situation with one of our allied surname lines (Smith) whose descendants married into Acadian families in Louisiana.  The Smith men belonged to a very common I haplogroup subclade (I-M253 -- same as in your Petitpas / Pitts family) and when they tested at 111 markers, many STILL had matches whose surnames and earliest genetic connections were far apart from their own.  

The Smith men (probably like yours) needed the Big Y DNA test to make sure that those Smith men who matched at 111 markers still matched when the Big Y DNA test results were compared. Gary Smith, of Louisiana has established his line's signature SNP (I-A14738) through Big Y DNA testing.  He now uses this SNP to benchmark other Smith men to determine close kinship.  If a Smith man's Big Y DNA test result come back positive for the "Smith signature SNP (I-A14738) then Gary knows the man is kin, and a direct descendant of common ancestor Charles Smith born in Virginia, in 1737. 

Note about the I-M253 haplogroup having French origins: We have other I-M253 members in the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry project.  A man whose ancestry traces from Quebec, Canada (through a Gosselin line) belongs to the group; another descendant who belongs to the I-M253 haplogroup traces his earliest ancestry to Paris, France, through his patrilineal ancestor, Jacques Bonnevie.  Roberta Estes wrote about this line: https://dna-explained.com/2014/06/29/jacques-dit-beaumont-de-bonnevie-acadian-from-paris-52-ancestors-26/

Note about Basques: Two men of known Acadian Basque lines in the Acadian Amerindian Ancestry DNA project (Bastarache and D'etcheverry) belong to R1b Y DNA haplogroup subclades and are not members of the I-M253 haplogroup.

--Marie

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 1:35 PM E Avery <e.a...@cox.net> wrote:

Hi Marie,

Thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply!

As far as origins, here is an excerpt from FTDNA regarding the PETITPAS Haplogroup.

"Haplogroup I dates to 23,000 years ago, or older. The I-M253 lineage likely has its roots in northern France. Today it is found most frequently within Viking/Scandinavian populations in northwest Europe and has since spread down into Central and Eastern Europe, where it is found at low frequencies. Haplogroup I represents one of the first peoples in Europe."

We are not trying to prove the genetic relationships between our PETITPAS male Y-DNA participants. We have good documentation of their lineages. Instead, we are hoping to narrow down the home origin of the common ancestor Claude PETITPAS.

One note you mentioned that might help us, is to look at other Acadian Y-DNA that has downstream results from I-M23. We could then test for specific downstream markers, which is much less expensive than Big Y testing. We do not have funds for a Big Y.

Do you have any proven Acadian Y-DNA on your project that has downstream marker results from I-M23?

Best,

Eileen