Time to Update the Substitution Policy?
258 views
Skip to first unread message
AT
May 16, 2021, 11:20:04 PM5/16/21
to othsl
As a long-time referee (and player) in OTHSL, I'm at a loss to understand why the league clings to it's restrictive substitution rule(s) and instead doesn't adopt the FIFA policy of allowing substitutions at ANY stoppage (with the referee's consent, of course).
I go from officiating a game where a U11 player can sub in after the whistle is blown for an offside infraction (either team), or foul (either team), or corner kick (either team), or slow-developing throw-in favor of the opposing team, etc etc, to a game where grown men are forced to wait on the sideline for as long as several minutes -- I've seen upward of 8 or 9 -- because the ball doesn't go out of play under the "right" conditions.
If it is a question of avoiding stalling the game by a team in the lead, a good referee can easily handle that. Just as a good referee is also going to recognize when a team wants to do a quick restart, whether throw-in or kick, and not beckon waiting subs onto the field (such as might be the the case under current limited sub opportunity rules).
Its high time to adjust to the modern game.
Jeremy Mordkoff
May 17, 2021, 8:39:49 AM5/17/21
to ot...@googlegroups.com
This is the first time I’ve heard a complaint about this rule in over 20 years.
FIFA allows 3 subs per team, so the number of interruptions per game is small and never used tactically. With unlimited subs, it can be a tactical weapon, e.g, always sub at least one player on every goal kick by the opposing team.
How would you write the rule?
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "othsl" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to othsl+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/othsl/cfda1a08-a047-4c37-ba76-0efc8106a059n%40googlegroups.com.
Glenn Harper
May 17, 2021, 9:25:37 AM5/17/21
to ot...@googlegroups.com
I think this misses the point of the initial argument.
The idea is that the ref has the option to allow subs on any stoppage. It is always at the ref's discretion. That is not changing.
If a team is abusing this (a sub on every goal kick for example) the ref does not have to allow the substitution.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/othsl/CANkJ7k63m-OndEP1HTjOxfz%2BRi9pzEszAoVDqY6GoCObyepF2Q%40mail.gmail.com.
Luis Ramirez
May 17, 2021, 1:16:35 PM5/17/21
to ot...@googlegroups.com
A good referee could handle every situation. Unfortunately, we have very few really good referees.
Keep the number of interruptions low, by rule.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 17, 2021, at 9:25 AM, Glenn Harper <glenna...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/othsl/CAC9uv9Fa75jzPsjgc%2BhKB-yktATYjsXA2UChh_EE0qb%3DBUnaLw%40mail.gmail.com.
Joe Stewart
May 18, 2021, 9:10:40 AM5/18/21
to othsl
The women did away with, why can't the men? EMWSL has done away with this restriction:
7.09. Substitutions. Substitutions will follow IFAB rules, except that a player may be substituted and then may return to the match any number of times.
As a long-time player (until the arthritis kicked in due to the ACL injury from soccer) and a 5-year OTHSL referee, I too think OTHSL should adopt IFAB Laws of the Game and severely limit changes imposed through Rules of Competition. Every OTHSL game I've got men on the sideline getting frustrated about waiting to sub and not understanding why. While my response, "Your rules of competition blah blah blah" is correct, it does nothing to reduce their temperature....
NEOTHSL Reports
May 18, 2021, 2:21:24 PM5/18/21
to othsl
AT, the notion of unlimited subs at any stoppage in play is a laudable goal. There have been a few scenarios where games have been played under those rules, by mutual consent of the teams and referee, due to hot weather.
Most youth soccer matches are played with a three-person referee crew. The identification, organization, and transition of substitutes is enhanced by the presence of the ARs. NEOTHSL matches are ref'd solo (until playoffs). I'm not sure that our players are disciplined enough to handle subs at any stoppage.
As it is we frequently get players running onto the field at a sub opportunity without waiting for permission from the referee. Are we ready for the increase in cards for "entering w/o permission"? Too often players do *not* go to mid-field, but simply holler "sub" from their bench area; conversely, players on the field won't signal for a sub until the ball goes out of play, both of which add unnecessary delays.
I like Joe's point that increased sub opportunities provide a tool for managing the temperature of a match (not to mention additional opportunities for a mask break). However, it also provides additional opportunities for gamesmanship that may raise tempers by delaying a free kick or corner kick with the cry of "sub". If the ref allows it, the team looking to restart quickly is aggrieved; if the ref denies the sub, then that team is upset (rightly or wrongly has no bearing). Certainly a topic that we should address at the referee recertification clinics.
In the end, the purpose of our league is to provide a venue for adult amateur soccer. I am sure that we will discuss this at the next BOD meeting. A rule proposal may also be presented at the AGM (September?) by anybody. If it's what the players/teams want, we will make it happen.
See you 'round the pitch,
-nat (reports coordinator and O40D6 and O40NH division director - and referee)
On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 11:20:04 PM UTC-4 AT wrote:
Brad Hickey
May 18, 2021, 5:38:40 PM5/18/21
to ot...@googlegroups.com
Allowing unlimited substitutions on every stoppage while relying solely on one person's discretion is a recipe for confrontation. In addition to what Nat mentioned, how many players do you see going off the nearest part of the field vs. taking 30-60 seconds to slowly trudge to midfield? Now imagine that happening every 3 minutes due to one ref's wide interpretation. Consistency and simplicity of the rules should be the expectation for all games, not one person's discretion on any given morning.
That said, I think the league could consider adopting differing rules based on the age group as there are likely different needs for frequency of substitutions in the O62 group than there are in the O30 group.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "othsl" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to othsl+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/othsl/b6700211-650f-485d-ac65-1c2978bb6bf9n%40googlegroups.com.
John Carver
Feb 17, 2023, 7:59:57 PM2/17/23
to othsl
Can we at least agree to relax the league's restrictive substitution rules for the O62 and O68 age groups in order to allow substitutions on any stoppage of play with permission from the referee? Perhaps this could be done this Spring on a trial basis.
As has been noted by others in this thread, the referee can delay an otherwise legal substitution in order to allow a quick restart. In fact, this should be being done now. The referee can replace time lost due to substitutions, especially excessive substitutions.
In fact, this should be being done now. If obvious timewasting tactics persist, the referee should first warn and then, if necessary, issue a caution for unsporting behavior.
In fact, this should be being done now.
Considering the hundreds of decisions I must make as a referee during a match, many of which are subjective and potentially confrontational, managing substitutions is the least of my worries!
Regards,
John
NEOTHSL Reports
Feb 19, 2023, 2:28:16 PM2/19/23
to othsl
Thanks for bringing this back up, John. I've started talking it up at the BOD level. I will update y'all after our 3/20 meeting.
TBH, if a player or team really wants a sub, someone drops to the ground and claims injury. It's embarrassing and probably wastes more time.
After WC'22, I cannot wait to see how teams react when a referee adds 12-15 minutes to a half to account for the time wasting. 8^}
------
-nat
On Friday, February 17, 2023 at 7:59:57 PM UTC-5 wrote:
Can we at least agree to relax the league's restrictive substitution rules for the O62 and O68 age groups in order to allow substitutions on any stoppage of play with permission from the referee? Perhaps this could be done this Spring on a trial basis.
As has been noted by others in this thread, the referee can delay an otherwise legal substitution in order to allow a quick restart. In fact, this should be being done now. The referee can replace time lost due to substitutions, especially excessive substitutions.
In fact, this should be being done now. If obvious timewasting tactics persist, the referee should first warn and then, if necessary, issue a caution for unsporting behavior.
In fact, this should be being done now.
Considering the hundreds of decisions I must make as a referee during a match, many of which are subjective and potentially confrontational, managing substitutions is the least of my worries!
Regards,
John
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:38:40 PM UTC-4 Brad Hickey wrote:
Allowing unlimited substitutions on every stoppage while relying solely on one person's discretion is a recipe for confrontation. In addition to what Nat mentioned, how many players do you see going off the nearest part of the field vs. taking 30-60 seconds to slowly trudge to midfield? Now imagine that happening every 3 minutes due to one ref's wide interpretation. Consistency and simplicity of the rules should be the expectation for all games, not one person's discretion on any given morning.
That said, I think the league could consider adopting differing rules based on the age group as there are likely different needs for frequency of substitutions in the O62 group than there are in the O30 group.
On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 2:21 PM NEOTHSL Reports wrote:
AT, the notion of unlimited subs at any stoppage in play is a laudable goal. There have been a few scenarios where games have been played under those rules, by mutual consent of the teams and referee, due to hot weather.
-- Most youth soccer matches are played with a three-person referee crew. The identification, organization, and transition of substitutes is enhanced by the presence of the ARs. NEOTHSL matches are ref'd solo (until playoffs). I'm not sure that our players are disciplined enough to handle subs at any stoppage.
As it is we frequently get players running onto the field at a sub opportunity without waiting for permission from the referee. Are we ready for the increase in cards for "entering w/o permission"? Too often players do *not* go to mid-field, but simply holler "sub" from their bench area; conversely, players on the field won't signal for a sub until the ball goes out of play, both of which add unnecessary delays.
I like Joe's point that increased sub opportunities provide a tool for managing the temperature of a match (not to mention additional opportunities for a mask break). However, it also provides additional opportunities for gamesmanship that may raise tempers by delaying a free kick or corner kick with the cry of "sub". If the ref allows it, the team looking to restart quickly is aggrieved; if the ref denies the sub, then that team is upset (rightly or wrongly has no bearing). Certainly a topic that we should address at the referee recertification clinics.
In the end, the purpose of our league is to provide a venue for adult amateur soccer. I am sure that we will discuss this at the next BOD meeting. A rule proposal may also be presented at the AGM (September?) by anybody. If it's what the players/teams want, we will make it happen.
See you 'round the pitch,
-nat (reports coordinator and O40D6 and O40NH division director - and referee)
On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 11:20:04 PM UTC-4 AT wrote:
As a long-time referee (and player) in OTHSL, I'm at a loss to understand why the league clings to it's restrictive substitution rule(s) and instead doesn't adopt the FIFA policy of allowing substitutions at ANY stoppage (with the referee's consent, of course).I go from officiating a game where a U11 player can sub in after the whistle is blown for an offside infraction (either team), or foul (either team), or corner kick (either team), or slow-developing throw-in favor of the opposing team, etc etc, to a game where grown men are forced to wait on the sideline for as long as several minutes -- I've seen upward of 8 or 9 -- because the ball doesn't go out of play under the "right" conditions.
If it is a question of avoiding stalling the game by a team in the lead, a good referee can easily handle that. Just as a good referee is also going to recognize when a team wants to do a quick restart, whether throw-in or kick, and not beckon waiting subs onto the field (such as might be the the case under current limited sub opportunity rules).
Its high time to adjust to the modern game.
Brad Hickey
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages