ops4j domain names

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Niclas Hedhman

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Feb 19, 2020, 6:13:38 AM2/19/20
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Everyone,
In a few months time (June), the OPS4J domain names are up for renewal. And I have been paying for those for 15 years now, and since I no longer participate in OPS4J I would like to transfer the domain names. But where to??

Ideally a foundation that would be Ok to take it over, otherwise to a trusted community member.

Ideas are welcome, and should be discussed. I have no opinion and will simply follow what you all can agree on.



Cheers
Niclas

Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Feb 19, 2020, 6:37:40 AM2/19/20
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Hi Niclas 

First of all, thanks a lot for all what you did (and still doing 😀). 

I’m ready to take the hand for the domain and finance them. 

Thoughts ?

Regards 
JB

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Toni Menzel

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Feb 19, 2020, 7:01:14 AM2/19/20
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TL/TR:
I'd be also happy to pay for ops4j.org (the one that is actively used atm).

Long version:
Since this is coming up now, there is a general question were to go with OPS4J in general.

It predated github and probably was back then the easiest way to get hands dirty in a non-trivial java based OSS community where trust was default. Think about it, back then everyone could get write access to the subversion repo and start hacking on new or existing projects. Including admin access to jira and whatever else was existing back then. Pax URL, Pax Runner, Pax Exam, Pax Construct etc. all got initiated by individuals without asking for permission. I mean.. thats Names like Pax Tinybundles got to life.. but oh well.

Now, why am I writing this: there is - at least for pax url, web and exam - a huge user base that seems to be quite healthy. Even if there is just that "ops4j" name of the github organization now, no website etc.

So, question: what are the options? Let me just drop them here that come to my mind (ordered from easy-as-py to more complicated options):
  • keep things as is, find individual sponsors like I do with the Build Server (who uses that still by the way??), and JB or me (this means I'd be also fine to pay for the org domain that is in active use,too btw). It would be good to have two different companies or legal entities backing this anyway.
  • Modernize OPS4J a bit. Get it a landing page at least and a clear who is behind all this, who pays etc. Maybe look at Github Sponsoring to spread costs across user base - avoid single entity control.
  • Maybe look into making it a proper foundation or at least an entity that makes the work here eligible for future donations. I am not sure of this is worth it. But i feel Open Source != Open Governance.
  • Retire non active projects and donate active projects to apache. Probably difficult because of Intellectual Property)
wdyt?
Toni


Toni Menzel | rebaze.com | growing developer culture



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Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Feb 19, 2020, 7:15:21 AM2/19/20
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Hi Toni

Thanks for bringing this discussion forward. 

I agree with your statements. Let me get back with comments and proposals. 

Regards
JB

Grzegorz Grzybek

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Feb 19, 2020, 7:21:55 AM2/19/20
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Hello

While being happy contributor of pax-logging, pax-web, pax-jdbc/jms/transx, pax-url, pax-cdi, I never wonder about how it works. I've never seen working https://ops4j.org site (it's now "it works!" page) and I assumed Atlassian is providing us (how?) JIRA + Confluence.

I don't know what to suggest, except that I'll welcome any improvement ;)

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

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Achim Nierbeck

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Feb 19, 2020, 9:25:45 AM2/19/20
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Hi,

I fully agree on Toni ...
actually for PaxWeb it had always been an issue of not beeing an apache project.
Therefore I'd go with option 4, the how-to would be needed to be worked out.

regards, Achim


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--

Apache Member
Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer & Project Lead
blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
Co-Author of Apache Karaf Cookbook <http://bit.ly/1ps9rkS>

Oliver Lietz

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Feb 19, 2020, 5:27:12 PM2/19/20
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 3:25:31 PM CET 'Achim Nierbeck' via OPS4J
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I fully agree on Toni ...
> actually for PaxWeb it had always been an issue of not beeing an apache
> project.
> Therefore I'd go with option 4, the how-to would be needed to be worked
> out.

Really? But we already have a HTTP and Log service at Felix (and another one
at Sling) and I guess it means a lot of paper work related to IP and
donations.

O.

> regards, Achim
>
>
> Am Mi., 19. Feb. 2020 um 13:21 Uhr schrieb Grzegorz Grzybek <
>
> gr.gr...@gmail.com>:
> > Hello
> >
> > While being happy contributor of pax-logging, pax-web,
> > pax-jdbc/jms/transx, pax-url, pax-cdi, I never wonder about how it works.
> > I've never seen working https://ops4j.org site (it's now "it works!"
> > page) and I assumed Atlassian is providing us (how?) JIRA + Confluence.
> >
> > I don't know what to suggest, except that I'll welcome any improvement ;)
> >
> > regards
> > Grzegorz Grzybek
> >
> > śr., 19 lut 2020 o 13:15 Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> >
> > jeanbapti...@gmail.com> napisał(a):
> >> Hi Toni
> >>
> >> Thanks for bringing this discussion forward.
> >>
> >> I agree with your statements. Let me get back with comments and
> >> proposals.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> JB
> >>
> >> Le mer. 19 févr. 2020 à 13:01, Toni Menzel <toni....@rebaze.com> a
> >>
> >> écrit :
> >>> *TL/TR:*
> >>> I'd be also happy to pay for ops4j.org (the one that is actively used
> >>> atm).
> >>>
> >>> *Long version:*
> >>> Since this is coming up now, there is a general question were to go with
> >>> OPS4J in general.
> >>>
> >>> It predated github and probably was back then the easiest way to get
> >>> hands dirty in a non-trivial java based OSS community where trust was
> >>> default. Think about it, back then everyone could get write access to
> >>> the
> >>> subversion repo and start hacking on new or existing projects. Including
> >>> admin access to jira and whatever else was existing back then. Pax URL,
> >>> Pax
> >>> Runner, Pax Exam, Pax Construct etc. all got initiated by individuals
> >>> without asking for permission. I mean.. thats Names like Pax Tinybundles
> >>> got to life.. but oh well.
> >>>
> >>> Now, why am I writing this: there is - at least for pax url, web and
> >>> exam - a huge user base that seems to be quite healthy. Even if there is
> >>> just that "ops4j" name of the github organization now, no website etc.
> >>>
> >>> So, question: what are the options? Let me just drop them here that come
> >>>
> >>> to my mind (ordered from easy-as-py to more complicated options):
> >>> - keep things as is, find individual sponsors like I do with the
> >>> Build Server (who uses that still by the way??), and JB or me (this
> >>> means
> >>> I'd be also fine to pay for the org domain that is in active use,too
> >>> btw).
> >>> It would be good to have two different companies or legal entities
> >>> backing
> >>> this anyway.
> >>> - Modernize OPS4J a bit. Get it a landing page at least and a clear
> >>> who is behind all this, who pays etc. Maybe look at Github Sponsoring
> >>> to
> >>> spread costs across user base - avoid single entity control.
> >>> - Maybe look into making it a proper foundation or at least an
> >>> entity that makes the work here eligible for future donations. I am
> >>> not
> >>> sure of this is worth it. But i feel Open Source != Open Governance.
> >>> - Retire non active projects and donate active projects to apache.
> >>> Probably difficult because of Intellectual Property)
> >>>
> >>> wdyt?
> >>> Toni
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Toni Menzel | rebaze.com <https://www.rebaze.com> | growing developer
> >>> culture*
[...]



Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Feb 20, 2020, 1:17:26 AM2/20/20
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Hi,

If option 4 is interesting, we have to remember:

1. First, in which Apache umbrella project. I don't think Felix is a good match as we might have some overlap with existing projects (felix http, ...). Maybe Karaf ?
2. We need to transfer IP and "PMC" set and ask in the Apache project community with a formal vote.
3. We will have to follow Apache process, especially for releases (meaning at least 3 days vote, 3 binding votes, etc), extending Apache pom, etc.

So, IMHO, we have really two options:

1. We keep OPS4J community, do a cleanup (announcing non active projects)
2. We move active Pax projects to Apache (obviously my preference would be Karaf).

Thoughts ?

Regards
JB

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Christoph Läubrich

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Feb 20, 2020, 1:58:06 AM2/20/20
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I always enjoyed the ease of contribution via github with minimal
effort. While for apache-projects has always felt like a mess because of
different hurdles.

So I would defiantly vote for staying with github, dropping JIRA in
favour of github issues (they improved the issue/project handling a lot)
to centralize development to one place.

Github even offers building "Actions" now so maybe this is also an
alternative for custom build-server.

Am 20.02.20 um 07:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Onofré:
> Hi,
>
> If option 4 is interesting, we have to remember:
>
> 1. First, in which Apache umbrella project. I don't think Felix is a
> good match as we might have some overlap with existing projects (felix
> http, ...). Maybe Karaf ?
> 2. We need to transfer IP and "PMC" set and ask in the Apache project
> community with a formal vote.
> 3. We will have to follow Apache process, especially for releases
> (meaning at least 3 days vote, 3 binding votes, etc), extending Apache
> pom, etc.
>
> So, IMHO, we have really two options:
>
> 1. We keep OPS4J community, do a cleanup (announcing non active projects)
> 2. We move active Pax projects to Apache (obviously my preference would
> be Karaf).
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:01 PM Toni Menzel <toni....@rebaze.com
> <mailto:toni....@rebaze.com>> wrote:
>
> *TL/TR:*
> I'd be also happy to pay for ops4j.org <http://ops4j.org> (the one
> that is actively used atm).
>
> *Long version:*
> Since this is coming up now, there is a general question were to go
> with OPS4J in general.
>
> It predated github and probably was back then the easiest way to get
> hands dirty in a non-trivial java based OSS community where trust
> was default. Think about it, back then everyone could get write
> access to the subversion repo and start hacking on new or existing
> projects. Including admin access to jira and whatever else was
> existing back then. Pax URL, Pax Runner, Pax Exam, Pax Construct
> etc. all got initiated by individuals without asking for permission.
> I mean.. thats Names like Pax Tinybundles got to life.. but oh well.
>
> Now, why am I writing this: there is - at least for pax url, web and
> exam - a huge user base that seems to be quite healthy. Even if
> there is just that "ops4j" name of the github organization now, no
> website etc.
>
> So, question: what are the options? Let me just drop them here that
> come to my mind (ordered from easy-as-py to more complicated options):
>
> * keep things as is, find individual sponsors like I do with the
> Build Server (who uses that still by the way??), and JB or me
> (this means I'd be also fine to pay for the org domain that is
> in active use,too btw). It would be good to have two different
> companies or legal entities backing this anyway.
> * Modernize OPS4J a bit. Get it a landing page at least and a
> clear who is behind all this, who pays etc. Maybe look at Github
> Sponsoring to spread costs across user base - avoid single
> entity control.
> * Maybe look into making it a proper foundation or at least an
> entity that makes the work here eligible for future donations. I
> am not sure of this is worth it. But i feel Open Source != Open
> Governance.
> * Retire non active projects and donate active projects to apache.
> Probably difficult because of Intellectual Property)
>
> wdyt?
> Toni
>
>
> *Toni Menzel | rebaze.com <https://www.rebaze.com> | growing
> developer culture
>
> *
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:37 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> <jeanbapti...@gmail.com
> <mailto:jeanbapti...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Niclas
>
> First of all, thanks a lot for all what you did (and still doing
> 😀).
>
> I’m ready to take the hand for the domain and finance them.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> Le mer. 19 févr. 2020 à 12:13, Niclas Hedhman
> <nic...@hedhman.org <mailto:nic...@hedhman.org>> a écrit :
>
> Everyone,
> In a few months time (June), the OPS4J domain names are up
> for renewal. And I have been paying for those for 15 years
> now, and since I no longer participate in OPS4J I would like
> to transfer the domain names. But where to??
>
> Ideally a foundation that would be Ok to take it over,
> otherwise to a trusted community member.
>
> Ideas are welcome, and should be discussed. I have no
> opinion and will simply follow what you all can agree on.
>
> ops4j.org <http://ops4j.org>
> ops4j.net <http://ops4j.net>
> ops4j.com <http://ops4j.com>
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
>
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Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Feb 20, 2020, 2:06:57 AM2/20/20
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That's true, but I think that's also a drawback.

The leak of governance and the fact we don't have any staging on releases could be seen as an issue.

That's why it could be interesting to have this under the "Karaf Umbrella".

Regards
JB

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Christoph Läubrich

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Feb 20, 2020, 3:22:34 AM2/20/20
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This does not mean that it would only be possible under any
"governance-umbrella", but I also understand that Karaf is the main
consumer and/or driver of current development.

Thus I'm not completely against it (and would not have any obligations
to give any organization the required permission for any contribution I
have made to pax projects), my only fear is that this process will even
be going further so things are getting more and more "karaf-like" and
other requirements are not taken into account anymore.

So whatever is decided, I have really enjoyed all the years even though
contributions from my side are not always constant over time it was the
entry-point for me to getting started with OpenSource contributions.

Am 20.02.20 um 08:06 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Onofré:
> > <mailto:toni....@rebaze.com <mailto:toni....@rebaze.com>>>
> >     *Toni Menzel | rebaze.com <http://rebaze.com>
> <https://www.rebaze.com> | growing
> >     developer culture
> >
> >     *
> >
> >
> >     On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:37 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >     <jeanbapti...@gmail.com
> <mailto:jeanbapti...@gmail.com>
> >     <mailto:jeanbapti...@gmail.com
> <mailto:jeanbapti...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >         Hi Niclas
> >
> >         First of all, thanks a lot for all what you did (and
> still doing
> >         😀).
> >
> >         I’m ready to take the hand for the domain and finance them.
> >
> >         Thoughts ?
> >
> >         Regards
> >         JB
> >
> >         Le mer. 19 févr. 2020 à 12:13, Niclas Hedhman
> >         <nic...@hedhman.org <mailto:nic...@hedhman.org>
> <mailto:nic...@hedhman.org <mailto:nic...@hedhman.org>>> a écrit :
> >
> >             Everyone,
> >             In a few months time (June), the OPS4J domain names
> are up
> >             for renewal. And I have been paying for those for 15
> years
> >             now, and since I no longer participate in OPS4J I
> would like
> >             to transfer the domain names. But where to??
> >
> >             Ideally a foundation that would be Ok to take it over,
> >             otherwise to a trusted community member.
> >
> >             Ideas are welcome, and should be discussed. I have no
> >             opinion and will simply follow what you all can agree on.
> >
> > ops4j.org <http://ops4j.org> <http://ops4j.org>
> > ops4j.net <http://ops4j.net> <http://ops4j.net>
> > ops4j.com <http://ops4j.com> <http://ops4j.com>
> >
> >
> >             Cheers
> >             Niclas
> >
> >             --
> >             --
> >             ------------------
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Niclas Hedhman

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Feb 20, 2020, 3:34:36 AM2/20/20
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Since I know one thing or two about Apache and the Apache License... perhaps I should chime in.

1. Pax Logger was actually donated to Felix once before, but nothing came out of it. It was a simple IP clearance paper to fill in and upload together with a tarball. This was simple because no community came with it.

2. Since re-licensing is not needed, all contributions in OPS4J can be handed over to Apache Software Foundation without getting approvals from individuals. Legally, Karaf could take the bits it wants and continue "over there", but that is against the tradition in Apache to not fork if the community doesn't want it.

3. IMHO, the main issue with Apache (or any other foundation) would be the "community". I would expect that everyone that has contributed anything would "come along" to Apache, in which case Karaf PMC might not be OK of accepting that many committers in one go, although they could do it. Going in via the Incubator is something I probably would recommend against. I haven't checked recently, but many years ago there were >100 contributors that had made commits to the Pax codebase. Of course, many just showed up for a single commit, and many are no longer around. But they shouldn't be ignored.

Niclas

Grzegorz Grzybek

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Feb 21, 2020, 5:18:58 AM2/21/20
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Hello

I really don't feel competent enough to discuss such organization changes. For me having Pax-Web (and Pax-Logging and others) outside of ASF gives me easier release process. But I confess that I don't think much about how Sonatype's OPS4J repos are managed, by whom and using what rules.

Felix indeed has log and http implementations, so adding pax-logging and pax-web to Karaf (even if natural) would be kind of strange at ASF.

I'd also never consider "merging" felix.log and felix.http with pax-logging and pax-web respectively, because the latter have some specific features many people got used to (e.g., Undertow backend)

What I miss is non existing CI for Pax projects. There was http://ci.ops4j.org/jenkins/ at some point, but it's no longer available.

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

Niclas Hedhman

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Feb 21, 2020, 5:31:13 AM2/21/20
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FTR; Grzegorz is basically (re-)expressing the the original intent of OPS4J, i.e. no barriers, welcoming and make it to what we will/want. In the beginning, the founders had to run all services and we took time to put up the stuff we needed. The services are now 3rd party, and although that has been very positive, it has also slowly brewed a "it is what it is" rather than "what I/we want", and less engagement from community members.

Going to Apache would also be a step "back", since OPS4J was a little bit protest against the "committer barriers" that is/was present in many projects. An over-protective mentality, if you like and OPS4J set out to prove that those barriers were not needed on the grounds that they were said to exist.

Also to note; OPS4J didn't set out to be OSGi-centric. It was just that OSGi needed a somewhat more neutral ground than the original "homes", i.e. KF, Felix and Equinox communities, because interoperability back then was quite horrendous.

Niclas

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Toni Menzel

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Feb 21, 2020, 6:11:37 AM2/21/20
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Yeah I agree with Nicolas concern about the original rebellious spirit of ops4j. I also like the highlight that ops4j is not just about osgi (that’s the pax prefix in all those projects btw).
The key question is if GitHub just removed the need for such a place?
If not, what should ops4j be? Coming back to options 1 to 3 of my original mail: just pay for the current expense (domain) or additionally refresh it with a little bit of extra effort (website/landing page, contribution guide) or (option 3) make it a legal entity (reasoning to be discussed).


Toni Menzel | rebaze.com
From: op...@googlegroups.com <op...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:30:59 AM
To: OPS4J <op...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: ops4j domain names
 

Achim Nierbeck

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Mar 21, 2020, 1:34:27 PM3/21/20
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Adding some more thoughts to it.
First of all, at least for Pax-Web the Actions seem to work as a ci replacement.
So basically everything runs smoothly.
Regarding keeping Pax-Web as part of ops4j or Apache Karaf, I have no strong preference.
It's just been an Idea, as it felt quite natural, as the main consumer is still Apache Karaf.
So basically I'm fine with any way we proceed.

Coming back to the Git-Hub Actions, as a CI replacement. It does work quite well, it would be great though to have an actually "green" build again ;)

regards, Achim


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Grzegorz Grzybek

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Mar 23, 2020, 2:02:25 AM3/23/20
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Hello

Coming back to the Git-Hub Actions, as a CI replacement. It does work quite well, it would be great though to have an actually "green" build again ;)

I'm working on it ;)

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

Guillaume Nodet

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Mar 23, 2020, 3:50:52 AM3/23/20
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Imho, we should switch everything to github.  I wouldn't even bother paying for a domain, i think something like ops4j.github.org is enough.

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Grzegorz Grzybek

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Mar 23, 2020, 4:00:30 AM3/23/20
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pon., 23 mar 2020 o 08:50 Guillaume Nodet <gno...@apache.org> napisał(a):
Imho, we should switch everything to github.  I wouldn't even bother paying for a domain, i think something like ops4j.github.org is enough.

+1.02

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek
 

Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Mar 23, 2020, 4:49:10 AM3/23/20
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That's a good idea.

Regards
JB

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Toni Menzel

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Mar 23, 2020, 4:58:12 AM3/23/20
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yep, moving CI to 100% githib actions would allow us to decommission the old Jenkins instance.
Is there a resolution regarding the domain names yet?

Toni Menzel | Strategic Software Delivery Consultant @ rebaze GmbH
Consultant profile    tonimenzel.com 
Consultancy profile  rebaze.com
#CloudNative #Accelerate #DevEx


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françois papon

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Mar 23, 2020, 4:59:52 AM3/23/20
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It make sense :)

regards,

François

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Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Mar 23, 2020, 5:00:58 AM3/23/20
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Not formal one yet. I can start a vote.

Regards
JB

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Peter Neubauer

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Mar 30, 2020, 10:34:03 AM3/30/20
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Thanks Niclas for bringing up the issue!

FWIW - I think Github is basically what OPS4J set out to be code-contribution-wise. IMHO going back to Apache is a matter of the community deciding if the barriers for governance/contribution are lower now. Otherwise - I think just moving everything to Github - only would be the lowest-threshold option here.

/peter
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Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Mar 30, 2020, 10:37:06 AM3/30/20
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I agree.

What do you think I start a vote on the mailing list to propose to move to ops4j.github.com ?

Regards
JB

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Niclas Hedhman

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Mar 30, 2020, 10:15:19 PM3/30/20
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The thread's primary question is; 

Shall I a) let the ops4j domain names expire, or b) transfer them to someone else? If b), then Who/What?

The rest is "interesting" but actually "out of scope" for something very concrete in 10 weeks time. The full structure of community can in principle be discussed/decided later, or not...


// Niclas

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Grzegorz Grzybek

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Mar 31, 2020, 12:42:36 AM3/31/20
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Hello

What do you think I start a vote on the mailing list

+1 for starting the vote ;)

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

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Jean-Baptiste Onofré

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Mar 31, 2020, 1:39:12 AM3/31/20
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Even if we go to ops4j.github.com, I think it will be helpful to redirect from ops4j.org. So, I volunteer to "take" the ops4j domain. It will give us time to "transfer" resources to github.

OK with that ?

Regards
JB

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Niclas Hedhman

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Mar 31, 2020, 2:19:39 AM3/31/20
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I am... That is then what the vote is for...



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Grzegorz Grzybek

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Mar 31, 2020, 3:20:43 AM3/31/20
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For me, ops4j.org page never worked (I mean it shows only "It works!"), so I'm +1 for moving to ops4j.github.org with or without redirect from ops4j.org TLD.

regards
Grzegorz Grzybek

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Oliver Lietz

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Mar 31, 2020, 7:02:22 AM3/31/20
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On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:20:29 AM CEST Grzegorz Grzybek wrote:
> For me, ops4j.org page never worked (I mean it shows only "It works!"), so
> I'm +1 for moving to ops4j.github.org with or without redirect from
> ops4j.org TLD.

I strongly suggest to keep the ops4j domains (at the very least ops4j.org):

1) Reverse domain name (org.ops4j.) is used for all releases
2) Keeping ops4j domains is the only way to prevent takeover by scammers
3) What should happen if GitHub will go away in the future (unlikely but
happened to other services, e.g. java.net)?

We can point all ops4j.[org|net|com] to ops4j.github.io with no effort (even
supported by low-budget hosting providers).

I'm willing to spend some bucks and time for keeping the domains and setting
up a minimal website for the project (we use JBake at Apache Sling to generate
a static website, could be an option here also).

Regards,
O.
> >>>>>>> *TL/TR:*
> >>>>>>> I'd be also happy to pay for ops4j.org (the one that is actively
> >>>>>>> used atm).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Long version:*
> >>>>>>> Since this is coming up now, there is a general question were to go
> >>>>>>> with OPS4J in general.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It predated github and probably was back then the easiest way to get
> >>>>>>> hands dirty in a non-trivial java based OSS community where trust
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>> default. Think about it, back then everyone could get write access
> >>>>>>> to the
> >>>>>>> subversion repo and start hacking on new or existing projects.
> >>>>>>> Including
> >>>>>>> admin access to jira and whatever else was existing back then. Pax
> >>>>>>> URL, Pax
> >>>>>>> Runner, Pax Exam, Pax Construct etc. all got initiated by
> >>>>>>> individuals
> >>>>>>> without asking for permission. I mean.. thats Names like Pax
> >>>>>>> Tinybundles
> >>>>>>> got to life.. but oh well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now, why am I writing this: there is - at least for pax url, web and
> >>>>>>> exam - a huge user base that seems to be quite healthy. Even if
> >>>>>>> there is
> >>>>>>> just that "ops4j" name of the github organization now, no website
> >>>>>>> etc.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, question: what are the options? Let me just drop them here that
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> come to my mind (ordered from easy-as-py to more complicated
options):
> >>>>>>> - keep things as is, find individual sponsors like I do with the
> >>>>>>> Build Server (who uses that still by the way??), and JB or me
> >>>>>>> (this means
> >>>>>>> I'd be also fine to pay for the org domain that is in active
> >>>>>>> use,too btw).
> >>>>>>> It would be good to have two different companies or legal
> >>>>>>> entities backing
> >>>>>>> this anyway.
> >>>>>>> - Modernize OPS4J a bit. Get it a landing page at least and a
> >>>>>>> clear who is behind all this, who pays etc. Maybe look at Github
> >>>>>>> Sponsoring
> >>>>>>> to spread costs across user base - avoid single entity control.
> >>>>>>> - Maybe look into making it a proper foundation or at least an
> >>>>>>> entity that makes the work here eligible for future donations. I
> >>>>>>> am not
> >>>>>>> sure of this is worth it. But i feel Open Source != Open
> >>>>>>> Governance.
> >>>>>>> - Retire non active projects and donate active projects to
> >>>>>>> apache. Probably difficult because of Intellectual Property)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> wdyt?
> >>>>>>> Toni
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Toni Menzel | rebaze.com <https://www.rebaze.com> | growing
> >>>>>>> developer culture*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CADmm%2BKf7a0rzdkro7v-rx
> >>>>>>>>> BV1p1-KkSMTE_BQT2HhUZyOUM9jyA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&ut
> >>>>>>>>> m_source=footer> .
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> ------------------
> >>>>>>>> OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - op...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3QGMMWvzzCck96CxemuYg
> >>>>>>>> SiYWNcs%2BOGPXmtaKTthoJvrw%40mail.gmail.com
> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3QGMMWvzzCck96Cxemu
> >>>>>>>> YgSiYWNcs%2BOGPXmtaKTthoJvrw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_
> >>>>>>>> source=footer> .
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
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> >>>>>>> OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - op...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>> send an email to op...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAEjgzHT%2BYNAL3CA1dsqGpevhp
> >>>>>>> oYsU9OYVUBi%3Df%2BMT9_u5ta3fw%40mail.gmail.com
> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAEjgzHT%2BYNAL3CA1dsqGpev
> >>>>>>> hpoYsU9OYVUBi%3Df%2BMT9_u5ta3fw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&ut
> >>>>>>> m_source=footer> .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> ------------------------
> >>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> ------------------
> >>>>> OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - op...@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>
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> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/14adf9b2-1de0-4af5-835e-832c3c
> >>>>> 1e1185%40googlegroups.com
> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/14adf9b2-1de0-4af5-835e-832c
> >>>>> 3c1e1185%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> .
> >>>>
> >>>> --
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> >>>> ------------------
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> >>>>
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> >>>> y5G6w%3DvweJBXmMZ_4XZw%40mail.gmail.com
> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3RyG8sxL49uTn4pT2nssc5Y
> >>>> tGy5G6w%3DvweJBXmMZ_4XZw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f
> >>>> ooter> .
> >>>
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Oliver Lietz | Wintgensweg 29 | 45481 Mülheim an der Ruhr
fon: +49 208 41191263 | fax: +49 208 41191264
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