Standing capacities

[ciaran haines]

Hi,

I want to be able to give seating and standing capacities for upcoming trains. I'm looking at the Gemini data but haven't seen standing capacity included even though Darwin outputs standing capacity. I just started so I may have just not have seen it yet.

What is included is the train class in the ResourceGroupID. I know that Wikipedia has pretty good data for the various classes, but that seems like a long way round.  I wondered if there is any collected source for the seating / standing capacities of different train classes.

Cheers

Ciaran

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Ciaran

On Thursday, 9 October 2025 at 15:36, 'ciaran haines' via A gathering place for the Open Rail Data community <openrail...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I want to be able to give seating and standing capacities for upcoming trains. I'm looking at the Gemini data but haven't seen standing capacity included even though Darwin outputs standing capacity. I just started so I may have just not have seen it yet.

What is included is the train class in the ResourceGroupID. I know that Wikipedia has pretty good data for the various classes, but that seems like a long way round. I wondered if there is any collected source for the seating / standing capacities of different train classes.

It may seem like the long way around, but success does not come from doing the easy things :)

Peter

[Andrew Bolton]

Do also be aware that the Gemini data isn't necessarily correct - where a vehicle is a composite (so has both first and standard class seating), it only appears to report the first class seating capacity even if both are set in R2, the internal asset management system the data is being derived from. I know this is the case for GTR's fleets as I spent some time earlier in the year making sure the underlying data was correct!

Andrew

[Matthew Burdett]

Id be careful what you take from Wikipedia as well but I'm sure you knew that ;-)

I've tried to update so many pages (that are still out of date), but rejected because they didn't like my source. 

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[Peter Hicks]

On Thursday, 9 October 2025 at 16:09, Andrew Bolton <andrew.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do also be aware that the Gemini data isn't necessarily correct - where a vehicle is a composite (so has both first and standard class seating), it only appears to report the first class seating capacity even if both are set in R2, the internal asset management system the data is being derived from. I know this is the case for GTR's fleets as I spent some time earlier in the year making sure the underlying data was correct!

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'd like to think that if there's a problem with the R2 -> GEMINI interface like this, consumption by more than just internal industry systems would help make the case for fixing the interface.

Peter

[Andrew Bolton]

To be honest I've not investigated further however I suspect it's a long-standing issue as the same data is presented in the internal Web Gemini system and I'd noticed the discrepancy there before.

For example, 377101 shows as (excuse the poor formatting - I don't seem to be able to add a table):

Vehicle | Type | Spl | Class | Seats
78501 | EA3180A | GQ9 | Com |12
77101 | EC2310B | 9 | Std | 60
78901 | EH2530B | WD9 | Std | 56
78701 | EA3180B | GQ9 | Com | 12

This I believe matches the data you see in the new Gemini feed.

In R2, the design code ('type' in the above) EA3180A has:

Number Of Seats (1st Class):  12
Number Of Seats (Standard Class): 48

I know the data is fed through from R2 as I could see the data updated in Web Gemini once we'd made the changes in R2 - it wasn't immediate though, I assume it was an overnight sync.

Andrew

[ciaran haines]

Thanks for all the details folks!