Still need to continue manufacturing PNPV5?

[bing luo]

         There are many PNP products in the market that use belt transmission  now  , most of which originate from  Charmhigh , so their structures are similar, with most using drag feeders. And their PNP software systems are all developed by themselves.

         Many people are modifying their CHM-T36VA and ZB3245T operating systems here. They hope to switch to the openpnp operating system.

         So I referred to ZB3245TS to create a brand new PNPV5   machine, and its main accessory configuration is:

10mm thick aluminum alloy base plate,
15mm width belt, GATES
15mm wide linear guide rail, HWIN
57mm stepper motor, STP (uncertain)
150W  24VDC,   Meanwell
Vacuum pump, Kamoer
Vacuum solenoid valve, Airtac (uncertain)

2 million pixels  Top and bottom cameras，  ELP( uncertain)

These accessories will be installed in the  metal box like ZB3245TS.

it can  be   placed   20pcs  feeders before and after, for a total of 40 feeders .  You can choose Bing feeder , and also offer second-hand Yamaha pneumatic feeders (you need to purchase a small air compressor yourself).

The price of the machine will be very expensive, excluding overseas shipping, tariffs, and VAT, which will cost $2500. Is this machine worth completing (there are currently no technical issues)?    Because openpnp can be made better and more expensive, as well as cheaper（$500 or $400）.

 If you have any suggestions for its design, please let me know. 

[Satya Gupta]

Excellent, I am converting my TVM802AX into openpnp too

[Jarosław Karwik]

There is reasonable benefit in having X/Y motors powered from 48V - you can follow some of the discussion in my thread of converting CHM-T36VA control to Duet/OpenPnp

Bing feeders are good choice, but you could see how Pandaplacer arranged their feeder connection and adapt Bing solution a bit ( to avoid hanging cables)

[bing luo]

Because TMC2209 cannot provide sufficient current to the 57 stepper motors, specialized drive modules are needed for the X-axis and Y-axis 57  stepper motors. The drive modules can use independent 48VDC,   while the control board uses 24VDC.  

 If  need not   worry about the noise of the air compressor, the second-hand Yamaha pneumatic feeder will be more stable than the Bing feeder, with industrial grade stability. It's not expensive either, with a unit price of $25.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Well, with real production Yamaha would be best. But for small series and prototypes I would prefer small and compact feeders-cardridges (which keep feeder and components all together) . Basically hard to get solution which satisfies mutually exclusive requirements.

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[bing luo]

Similar to this type of feeder platform.    However, the machine will be as heavy as the CHM-T36VA and ZB3245T, resulting in high transportation costs. This seems to be at odds with the philosophy of openpnp.    Openpnp hopes that machines can be as cheap as possible like 3D printers, making them affordable for everyone. The 3D printer has indeed achieved this,  a small BambooLab  A1  mini  high-speed printer costing only $200.     The Bamboo Lab P1S priced at $500 is already able to meet everyone's needs.  

But PNP is not like that. Among the dozen or so manufacturers like Charmhigh that I have seen, they have not replaced aluminum alloy platforms with iron plates (because thin iron plates do not have rigidity).  So they won't use aluminum profiles to manufacture it either.  Assembly and debugging require a lot of manual labor, so their sales prices are all above $3000, and I can't see products below $2000.   Therefore, I feel that I may not need to manufacture it.
 

[Jarosław Karwik]

Have you seen how Prusa delivers its XL model ? ( e.g. https://help.prusa3d.com/category/original-prusa-xl-single-tool-semi-assembled_1943 ) See

They have it made so modular and easy to assemble that it takes about 3-4h to get machine working. If you could make your kit for pick and place like that - I think quite many people would be interesting.

I am assembling Pandaplacer now and it takes ages to go over millions of small parts. Doable, but not everybody enjoys such work.

About heavy machine - there also one more way to reduce cost.

It is relatively easy to get locally  aluminium and steel  flat parts - laser or water cut.  So If I could order semi assembled kit for all the small parts and get locally cut all the heavy aluminium parts - that would work as well.

[bing luo]

Prusa is not sold in China. BambuLab's 3D printer has such excellent performance, but its price only ranges from $200 to $600. So any 3D printer that needs to be assembled has lost its market.   However, BambuLab has a strong founding team that has received millions of dollars in investment.  

I probably won't complete PNPv5 .    Because there are currently over 10 PNP brands in China priced between $2500 and $3500. They have added ball bearings, closed-loop motors, and aerial cameras. They even started using grating rulers and marble bases.

[bing luo]

Because there are many SMT factories in Shenzhen, I have been exposed to various PNP, JUKI, Hitachi, SONY, Siemens, so the impression it gives me is that the stronger, the better, and the heavier, the better.   So  I can't even imagine using 2020 aluminum profiles and iron sheet   to make PNP frames. 

The Bing feeder priced at $16 is only suitable for DIY kits like PNPv3. Because it is 3D printed, it does not match the finished PNP of $2500 PNPv5. At this price point, the minimum requirements for speed and accuracy are Yamaha's CL pneumatic feeder. But second-hand Yamaha feeders cannot be exported.

So all my work on PNP v5 will come to a halt.

在2024年9月5日星期四 UTC+8 18:39:46<jarosla...@gmail.com> 写道：

[SM]

> But second-hand Yamaha feeders cannot be exported

Interesting. Got an answer today from a seller in shenzhen and they would sell me used Yamaha feeders

[Bingluo]

Second hand Yamaha feeders are very cheap. The unit price is $13 (excluding solenoid valves). However, some countries' customs prohibit the import of second-hand goods.

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[OpenPnP] Re: Still need to continue manufacturing PNPV5?

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