Request for Testing: Major OpenCV Update

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi folks,

I've just pushed a new version of OpenPnP with a major update to OpenCV, which is the computer vision library we use. We went from version 2.4.11 to 3.4.2.

I'd like to ask that a few people download the Latest version from http://openpnp.org/downloads/ and give it a try. In particular, it would be nice to get some Windows and Linux users, both 32 and 64 bit, if possible. I have personally tested Mac, and Windows 64bit. 

So, if you have a moment, please go to http://openpnp.org/downloads/ and download "Latest" for your platform. Install it, start it up and see if everything seems to be working. In particular, check that cameras are still initializing, and that your pipelines still work as expected.

Let me know if you run into any issues.

Thanks,

Jason

[Marek T.]

Hi Jason,
Do you want to check it with opencv or openpnpCapture driver?

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Marek,

OpenCV, if possible. No need to setup a new configuration though. I'm mainly testing that the library loads correctly and basically works, and you can verify that just by running a fiducial check or opening a pipeline and seeing that it works.

Mostly just looking to know that it doesn't crash on startup :)

Jason

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 11:46 AM Marek T. <marek.tw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jason,
Do you want to check it with opencv or openpnpCapture driver?

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[Marek T.]

Ok, tomorrow morning consider done ;)

[Jason von Nieda]

Thank you!

Jason

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 11:50 AM Marek T. <marek.tw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, tomorrow morning consider done ;)

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[Marek T.]

Hi Jason

I don't have usable news for you. Cannot run it at real machine today due to some jobes running that cannot to break for experiments today.

Will try tomorrow.

But I have compiled project at home with maven console and it starts rather normally. But don't understand why cannot to edit it with Eclipse which screams about errors.

Thread [main] (Suspended (ClassPool cannot be resolved to a type))   
    Main.monkeyPatchBeansBinding() line: 87   
    Main.main(String[]) line: 116   

Sorry, my game with Eclipse is at the begining of the story. Can you advise what I did wrong or forgotten to do?

br

Marek

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Marek,

In Eclipse, try right clicking on the project and select Maven -> Update Project.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/20d3d604-4acf-4639-a671-3d0fdb13dff9%40googlegroups.com.

[Алексей Иванов]

Hi Jason,

in latest version not working Maskcircle,  write message "java.lang.Exception: Stage not enabled.",
very much initialization of cameras lasts long

понедельник, 6 августа 2018 г., 16:12:41 UTC+3 пользователь Jason von Nieda написал:

[Алексей Иванов]

I have understood. it is necessary to enter diameter 10 times less, than in the old version of the program

понедельник, 6 августа 2018 г., 16:48:34 UTC+3 пользователь Алексей Иванов написал:

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Алексей,

Thank for finding that. That is an error I will correct. Will check on it tonight.

Thanks,

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/4f551c4f-0115-4730-b90a-75c1f3937c91%40googlegroups.com.

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Алексей,

I'm not able to reproduce this issue. I tried a MaskCircle with value of 100 in both the old and new, and they appeared the same. Can you provide more details?

Thanks,

Jason

[Marek T.]

Hi Jason,

Fresh installation, see attached. Removing machine or .openpnp changes nothing.

br

Marek

[Marek T.]

Windows7_64bit.

Your packeted java is 8.131, actual is 8.181. Have you not overslept something? ;). If you do so "major" update maybe worth to keep Java same updated?

However I have tried run it with 151 and 162 - the same error.

Older jar works normally.

What interesting on another computer it works. But OpenCV SDK installed on it.

br

Marek

[Jason von Nieda]

Thanks Marek, I tested on Windows 10 but not Windows 7. I'll see if something is missing.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/0047fa19-57bd-4d11-9193-e11f8e935380%40googlegroups.com.

[Marek T.]

This another computer on that it works is also Windows7-64. The one where OpenCVsdk installed.

Do you think that this sdk may be important for this issue? I have probably another PC quite close to me where is not sdk so can check it if you think it's worth.

[Marek T.]

I have installed Openpnp on another machine just now. Same W7-64. No separately installed Java or OpenCV there. And it works!!!

So don't think you may find something at your side.

You better try to think how I can track why it doesn't start on my second machine (which is PC with pnp machine connected), for sure the problem will repeat at others if happened once.

[Jason von Nieda]

Hi Marek,

I think if you uninstalled the OpenCV SDK, or remove it from your PATH, it would probably work. OpenPnP is probably loading your local copy of OpenCV and then failing when the dependencies don't match.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/7e26e891-2e15-40ec-bd51-0a0cb2c151a2%40googlegroups.com.

[Marek T.]

No Jason, you didn't understand me.

The computer where it doesn't work never had OpenCV installed.

[Jason von Nieda]

Okay, good to know. Thank you. I'll do some testing on Windows 7 and see what I find. I suspect that maybe it's using a newer version of the MSVC libraries, so I'll compare the old and new.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/550015dd-53f1-44d5-a520-9555ff150d98%40googlegroups.com.

[Marek T.]

There is probably (I'm not there now) JAVA_HOME and PATH to apache-maven declared in environmental variables.

But the same in the machine where I sit now and it works. So it's rather not this.

I can't check on the momment anything that relates to MSVC there.

But do you think that solvation could be updating the MSVC there? Or need to you add some to the install packet?

If you will need to perform any tests at my side, just write me and I'll do it tomorrow.

[Marek T.]

Hi Jason,

A log from Dependency Walker could be usable for you to find where the problem is?

We have tried today different magics to run it and not any minimal success :-(

br

Marek

[Marek T.]

Hi again Jason,

So I have tracked dependencies and found missing libraries at least

[ ? ]  API-MS-WIN-DOWNLEVEL-SHLWAPI-L1-1-0.DLL        Error opening file. The system cannot find the file specified (2).
[D? ]  IESHIMS.DLL                                    Error opening file. The system cannot find the file specified (2).

Manually have registered the first one only and Openpnp finally started, hurra!

So the question is what should this library normally install. Is it from MSVC (have there 2013, 2015, 2017) or what is this coming with?

Manual adding don't think is good way. I'm not sure who should properly update it: Openpnp or other soft by user.

See attached dependency for opencv_java342.dll and you can see all that missing there more (line 2915 of txt).

br

Marek

[Jason von Nieda]

I didn’t have time to look at this last night but I did find this https://github.com/opencv/opencv/issues/12010

So it looks like Win 7 is no longer “officially” supported by OpenCV.

I’ll see if I can figure out what supplies this file and see if we can bundle it, or at least provide instructions on how to install it.

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/445c4422-10a2-4ef6-a0f2-fc009337e3e9%40googlegroups.com.

[Marek T.]

I saw this.

But "Api-ms-win-downlevel-shlwapi-l1-1-0.dll" I have normally found on another computer with W7Ultimate and for sure it was not added there manually but installed by some official MS update.

The same on second computer with W7Entrprise. So telling "which is not in Windows 7" is rather notabsolutely true.

But I hadn't it on non-working computer - hard to say why, maybe removed while some crazy fix scans.

However It looks they did the same what I did - added missing dll. Small inconvenience is that that this library must be system compatible. So it's also little strange that it worked for them when taken from W10.

I tried to add library taken from 7Enterprise to 7Ultimate and it didn't work. So compatibility W10 to W7 sounds strange.

br

Marek

[Jason von Nieda]

Alright, I've read a dozen terrible forum posts and useless SPAM websites and I cannot figure out where this file comes from. Is anyone familiar with this Api-ms-win-downlevel-shlwapi-l1-1-0.dll file? Or any other "downlevel" file?

I'm trying to determine what the best course of action is. The OpenCV post says to rebuild it, which I can do if needed, but it's really a pain. I'd rather just know what needs to be installed and tell users to install it. 

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Jason

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/f14a436d-5b3e-4e21-b2cf-dee1f8222cd6%40googlegroups.com.

[Marek T.]

Yes I found exactly the same sh* and given up.

DependencyWalker (that is outdated and not showing everything corectly) shows this one lowlevel dll missing and sort of ms-win-core-winrt which probably comes with Windows newer than W8 only (and are not needed probably for our case).

I have not found how "normally" add this lowlevel dll. Some says it comes with MSVC redists but I placed every from 2010-2017 and it didn't help.

Openpnp works normally after manual adding this one (frankly speaking two as one the same named is in System32 and second in WOW64). Pain that need to find the concrete one fitting to concrete system version.

br

Marek

[flipt...@gmail.com]

Jason,

Thanks for all your effort on this project.  I am new to this so I apologize if this is not the right place to ask this.  

I was told that openpnp only corrects rotation from the vision camera not the actual XY offset is this true?  

On Sunday, August 5, 2018 at 9:31:22 AM UTC-7, Jason von Nieda wrote:

Hi folks,

I've just pushed a new version of OpenPnP with a major update to OpenCV, which is the computer vision library we use. We went from version 2.4.11 to 3.4.2.

I'd like to ask that a few people download the Latest version from http://openpnp.org/downloads/ and give it a try. In particular, it would be nice to get some Windows and Linux users, both 32 and 64 bit, if possible. I have personally tested Mac, and Windows 64bit. 

So, if you have a moment, please go to http://openpnp.org/downloads/ and download "Latest" for your platform. Install it, start it up and see if everything seems to be working. In particular, check that cameras are still initializing, and that your pipelines still work as expected.

Let me know if you run into any issues.

Thanks,

Jason

[Jason von Nieda]

That is incorrect. OpenPnP bottom vision corrects X, Y, and rotational offsets.

Jason

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[flipt...@gmail.com]

Jason,

It seems that when using feeder pickup adjustment the software will add the correction to the tape pull is this correct?  If so can we eliminate this?  Having an issue where part picks up first time but then during next pin pull it compensates and the part misses.  I would like the pin pull to be consistent and just adjust head for pickup variation.  Thanks again!

[Jason von Nieda]

Are you referring to the drag feeder vision correction? If so, it was done that way because the issue I encountered was missing the pin hole, not the part. Maybe we could revisit it, but as of now there's no easy way to just disable that unless you disable the vision in the drag feeder entirely.

Jason

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[Ramya vayyasi]

Hi there,

I am facing issue while using openpnp i am getting the following exception: 

Caused by: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no opencv_java342 in java.library.path

at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1867)

at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary0(Runtime.java:870)

at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(System.java:1122)

Please let me know how to solve this issue using eclipse

Ramya

[k smith]

Jason,

Is OpenPNP compatible with Centroid Acorn?  I am looking for a long term powerful platform to develop on.  I know the smoothieboard has great support but it seems the specs are not quite as good as this hardware.  The smoothie pro v2 seems promising but seems like it some time out.  I would be happy to purchase one of these to contribute to your development if you think it is worthwhile.  Thanks and let me know your thoughts.

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[Jarosław Karwik]

Centroid uses G codes as well (checked its specs), so it is very likely you can configure it for OpenPnP.

But it looks like overkill - unlike in CNC world here the controller speed is somehow less critical.

[Marek T.]

It depends what speed means.
In my case Smoothieboard is limitation with it's max 100MHz step outputs frequency. With this freq I can't use the highest resolution of my motors and their highest speed but must choose the compromise.

[Jarosław Karwik]

100MHz ??? Or 100kHz ;-)

Usually you do not need full resolution of motors - once you go under 0.01 ( or even 0.05) there are other factors limiting accuracy.

And unless you have heavy pro machine with linear motors - it is usually  overkill. 

And if you truly want to press your servos - usually they have serial/ethernet protocol which allows direct control with full resolution.

If not -  there are options which allow (in servo) multiplying steps - in this case control resolution is lower, but the servo retains full precision in positioning.

[Paul Kelly]

Yeah.... No.

So our 1980s vintage machines have a repeatability of 0.02m and a speed of 72000mm/min

They have 1000 line (4000CPR) encoders and 20mm pitch screws

 

72m/min needs a screw speed of 3600rpm and that’s 240KHz  per axis. Just to get to an old machine good for 1000-2000CPH.

0.02mm is just four encoder counts, I doubt you could get the following error much less than that. Besides, you must have more resolution than accuracy or you cant get repeatability. Our machines spec to 0.005mm resolution.

 

So this is a real world example of the kind of precision that was required in the 80’s to do the job. I bet todays machines are a notch or two better and faster.

 

On top of that, we’ve now run a few thousand boards in our OpenPnP retrofitted machine, so we’ve got a good feel for it’s limits.

 

As part of our current “lets revisit the retrofit and get it right this time” project, we’ve bought a KFlop board which looks like it will be fine, there’s a few show stoppers for us with the smoothie.

We’ve also gone to 450W  brushless AC servo’s.

 

I’ll post a writeup when it’s all done and making money.

 

PK

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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[Marek T.]

Sure, typo, 100kHz not MHz.
It's not any overkilling. If I want get max speed of my motors I must use 100kHz steps and 2x mode for encoders (lower accuracy) or 200kHz and 4x mode. Sure can use x4 and 100kHz - and get it working very slow. Encoders are 1000dpr resolution. So or speed or accuracy. Don't forget there is leading screw by the way with its transmission rate.
I heard there are some controllers on the market with step frequency like 400kHz. So really 100kHz is nothing special.
Btw, Smoothieboard allows to run up to 145kHz at my settings, then begins hang up if set even 146. As it depends on different settings and somehow on the memory usage probably it is really not stable (also not recommended by smoothie creators) So I've tested it but didn't want to risk and left it set default 100.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Well,

@PK

If you retrofit older machine - which was originally really good one ( casted iron or welded/heat processed), then  indeed you can get high accuracy.

Usually such machines require fork lift :-) , I would not be able to place it in my office :-(  

But in such case step/dir control  is a bottleneck ( well, you can always use something like that - https://dynomotion.com/KFLOP.html ).

I would use servos with CAN/RS485 direct control - you do not need step/dir controller for most of AC servos as they can be just told where to drive directly.

@Marek

Smoothie v1 and v2 use similar hardware to my CNC controllers - i can get 125kHz in case of v1 ( LPC1769) and 250kHz ( LPC4330). I could get even 400kHz - 250kHz is for 5 axes simultaneously. Just note that 400kHz usually means differential lines for step/dir control.

What kind of servo ( type) do you have ? 

[Paul Kelly]

Well,

 

@PK

If you retrofit older machine - which was originally really good one ( casted iron or welded/heat processed), then  indeed you can get high accuracy.

Usually such machines require fork lift :-) , I would not be able to place it in my office :-(  

 

Yeah, real SMT lines are big things. We’ve just added a selective solder robot and stencil printer. Even with our little batch reflow ovens it’s starting to get tight in the assembly room.

 

But in such case step/dir control  is a bottleneck ( well, you can always use something like that - https://dynomotion.com/KFLOP.html ).

I would use servos with CAN/RS485 direct control - you do not need step/dir controller for most of AC servos as they can be just told where to drive directly.

 

True, Kflop is a good middle ground though because it will take GCode over serial, someone has already done an OpenPnP implementation. It’s also reasonably priced.

 

PK

 

@Marek

Smoothie v1 and v2 use similar hardware to my CNC controllers - i can get 125kHz in case of v1 ( LPC1769) and 250kHz ( LPC4330). I could get even 400kHz - 250kHz is for 5 axes simultaneously. Just note that 400kHz usually means differential lines for step/dir control.

 

What kind of servo ( type) do you have ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

W dniu sobota, 9 lutego 2019 19:42:26 UTC+1 użytkownik Marek T. napisał:

Sure, typo, 100kHz not MHz.
It's not any overkilling. If I want get max speed of my motors I must use 100kHz steps and 2x mode for encoders (lower accuracy) or 200kHz and 4x mode. Sure can use x4 and 100kHz - and get it working very slow. Encoders are 1000dpr resolution. So or speed or accuracy. Don't forget there is leading screw by the way with its transmission rate.
I heard there are some controllers on the market with step frequency like 400kHz. So really 100kHz is nothing special.
Btw, Smoothieboard allows to run up to 145kHz at my settings, then begins hang up if set even 146. As it depends on different settings and somehow on the memory usage probably it is really not stable (also not recommended by smoothie creators) So I've tested it but didn't want to risk and left it set default 100.

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[Marek T.]

Motor are SanyoDenki with encoder and driver is some Hungarian shit.
My machine is also retrofited industrial and almost the the same as Paul has, it is Philips CSM-46 (he's got 60 or 84). I need 200khz for each step output.
About 400kHz you're maybe right, i didn't "investigated" it yet too much.
What is your motion controller having 250kHz?

[Marek T.]

As far as I know Smoothie v2 is also limited to 100kHz due to the firmware architecture construction. At least one of the main Smoothie creator said so when asked him few months ago.
Step - bottleneck sure and loop out of control. The best could be to have motion controller with dc-servo direct controlling instead of steppers...

[Arthur Wolf]

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 9:14 PM Jarosław Karwik <jarosla...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well,

@PK

If you retrofit older machine - which was originally really good one ( casted iron or welded/heat processed), then  indeed you can get high accuracy.

Usually such machines require fork lift :-) , I would not be able to place it in my office :-(  

But in such case step/dir control  is a bottleneck ( well, you can always use something like that - https://dynomotion.com/KFLOP.html ).

I would use servos with CAN/RS485 direct control - you do not need step/dir controller for most of AC servos as they can be just told where to drive directly.

@Marek

Smoothie v1 and v2 use similar hardware to my CNC controllers - i can get 125kHz in case of v1 ( LPC1769) and 250kHz ( LPC4330). I could get even 400kHz - 250kHz is for 5 axes simultaneously. Just note that 400kHz usually means differential lines for step/dir control.

Wait what ? How do you know what rate v2 goes at ? I don't even know :) It's not released, we are barely touching the surface of the firmware etc :)

What kind of servo ( type) do you have ? 

W dniu sobota, 9 lutego 2019 19:42:26 UTC+1 użytkownik Marek T. napisał:

Sure, typo, 100kHz not MHz.
It's not any overkilling. If I want get max speed of my motors I must use 100kHz steps and 2x mode for encoders (lower accuracy) or 200kHz and 4x mode. Sure can use x4 and 100kHz - and get it working very slow. Encoders are 1000dpr resolution. So or speed or accuracy. Don't forget there is leading screw by the way with its transmission rate.
I heard there are some controllers on the market with step frequency like 400kHz. So really 100kHz is nothing special.
Btw, Smoothieboard allows to run up to 145kHz at my settings, then begins hang up if set even 146. As it depends on different settings and somehow on the memory usage probably it is really not stable (also not recommended by smoothie creators) So I've tested it but didn't want to risk and left it set default 100.

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[Michael Anton]

@PK

I'm curious, what soldering robot did you settle on?  I just picked up an old Apollo Seiko L-Cat for that purpose, and I'm expecting delivery of it next week...

[Paul Kelly]

I’m on the road at the moment, let’s see if I can find a picture..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8QQyge818fA1NsmP9

 

Made by Waterun, I visited them on a recent trip to China and took some boards with me. They lashed up a fixture and it did a good job.

PK

 

From: Michael Anton
Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 7:46 PM
To: OpenPnP
Subject: Re: [OpenPnP] Re: Request for Testing: Major OpenCV Update

 

@PK

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openpnp/ed26e150-2a21-402d-ace6-738679281e3e%40googlegroups.com.

[Jarosław Karwik]

Hi,

I am OEM manufacturer of CNC controllers for  one of polish companies. My last two generations ( there were some before using LPC2368 ) are similar to Smoothie v1 and v2.

I use LPC1769 in previous generation and LPC4330 in last one. With LPC1769 I had 120kHz step generation for 4 axis. LPC4330 , with its dual core and 204Mhz clock gives about 250kHz ( 4 true axis and three indexable )

My controller is a bit different one then most - PC software precompiles whole machine path and sends motion vectors to the controller memory. 

It allows several optimizations (like speed between vectors ).

That is why I estimated that Smoothie v2 should be capable of similar speed.

[Marek T.]

So is possible to run this your faster controller with Openpnp without actual gcode driver modification?

[Jarosław Karwik]

My controller does not use Gcodes - only operates on predefined files with vectors.

It is no suitable for OpenPnp at all - it would require several modifications.

As Smoothie v2 is not ready, you might consider investing in KFlop - or something similar ( I recall at least one or two other with capability ~ 500kHz ) 

[Marek T.]

Understand. I'll check this kflop some day

[Marius Liebenberg]

Have you got a link to your product somewhere? I am looking for replacements for my current products. I am also a CNC machine builder mostly plasma and textile cutters.

[Jarosław Karwik]

The controller is not on the market - I will put some pictures on Monday.

There is one big disadvantage - it does not support G codes. Right now it works with my friend software designed specifically for his machines ( see http://lynx-poland.com/ , unfortunately no english there). So you would need something which converts your CAM format to vectors.

It is dual core processor which drives the controller - the second core drives PLC logic. It accepts scripts written in BASIC , I have implemented toolchain which creates byte code for my BASIC virtual machine in processor M0 core.