*Blow Off Actuators* Setup and Understanding

[Zdenko Stanec]

Good evening,

I am in process of setting up a Blow-Off Actuator-s and I have few questions.

I manage to actuate all Blow-Off Actuator-s manually, but it seems they are not working when I Start processing the job file and I don't know why.

The first question, as I use 2 Smoothie boards I have 4 Valves on Smoothie_1 and 4 Valves on Smoothie_2, why do I see Valves that are Actuated by Smoothie_2 on Smoothie_1 and Smoothie_2? 

Smoothie_1:

Smoothie_2:

Setup is done on Smoothie_2, and I can actuate Valves manually over the panel:

N3_VAC:

{True:M811}{False:M810}

N3_Blow_Off:

{True:M805}{False:M804}

N4_VAC:

{True:M813}{False:M812}

N4_Blow_Off:

{True:M807}{False:M806}

Setup on Nozzle_X to 4 is like this:

I played with Pick Dwell Time and I just can't make this Blow-Off Valves to work, if I understand it correctly placement goes like this:

1. Machine goes to XYZ location Activates the Vacuum Valve * Pick Dwell Time

2. Machine goes to XYZ location Deactivates the Vacuum Valve -> Activates Blow-Off valve * Place Dwell Time

Or do I have a completely wrong understanding of it? 😊

Thanks for help 🙌🎉

Zdenko

[Leoyu]

Zdenko,

Blow-off function may depends on your tube connection setup:

If your blow-off air tube connected behind the vacuum valve, then you need to re-open the vacuum valve during blow-off time, then turn off both vacuum valve and blow-off valve. To do this, you can modify the Gcode command in Activates Blow-Off valve part.

[Zdenko Stanec]

Hi  Leoyu, 

Thanks for the replay,

This is my setup:

To simplify it (Fig_1) "random pic. from aliex.":

Actuating V1 I get a Vacuum on the nozzle tip, Actuating V2 does not work when I process the Job file and I can only actuate it manually so I know valves are working.

V2 is used to Blow the components of the nozzle tip.

Can someone help me understand what is the logic behind Blow-Off Valves in OpenPnP and how should they work?

I thought that Blow-Off Valves are actuated immediately when the component is positioned on PCB XYZ location after turning off the Vacuum Valves and Blow-Off Valves stay OPEN in Place Dwell time.

Fig_1:

Best regards,

Zdenko

[Lance Endres]

Hi Zdenko,

I think I have the same issue.  If I understand, you have set up the hardware and have tested it to know it is working manually.  Have you tested things from the machine controls to ensure OpenPnP can trigger them?

With all this working you would think that associating the nozzles with the blow-off actuator would be all that is required (same as the vacuum actuator).  I was never able to get this to work.  Like you, I expected the blow-off to work automatically like the vacuum but it seems to be ignored.  I finally resorted to writing scripts to actuate the blow-off.  From my perspective, these two controls (vacuum actuator and blow-off actuator on the nozzle) should behave the same but they do not seem to.  If I understand your post, you are having the same confusion.

[ma...@makr.zone]

Hi,

Looking at the source code. What may be the confusion is that the blow-off actuator is a Double actuator, not a Boolean actuator. Therefore you need to use the ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND, not the ACTUATE_BOOLEAN_COMMAND.

I guess the author (@tlan) of the blow-off actuation had a machine (Neoden4?) where one could set the strength for the blow-off puff?

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/pull/965

The level for the blow-off is set on the package:

_Mark

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[Juan-Antonio Søren E. Pedersen]

https://youtu.be/EiuvrRv302Q

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[Leoyu]

Zdenko,

Big machine with nice wring. For the "Fig_1" setup, yes you only need to control the blow off valve.

I am not sure about this part:  Blow-Off Valves stay OPEN in Place Dwell time

It is possible that the blow-off valves on-to-off time is independent from place dwll time, and the blow-off valves active time is quite short by default.

Last time(not use it now) I test the blow-off fuction, I insert about 100ms delay in the blow-off valve actuate command use “G4 Pxxx” Gcode line. You can have a try.

[Zdenko Stanec]

Hello,

@Lance, yes we have the same problem, Blow-Off valves can be controlled from the machine controls, but they are not working when the machine starts placing the components.

@Mark thanks for reaching out, this could definitely be an issue, I will go to my workshop and try this out now. 

On my machine, I have external small regulators for each nozzle so I can adjust manually how much air will be used when Blow-Off Valve is actuated, so basically for my use, I need simple ACTUATE_BOOLEAN_COMMAND, but I will try to set it up with ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND.

@Leoyu,  thanks, it is a nice machine 😊, I was thinking that the Blow-Off Valves time is controlled by Place Dwell time, but I am not sure if this is a case. If this is the case I have in mind to replace one Nozzle and to use it as a "Glue" dispenser, it would be nice to have this because "Glue could be then easily used as you need the pressure to get the "Glue" out of the cylinder, and "Vacuum" to get it back in so it does not drip. 😁🤔

Best regards,

Zdenko

[Lance A. Endres]

Thanks, Mark, this definitely seems like the missing piece of information.  I'll give it a try when I get a chance.

Zdenko, please report back after testing!  Also, more pictures of that machine, please!  :-) 

-Lance

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[Leoyu]

Zdenko,

Good idea on the "Glue" application! In fact you can totally control the  Blow-Off Valves active/deactive behave by Gcode in the  ACTUATE_BOOLEAN_COMMAND, even control any outputs on board.

By the way, I didn't notice the  ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND thing before until mark said, but can control the blow-off valve by Gcode in ACTUATE_BOOLEAN_COMMAND. You can have a test in both way and see the difference.

[ma...@makr.zone]

Thinking a bit more about this...

If you only have a On/Off control, the blow-off value on the package could still be useful. It could control the puff duration. So you would set the ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND like this:

M106 ; switch the puff valve on.
G4 P{DoubleValue} ; dwell for this time in ms
M107 ; switch the puff valve off.

Obviously with the correct M-commands you have configured.

Some controllers would instead need G4 S for seconds, instead of G4 P for milliseconds.

M106 ; switch the puff valve on.
G4 S{DoubleValue} ; dwell for this time in seconds
M107 ; switch the puff valve off.

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/G4

I expect that very short millisecond puff durations could effectively regulate the pressure/strength of the puff, as it is smoothed out trough the capacity of the tubing etc. (sort of "one-shot PWM"). Being executed on the controller side, the dwell time is probably very repeatable, i.e. real-time.

_Mark

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[Leoyu]

Mark,

This ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND solution looks good, it can setting the duration from GUI side, even different duration per component right?

In my previous test, only 100-200ms(depends on tube size and length) is enough, act like a "one-shot", but the duration time is fixed in Gcode, big components should need more quick shot.

[ma...@makr.zone]

> even different duration per component right?

Yes, more specifically per package (not per part).

_Mark

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[Zdenko Stanec]

Hello,

Reporting from the workshop. 😁

So I changed one Blow-Off valve to ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND and under Part Blow-Off Level I entered 1 to enable Blow-Off valve for this specific part.

In this ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND setup, my Vacuum Valve stays constantly ON for the specific nozzle if I put it like this:

_________________

M807 ; 
G4 P100 ; 
M806 ; 

_________________

I needed to add M812 to turn off the Vacuum Valve for this specific nozzle before Actuating Blow-Off Valve, and after that, it works:

_________________

M812;

M807 ; 
G4 P100 ; 
M806 ; 

________________

Place Dwell Time does not impact the Blow Off Valve Actuation Time,  Blow Off Valve stays Actuated depending on G4 P100 (100ms); 

@Mark, maybe you will get some ideas to make this somehow different. 😁

@lance here is the machine Link_1 Link_2 😊

Best regards,

Zdenko

[Lance A. Endres]

Wow, that's a nice machine, I might be in love. 😂😂😂 

Can I post these videos to our little Facebook group?  I think others would like to see this!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/smtwithopensource

-Lance

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[Zdenko Stanec]

Thanks Lance, sure no problem, you can post it. 😊

Here is a Video of Nozzle_2 Vacuum Valve and Blow-Off Valve working. Link

Best regards,

Zdenko

[ma...@makr.zone]

>Place Dwell Time does not impact the Blow Off Valve Actuation Time,  Blow Off Valve stays Actuated depending on G4 P100 (100ms); 

> @Mark, maybe you will get some ideas to make this somehow different. 😁

I do not understand what you are asking.

_Mark

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[Zdenko Stanec]

Hey Mark,

I am not asking anything, just mentioned this as In the beginning I was sure that Place Dwell Time will impact Blow Off time but it is not. 😊

I was thinking maybe you will have some other ideas for easier implementation of this for the future OpenPnP releases. 😊

I went to dinner and didn't test another option, if I put it like P{DoubleValue} in ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND

______________

M812;   turns off the Vaccum Valve

M807 ;  turns on the Blow-Off Valve
G4 P{DoubleValue}; time in ms Blow-Off valve is active
M806 ; turns off the Blow-Off Valve

_________________

I could set up a different time for each package, right? 

Because of the way I did it right now "P100", I will have the same time (100ms) on all packages.

Best regards,

Zdenko

[Darleep Singh]

Hello 

I am having same problem and if i check in my log the blow off dosent just work even after actuate double command could you please help me ?

[Zdenko Stanec]

Are you sure your Blow Off Actuator is working before  ACTUATE_DOUBLE_COMMAND setup?