OpenPnP controller suggestion please

[jbasia]

Hi ya'll,

I am planning to retrofit a Chinese PnP with OpenPnP and like to get some suggestion about affordable and available (seems many are not) controllers. 

The PnP has a few Nema 17 and smaller steppers. Comes with 2 nozzles, 2 cameras, just a drag feeder. 

I prefer a one-board controller with pluggable drivers (so they don't fry the controller, hopefully).

I don't know if I can really manage that task, so something cost effective will be nice. Aliexpress, eBay, Taobao etc

I hope I can get some hints.

[bert shivaan]

Duet is really good. Where are you located?

the mini has built in drivers, but it will not actually be an issue up to nema 17.

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[Ravi Ganesh]

You may want to use Arduino with grbl. Always available and affordable

Grbl

[Paul Gallagher]

Which Chinese machine do you have? I've got a Yucheng machine. I also considered making my own software for the machine, because they never update or do bug fixes. But be honest, the mechanical issues are not worth salvaging. Just improving the software won't fix the root issues.

[jbasia]

Thanks for the reply. I am in Hong Kong, so I look at option that do not have massive shipping cost. I see there is Duet2 from Makerbase MKS. It looks like it has (TMC) drivers on board. My current Pnp driver board got badly damaged by a blown driver. So I am a bit hesitant  with on board drivers, but maybe that isn't a problem with a more modern board design. Or?  So far everything is still fuzzy to me. 

I know I need 5 axle, but I am not aware of the actual OpenPnP hardware requirement and if it can work with all drivers. I have no issue with speed.
BTW, biggest stepper is Nema17 (but I better double check)

[jbasia]

I have a TVM802. It has a separate controller driver board. After getting (well, buying) a new driver board I learned that the controller is broken too (Z not responding with the new driver board). I don't want to spend more money on that poor design (leave alone their Win7 only strange software)  

[Paul Gallagher]

Its a very similar design to mine. Its not worth using. Just build a machine with a decent and stronger structure. You can probably re-use the stepper motors and amps, but the slider structure is not adequate for precision. Mine uses linear guides, not round bearings, but the supporting structure is non-existent. They literally have the 50 cm long linear rails unsupported.

[jbasia]

You have a D600 or something like that, right? Looks like a twin of my TVM802. I think mechanically it's ok for me. I don't have high accuracy or speed requirements. Down to 0805 is fine for me. My aim is to keep everything and just change the electronics. Maybe later I will look at the (really poor) feeders and change something with them. But first I need a working machine ;-)

[Paul Gallagher]

I think its a 600, but was customized for me. If you only have 0805 then it would work fine. Mine just isn't reliable on 0402. The main problem is the feeders. They are very jerky and throw components too often. No way to adjust the timing. I've thought about just making better feeders, but almost anything I do requires some software changes, which is impossible. They have not done any updates on the software since at least 2019, and no plans for more. I suspect they are using pirated software from whoever they copied the machine from, so are unable to make updates themselves. The machine is ok for making prototypes, or maybe 100 PCB per day max. But it will never be able to keep up with my requirements later. I really do like to produce my own PCB, as long as the quality is good. I had lots of issues with factory assembled PCB. They make mistakes, and then hand repair, etc. Doing myself, I can test the first piece and random test during production to reduce risk.

[tianl...@gmail.com]

Your requirements are so high, you can consider using a second-hand Yamaha pneumatic feeder for $15 each. Just buy another $100 air compressor. Its precision and speed are never achievable by DIY.

---Original---

From: "Paul Gallagher"<pdgall...@gmail.com>

Date: Sun, Nov 27, 2022 12:07 PM

To: "OpenPnP"<ope...@googlegroups.com>;

Subject: [OpenPnP] Re: OpenPnP controller suggestion please

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[Paul Gallagher]

Yes I've thought about just using used pneumatic feeders, but they also have issues with 0402 components. That's why they are available so cheap, used. Everyone upgrading to electronic feeders. As for achieving this accuracy by DIY, its not that difficult really. Just takes careful planning and good design. I'm a very experienced mechanical engineer, so this is not a big challenge. Just not sure I want to invest the time into it. I currently mass produce a product that does a similar positioning thing. It will move at 20mm per second, 10 kg force and 0.05 accuracy. And its battery powered.

[jbasia]

So, back on topic, if that's ok. I am still a bit confused by that controller issue. Is that correct: as long as the controller can a run suitable firmware, like Marlin I can use OpenPnP to run everything. I am looking at a Makerbase MKS Monster8 (Marlin) with pluggable TMC2209 drivers and wonder if that can do? But in the OpenPnP it said Marlin is somehow difficult and Duet2 or Duet3 is a better (simpler?) option. I prefer simpler.
Here is one that looks like Duet > https://wiki.fysetc.com/BIG-DIPPER/ with RR firmware, not pluggable drivers though.

[Paul Gallagher]

I'm also very unclear how open Pnp works. Are the steppers controlled by the PC, or do you use a controller board, like the Marlin used for 3d printing? The open PnP just sends G codes to the controller board?

[Mark]

> I'm also very unclear how open Pnp works. Are the steppers controlled by the PC, or do you use a controller board, like the Marlin used for 3d printing?

The latter.

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Setup-and-Calibration_Driver-Setup

_Mark

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[Mark]

> So, back on topic, if that's ok.

Yeah, please everybody this is not a chat board, we have topics here. Please open a new thread if you have a new unrelated idea/question/hint.

Back to topic: You best look here for the best supported controllers and firmwares:

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares

_Mark

On 27.11.2022 06:50, jbasia wrote:

So, back on topic, if that's ok. I am still a bit confused by that controller issue. Is that correct: as long as the controller can a run suitable firmware, like Marlin I can use OpenPnP to run everything. I am looking at a Makerbase MKS Monster8 (Marlin) with pluggable TMC2209 drivers and wonder if that can do? But in the OpenPnP it said Marlin is somehow difficult and Duet2 or Duet3 is a better (simpler?) option. I prefer simpler.

Here is one that looks like Duet > https://wiki.fysetc.com/BIG-DIPPER/ with RR firmware, not pluggable drivers though. --

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[jbasia]

On Sunday, 27 November 2022 at 17:01:15 UTC+8 ****@makr.zone wrote:

> So, back on topic, if that's ok.

Yeah, please everybody this is not a chat board, we have topics here. 

No worries for me. Still interesting to read other peoples problems with "my" machine. 

 

Back to topic: You best look here for the best supported controllers and firmwares:

https://github.com/openpnp/openpnp/wiki/Motion-Controller-Firmwares

I am aware of that page. So I can use any Duet, Smoothie, Marlin, TinyG controller that fall inside that criteria? 

I look at two boards right now: 

Marlin  > MKS Monster8

https://github.com/makerbase-mks/MKS-Monster8  (needs plug in TMC drivers I guess)

Duet > https://github.com/FYSETC/FYSETC-BIG_DIPPER  (TMC driver on board)

TinyG > seems rather high end.

Smoothie > seems only clones are available.

Those two are similar priced. Wondering if they are suitable, and which is better for a beginner? 

 

[jbasia]

I am back to where my defunct PicknPlace. I need to correct one detail:

The PnP has actually three Nema 23 stepper (two ~57mm long, one ~90mm). The broken driver was a A3977. I am aware that Nema 23 is just a size spec. 

I am still looking for controller suggestions.

[Jarosław Karwik]

I can show you my upgrade of Charmhigh 36VA

Original ( up) and mine (down)

1:1 conversion of connectors. The motor controllers are on separate boards ( I plan to keep the original ones )

The controller contains a CPU board plugged into machine specific board.

In the machine

This is an unlikely option for you as my controller, while 95% finished, may require a bit more of knowledge and additional design work to adapt for your machine.

But I may be wrong :-) 

Let me know if you are interested. You would need to be able to build it - at least machine specific board because the core board can be replaced with STM Discovery kit for STM32H7 family.

See https://github.com/jarekkt/UniController

[jbasia]

Interesting. What you did is quite a challenge. I want to kick the China electronics completely out. I have a new driver board, but something on the controller board (STM...) also got damaged and Z does not respond at all (but has 24Vdc power). Maybe I slould have a close look at the controller board and check for a blown diode or something. Of course I have no circuit diagram or anything.

[dc42]

Pluggable drivers blow frequently, because they are not adequately heatsinked, the pin header connections are inadequate for high motor currents, and the path to the capacitor that absorbs back emf from the motor is too long. Installed properly, built-in drivers are much more reliable. See https://youtu.be/uyWolKFzb-A.

Please note, clone Duet boards are typically constructed to lower standards than genuine Duet boards, for example they often use 1oz copper on the top and bottom planes instead of the 2oz copper that genuine Duets use to provide better heatsinking of stepper drivers and mosfets. Also, I suggest you look at the Duet 3 range, because the Duet 2 boards are running out of available flash memory and RAM, so they won't benefit from some future firmware enhancements; and Duet 2 boards don't support CAN bus expansion.

[jbasia]

Meanwhile I bought a Fysetc Spider but so far does not move a stepper one bit. I fail at loading Marlin. It can also do Klipper and Reprap though. Anyway, I am considering dumping it (well, resell cheap) - and getting a Bigtreetech SKR v1.4 Turbo

It's not the latest board, but has  the LPC1769 processor - means it may run Smoothieware.

https://biqu.equipment/products/bigtreetech-skr-v1-4-skr-v1-4-turbo-control-board?_pos=1&_sid=148b53542&_ss=r&variant=40048265822306

Would that be a good option?