I also feel that the line-item entry—especially the R&R Form—is a special case that justifies a special solution. OpenLMIS v3 has already chosen solution #3 for the R&R Form so far (from v3.0.0 to v3.3.0). I believe stakeholders and end-users are counting on that current behavior. The validation of those R&R Forms is a very detailed, important feature, and making any changes to it would require Product Committee involvement too.
As you evaluate how to handle errors consistently, I suggest looking at the other table forms separately from the R&R Form, and also look at non-form error handling (eg, filter, search, etc). That way if you are proposing changes, everyone can understand what parts of the system you would change.
I’m sorry I missed the Technical Committee (I have a conflicting commitment), but thanks for allowing me to share input.
-Brandon
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Nikodem,
Unfortunately I’m still a bit confused. I too share the concern that Brandon voiced regarding the R&R product grid table.
Could you clarify if you are proposing that the decision made on the pattern for “table forms” impacts the R&R product grid table attached? I was confused when you stated that the Requisition View is a table form since that does not have any inputs or error messages.
If there is any impact on the R&R product grid, we cannot move forward with choosing a table form error pattern without discussing with the Product Committee. We must propose all UI changes since it will impact current implementations of OpenLMIS v3 in Malawi. It would be great if you could pull together the options and clear examples and present at the next PC to ensure we have the whole communities input. I know it might feel arduous to also present to the PC but I do think this will impact the user experience enough that it is important to consider the PC’s perspective.
Thank you for pulling this proposal together and clarifying what the impact is. Let me know if you have any questions about what I’m asking for in terms of raising to the PC.
Thanks,
Mary Jo
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Thanks for the clarification Nikodem, now I understand better.
For line item entry only then:
I still think I favor option #3, identify errors in a line item only after some work has been done in the line item, and then you shift away from it. As well (as always) as identifying all errors when attempting to submit the entries. I recognize this is one of the hardest options and also that it’s likely personal preference - that is I prefer a UX that has fewer visual warnings as I’m working on an item, and instead prefer those visual warnings to be raised after I think I’m done: I shift to another line item or I click a button that is me indicating I’m done. I also recognize this isn’t what the Requisition screen does (option #2), as currently it raises those visual indicators within the line item I’m working on as soon as I start working on the line item and something isn’t right.
Between those two options my preference as I said is #3, however the UX between the two is so small that I can’t say I’d encourage investing significant effort in it. Using option #2 with a smaller LOE seems fine by me.
Do we have an approach to finding errors across line items? I can imagine as we get into budgets for Requisitions we’ll have the need. Would that change the LOE for anything here?
Best,Josh
On Jun 4, 2018, at 2:54 PM, Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com> wrote:
Yes, if we decide to pick a different approach than the one we're already using for product grid, this changes will also affect the requisition product grid. The list of screens that will be affected by this is as follows:
- View Proof of Delivery (#!/pod/id)
- View Requisition (#!/requisition/id)
- View Shipment (#!/orders/id)
- Issue (#!/stockmangement/issue/id)
- Receive (#!/stockmangement/receive/id)
- Physical Inventory (#!/physicalInventory/id)
- Adjustments (#!/adjustment/id)
Hopefully I didn't miss any screen.
Best regards,Nikodem
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Josh,
To clarify, are you talking about within a lineItem having error messages between to cells/fields within a LineItem? If so, we currently have that behavior/need within the requisition product grid as cells within one lineItem calculate off each other.
Nikodem,
I must admit that I’m still a bit confused and I want to make sure I’m clear on what you are proposing and the impact on the current system behavior. After reading this thread and the wiki, I’m still confused. Would you be willing to review the following and make sure I didn’t misunderstand your proposal. If it is correct, we will need to bring this to the Product Committee. I suggest updating your current wiki to clearly state 1. The current state, 2. The proposed options and 3. The impact. You could use the table I created below.
Below I’ve started to lay out a summarized view, but I still have open questions to you in red.
Current behavior
Screens are inconsistent. The following proposal is specifically looking at “Table Forms”. A table form is any table that has any inputs inside of the table or ‘lineItem entries’. Nikodem, to clarify does this include tables which don’t have editable fields/cells but have a column with action buttons? That’s not clear to me.
Proposed Options
The following are the 4 options are for Table forms: Nikodem, it would be useful to see a table like this
# |
Option |
Level of Effort |
User Benefit |
Performance Impact Will the option slow down the experience for the user on 2G? |
Screens which would change if this option is selected. |
1 |
Mimic what the other forms do. |
Nikodem, could you clarify what this option is? Mimic which form? |
Tiny? |
|
|
|
2 |
Make errors appear after the fields has been touched. |
|
|
|
|
3 |
Make errors appear after we leave (focus on something outside) the table row. |
|
When fields within a lineItem are dependent on each other the error won’t show until they focus away from the LineItem (row) |
|
|
|||
4 |
Same as 3, but also highlight the table header. |
|
|
|
|
Depending on the option, the following screens may be impacted. See the above table for details on which would change based on the option.
Perhaps we can schedule a call if it would be easier to connect that way. I just want to make sure I’m understanding your proposal and which options will impact which screens. Thank you again for pulling this together and hopefully we can clarify this soon and I can send across to the PC.
Thanks,
Mary Jo
From: Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:16 AM
To: Josh Zamor <josh....@villagereach.org>
Cc: Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.ko...@villagereach.org>, OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [openlmis-dev] Re: Error behavior on the table forms
Thanks for the feedback!
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Josh,
As I mentioned, I’m still confused on what is being proposed and the impact of the current requisition product grid error behavior. It is my understanding, after slacking with Nikodem, that based on the decision made there will be impacts on the requisition product grid (Nikodem refers to it as the View Requisition screen).
Given that, I stand by my request to have this proposal brought to the PC due to its impact on current implementations. If we were suggesting to use the View Requisition table form as the standard and make other screens align, then I don’t think it would be necessary.
Mary Jo
Nikodem, to clarify does this include tables which don’t have editable fields/cells but have a column with action buttons? That’s not clear to me.
Nikodem, could you clarify what this option is? Mimic which form?
Question: why is this impacted if the table doesn’t have any inputs? I only see action buttons. Or are you referring to the editable proof of delivery screen?
Question: why is this impacted if the table doesn’t have any inputs? I only see action buttons. Or are you referring to the editable requisition screen (aka requisition product grid)?
Question: do you mean View Orders? Why is this impacted if the table doesn’t have any inputs? I only see action buttons. Or are you referring to the editable shipment (aka the fulfill orders table)?
What about Fulfill Orders?
Should we be including the “batch approval” of requisitions?
Should we be including the “batch approval” of requisitions?
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Nikodem,
I appreciate your initiative to move things forward. My apologies of the delay on getting this out to the PC. Our last meeting was filled up with an update from TZ and we didn’t have time. We can plan to bring it up on the upcoming meeting of July 3rd. Would you be available to join the call to provide an overview of the options? I want to ensure option 3 works for everyone since it will be a change to the current behavior on the View Requisition (product grid) which is currently in production in Malawi. I think it would be a welcomed change since right now errors show up instantly.
Thanks,
Mary Jo
From: Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
Date: Monday, June 25, 2018 at 2:55 AM
To: Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.ko...@villagereach.org>
Cc: Josh Zamor <josh....@villagereach.org>, OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [openlmis-dev] Error behavior on the table forms
Hello everyone,
- View Proof of Delivery
- View Requisition
- View Shipment
- Issue, Receive, Physical Inventory, Adjustments
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Nikodem,
I appreciate your initiative to move things forward. My apologies of the delay on getting this out to the PC. Our last meeting was filled up with an update from TZ and we didn’t have time. We can plan to bring it up on the upcoming meeting of July 3rd. Would you be available to join the call to provide an overview of the options? I want to ensure option 3 works for everyone since it will be a change to the current behavior on the View Requisition (product grid) which is currently in production in Malawi. I think it would be a welcomed change since right now errors show up instantly.
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How dare you! Keep such good news from us. Just kidding, congrats on the upcoming date!
A clerical note: when did we decide on option 3? I stated a preference for it, and I still have it, however I noted that the increased LOE probably wouldn't make it worth it over option 2. If in addition choosing option 3 means a rubber stamp from the product committee is needed to change the UX, then perhaps we really should just move forward with option 2 to get consistency. I'm okay if option 3 isn't taken up - the UX of option 2 is already accepted afaik.
Congrats Nikodem!
Best,
Josh
> On Jun 25, 2018, at 10:34 PM, Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mary Jo,
>
> unfortunately, I'm out of the office from 27th July to 8th August due to my wedding. Are we OK with postponing the presentation or should I find someone to present in my stead?
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org<mailto:maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org>> wrote:
> Nikodem,
>
> I appreciate your initiative to move things forward. My apologies of the delay on getting this out to the PC. Our last meeting was filled up with an update from TZ and we didn’t have time. We can plan to bring it up on the upcoming meeting of July 3rd. Would you be available to join the call to provide an overview of the options? I want to ensure option 3 works for everyone since it will be a change to the current behavior on the View Requisition (product grid) which is currently in production in Malawi. I think it would be a welcomed change since right now errors show up instantly.
>
> Thanks,
> Mary Jo
>
> From: Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngraczewski@soldevelo.com>>
> Date: Monday, June 25, 2018 at 2:55 AM
> To: Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org<mailto:maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org>>
> Cc: Josh Zamor <josh....@villagereach.org<mailto:josh.zamor@villagereach.org>>, OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:openlmis-dev@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: [openlmis-dev] Error behavior on the table forms
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> since there wasn't any arguments against using the approach #3, I will start writing tickets for updating the screens with this approach.
>
> Here's a list of the affected screens:
>
> * View Requisition (Product Grid)
> * Issue
> * Receive
> * Physical Inventory
> * Adjustments
> If there are any questions or different preferences, please let me know.
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Josh Zamor <josh....@villagereach.org<mailto:josh.zamor@villagereach.org>> wrote:
> Thanks for the clarification Nikodem, now I understand better.
>
> For line item entry only then:
>
> I still think I favor option #3, identify errors in a line item only after some work has been done in the line item, and then you shift away from it. As well (as always) as identifying all errors when attempting to submit the entries. I recognize this is one of the hardest options and also that it’s likely personal preference - that is I prefer a UX that has fewer visual warnings as I’m working on an item, and instead prefer those visual warnings to be raised after I think I’m done: I shift to another line item or I click a button that is me indicating I’m done. I also recognize this isn’t what the Requisition screen does (option #2), as currently it raises those visual indicators within the line item I’m working on as soon as I start working on the line item and something isn’t right.
>
> Between those two options my preference as I said is #3, however the UX between the two is so small that I can’t say I’d encourage investing significant effort in it. Using option #2 with a smaller LOE seems fine by me.
>
> Do we have an approach to finding errors across line items? I can imagine as we get into budgets for Requisitions we’ll have the need. Would that change the LOE for anything here?
>
> Best,
> Josh
>
> On Jun 4, 2018, at 2:54 PM, Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngraczewski@soldevelo.com>> wrote:
>
> Yes, if we decide to pick a different approach than the one we're already using for product grid, this changes will also affect the requisition product grid. The list of screens that will be affected by this is as follows:
>
> * View Proof of Delivery (#!/pod/id)
> * View Requisition (#!/requisition/id)
> * View Shipment (#!/orders/id)
> * Issue (#!/stockmangement/issue/id)
> * Receive (#!/stockmangement/receive/id)
> * Physical Inventory (#!/physicalInventory/id)
> * Adjustments (#!/adjustment/id)
> Hopefully I didn't miss any screen.
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:39 PM, Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org<mailto:maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org>> wrote:
> Nikodem,
> Unfortunately I’m still a bit confused. I too share the concern that Brandon voiced regarding the R&R product grid table.
>
> Could you clarify if you are proposing that the decision made on the pattern for “table forms” impacts the R&R product grid table attached? I was confused when you stated that the Requisition View is a table form since that does not have any inputs or error messages.
>
> If there is any impact on the R&R product grid, we cannot move forward with choosing a table form error pattern without discussing with the Product Committee. We must propose all UI changes since it will impact current implementations of OpenLMIS v3 in Malawi. It would be great if you could pull together the options and clear examples and present at the next PC to ensure we have the whole communities input. I know it might feel arduous to also present to the PC but I do think this will impact the user experience enough that it is important to consider the PC’s perspective.
>
> Thank you for pulling this proposal together and clarifying what the impact is. Let me know if you have any questions about what I’m asking for in terms of raising to the PC.
>
> Thanks,
> Mary Jo
>
> From: OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:openlmis-dev@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngraczewski@soldevelo.com>>
> Date: Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 11:10 AM
> To: Brandon Bowersox-Johnson <brandon.bowersox-johnson@villagereach.org<mailto:brandon.bowersox-johnson@villagereach.org>>
> Cc: OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:openlmis-dev@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: [openlmis-dev] Re: Error behavior on the table forms
>
> I might have not expressed myself well enough if it comes to the distinction between table and regular forms, for which I'm sorry.
>
> To clarify, by table form I mean any table that has any inputs inside (Requisition View, Proof of Delivery View, Shipment View and Stock Management Adjustment, Receive, Issue and Physical Inventory screens). Line item entry is the best phrase to describe it (thanks Josh!).
>
> Everything that doesn't reside directly inside a table (table filters, facility/program select, searches etc) should be considered a standard form.
>
> The main purpose of this thread is to choose the best approach for table forms as we're using three different approaches to them across the system. The standard forms are already well documented and consistent (I couldn't find a single form, which wouldn't work the we expect it to). I agree with Josh on that we want to have two different approaches here.
>
> I hope that clarifies any confusion I might have introduced.
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
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Between those two options my preference as I said is #3, however the UX between the two is so small that I can’t say I’d encourage investing significant effort in it. Using option #2 with a smaller LOE seems fine by me.
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> ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org<mailto:maryjo.kochen...@villagereach.org>> wrote:
> Nikodem,
>
> I appreciate your initiative to move things forward. My apologies of the delay on getting this out to the PC. Our last meeting was filled up with an update from TZ and we didn’t have time. We can plan to bring it up on the upcoming meeting of July 3rd. Would you be available to join the call to provide an overview of the options? I want to ensure option 3 works for everyone since it will be a change to the current behavior on the View Requisition (product grid) which is currently in production in Malawi. I think it would be a welcomed change since right now errors show up instantly.
>
> Thanks,
> Mary Jo
>
> From: Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>>
> Date: Monday, June 25, 2018 at 2:55 AM
> To: Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org<mailto:maryjo.kochen...@villagereach.org>>
> Cc: Josh Zamor <josh....@villagereach.org<mailto:josh.zamor@villagereach.org>>, OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:openlmis-dev@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: [openlmis-dev] Error behavior on the table forms
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> since there wasn't any arguments against using the approach #3, I will start writing tickets for updating the screens with this approach.
>
> Here's a list of the affected screens:
>
> * View Requisition (Product Grid)
> * Issue
> * Receive
> * Physical Inventory
> * Adjustments
> If there are any questions or different preferences, please let me know.
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
> ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>> wrote:
> Hi Mary Jo,
>
> ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
> ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Josh Zamor <josh....@villagereach.org<mailto:josh.zamor@villagereach.org>> wrote:
> Thanks for the clarification Nikodem, now I understand better.
>
> For line item entry only then:
>
> I still think I favor option #3, identify errors in a line item only after some work has been done in the line item, and then you shift away from it. As well (as always) as identifying all errors when attempting to submit the entries. I recognize this is one of the hardest options and also that it’s likely personal preference - that is I prefer a UX that has fewer visual warnings as I’m working on an item, and instead prefer those visual warnings to be raised after I think I’m done: I shift to another line item or I click a button that is me indicating I’m done. I also recognize this isn’t what the Requisition screen does (option #2), as currently it raises those visual indicators within the line item I’m working on as soon as I start working on the line item and something isn’t right.
>
> Between those two options my preference as I said is #3, however the UX between the two is so small that I can’t say I’d encourage investing significant effort in it. Using option #2 with a smaller LOE seems fine by me.
>
> Do we have an approach to finding errors across line items? I can imagine as we get into budgets for Requisitions we’ll have the need. Would that change the LOE for anything here?
>
> Best,
> Josh
>
> On Jun 4, 2018, at 2:54 PM, Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>> wrote:
>
> Yes, if we decide to pick a different approach than the one we're already using for product grid, this changes will also affect the requisition product grid. The list of screens that will be affected by this is as follows:
>
> * View Proof of Delivery (#!/pod/id)
> * View Requisition (#!/requisition/id)
> * View Shipment (#!/orders/id)
> * Issue (#!/stockmangement/issue/id)
> * Receive (#!/stockmangement/receive/id)
> * Physical Inventory (#!/physicalInventory/id)
> * Adjustments (#!/adjustment/id)
> Hopefully I didn't miss any screen.
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
> ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 8:39 PM, Mary Jo Kochendorfer <maryjo.kochendorfer@villagereach.org<mailto:maryjo.kochen...@villagereach.org>> wrote:
> Nikodem,
> Unfortunately I’m still a bit confused. I too share the concern that Brandon voiced regarding the R&R product grid table.
>
> Could you clarify if you are proposing that the decision made on the pattern for “table forms” impacts the R&R product grid table attached? I was confused when you stated that the Requisition View is a table form since that does not have any inputs or error messages.
>
> If there is any impact on the R&R product grid, we cannot move forward with choosing a table form error pattern without discussing with the Product Committee. We must propose all UI changes since it will impact current implementations of OpenLMIS v3 in Malawi. It would be great if you could pull together the options and clear examples and present at the next PC to ensure we have the whole communities input. I know it might feel arduous to also present to the PC but I do think this will impact the user experience enough that it is important to consider the PC’s perspective.
>
> Thank you for pulling this proposal together and clarifying what the impact is. Let me know if you have any questions about what I’m asking for in terms of raising to the PC.
>
> Thanks,
> Mary Jo
>
> From: OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:openlmis-dev@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Nikodem Graczewski <ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>>
> Date: Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 11:10 AM
> To: Brandon Bowersox-Johnson <brandon.bowersox-johnson@villagereach.org<mailto:brandon.bowersox-johnson@villagereach.org>>
> Cc: OpenLMIS Dev <openlm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:openlmis-dev@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: [openlmis-dev] Re: Error behavior on the table forms
>
> I might have not expressed myself well enough if it comes to the distinction between table and regular forms, for which I'm sorry.
>
> To clarify, by table form I mean any table that has any inputs inside (Requisition View, Proof of Delivery View, Shipment View and Stock Management Adjustment, Receive, Issue and Physical Inventory screens). Line item entry is the best phrase to describe it (thanks Josh!).
>
> Everything that doesn't reside directly inside a table (table filters, facility/program select, searches etc) should be considered a standard form.
>
> The main purpose of this thread is to choose the best approach for table forms as we're using three different approaches to them across the system. The standard forms are already well documented and consistent (I couldn't find a single form, which wouldn't work the we expect it to). I agree with Josh on that we want to have two different approaches here.
>
> I hope that clarifies any confusion I might have introduced.
>
> Best regards,
> Nikodem
>
> Nikodem Graczewski
> Software Developer
> ngrac...@soldevelo.com<mailto:ngrac...@soldevelo.com>
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