Cost, is this as good as it gets?

[Rick C]

I was musing on the issues of installing level 2 charging and how both the Tesla HPWC and a more modest commercial charger are about the same $500 price tag without consideration of the much higher current and better functionality of the Tesla unit.  A ClipperCreek unit provides 30 amps I believe.  The Tesla unit can provide as much as 80 amps to one EV or two or three EVs can be connected on the same circuit to share the total current available between several EVs charging at once. 

I don't recall the exact price of the EVSE, but I think it is only moderately less expensive.  So it would appear the cost of these units is driven by the component prices. 

Maybe this has been listed somewhere before, but I'm wondering if there is a cost breakdown of the major cost components? 

[Nuno Leitao]

For me the best place to compare costs is in the store where I would buy.

https://store.openevse.com/collections/all-products 

 

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Cumprimentos   /   Kind Regards  /  Met vriendelijke groeten / Sincères amitiés
Nuno Leitão

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[Rick C]

These are retail prices and not broken down fully.  I'm curious to have an idea of the costs rather than the prices.  For example, the output cable is $160.  That seems like a very large proportion of the total $500 price tag.  I'm thinking it gets a lot more markup when sold separately.  Same with a number of other pieces. 

If everyone is charging about the same price, it would seem there is not a lot of fat, but I can't really tell where the money goes. 

I know the relay is not an expensive item, the output cable does seem to be a significant part of the cost.  The electronics seem to be very simple, so it is hard to picture that being a large share of the costs. 

Just wondering if there are particular components that drive the price. 

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  Rick C.

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On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 1:34:43 AM UTC-4, Nuno Leitao wrote:

For me the best place to compare costs is in the store where I would buy.

https://store.openevse.com/collections/all-products 

 

-----

Cumprimentos   /   Kind Regards  /  Met vriendelijke groeten / Sincères amitiés
Nuno Leitão

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 2:58 AM Rick C <gnuarm.de...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was musing on the issues of installing level 2 charging and how both the Tesla HPWC and a more modest commercial charger are about the same $500 price tag without consideration of the much higher current and better functionality of the Tesla unit.  A ClipperCreek unit provides 30 amps I believe.  The Tesla unit can provide as much as 80 amps to one EV or two or three EVs can be connected on the same circuit to share the total current available between several EVs charging at once. 

I don't recall the exact price of the EVSE, but I think it is only moderately less expensive.  So it would appear the cost of these units is driven by the component prices. 

Maybe this has been listed somewhere before, but I'm wondering if there is a cost breakdown of the major cost components? 

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[Nuno Leitao]

I'm sorry to say it again but it is what it is. I have to see the prices at which I can buy; this will be my cost.

When I assembled my evse I also got to the conclusion that I can save money if I would buy already done, but because I already had some stuff I thought to use what I had. In the end I spend about the same money has if I has bought the set already assembled and ready to go. Their profit? The box and relay; that's what I already had home.

If you buy 100 or 1000 then I believe you can get it lower; but don't think it will get 20% less. 

Imagine all the components have a markup price with 20% profit, maybe the set has 15% because it's a higher price altogether.

Indeed the cable is an expensive part. Indeed the electronics are a cheap part, in terms of component value, but you have to account the trouble and hours it took to make this parts to existance. Bread must go to the table.

Disclaimer: I say this but I'm in any way related to the developers, never met them or even change emails with them.

It the capitalist world where we live and I love it 🙂

Nuno

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[EV@TucsonEV]

Hi,

 

The cost of my TucsonEV-SE (which is 30A capable, can be set to 15, 20 or 30A and came with a 20ft 10AWG cord or any length you wanted since I made up the cable and plug) parts to me was just under $250 (does not include pre-production or assembly time). This was for a test run of 15 unit, all of which sold. I sold them for about $500 - $600, which I figured was a good profit for me. I stopped manufacturing them because I just didn’t have the web presence like OpenEVSE and other manufactures had.

 

Remember this was all done by me, I contracted with people for certain items, some metal, the PCB, but the rest was all assembled by me. So if I, an individual can manufacture a 30A EVSE for $300 for parts only, think of what the major manufactures costs are when they order in the 1000’s and think of the profit they are making.

 

Think also how the EV manufactures (other than Tesla) have screwed their customers by not supplying networked charging stations and HV capable charging systems in their EV’s.

 

Best regards,

 

Rush Dougherty

www.TucsonEV.com

 

Want 2000 miles free supercharging when

you buy your Tesla, use my Tesla referral

https://ts.la/rush40683

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

[Rick C]

You seem to be addressing the openEVSE product.  I'm talking about the wider EVSE market. 

I'm not looking to buy or build an EVSE.  My car comes with a cable I simply plug in.  I'm looking at this in the same way various sources will do a teardown of a new iPhone to examine the internal design and costs. 

BTW, the electronics cost does not need to factor in design costs forever and ever.  As the number of units sold increases eventually that cost is paid for.  In competition the non-recurring costs are amortized over the lifetime production.  I expect ClipperCreek has sold 10s or 100s of thousands of their units.  In the end it comes down to component costs and assembly costs with some percentage overhead for sales, distribution, etc. 

Even so, I'm not looking for a lowest price, I'm looking for information on what components drive the end price.  Maybe I'll write ClipperCreek.  I expect their unit is very similar to the openEVSE unit. 

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  Rick C.

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On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 2:15:56 PM UTC-4, Nuno Leitao wrote:

I'm sorry to say it again but it is what it is. I have to see the prices at which I can buy; this will be my cost.

When I assembled my evse I also got to the conclusion that I can save money if I would buy already done, but because I already had some stuff I thought to use what I had. In the end I spend about the same money has if I has bought the set already assembled and ready to go. Their profit? The box and relay; that's what I already had home.

If you buy 100 or 1000 then I believe you can get it lower; but don't think it will get 20% less. 

Imagine all the components have a markup price with 20% profit, maybe the set has 15% because it's a higher price altogether.

Indeed the cable is an expensive part. Indeed the electronics are a cheap part, in terms of component value, but you have to account the trouble and hours it took to make this parts to existance. Bread must go to the table.

Disclaimer: I say this but I'm in any way related to the developers, never met them or even change emails with them.

It the capitalist world where we live and I love it 🙂

Nuno

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openevse/7778801a-8315-421e-9217-10df692cedcc%40googlegroups.com.

[Rick C]

Hi,

I'm looking for insight on which components are the big dollar items and perhaps why.   Of the things you bought, which were the most expensive, driving the end price? 

I know 30-40 amp relays are not very expensive while the output cable is.  Seems to me the controller board should be inexpensive and in fact there should be off the shelf items available that will do the job.  Was this a custom design for your device?

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  Rick C.

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[chris1howell .]

The drivers of cost are:

Electronics power supplies, controller, display, WiFi ~$125

Cable @ 10k feet $2-$3 a foot or ~$75

J1772 plug/pins after shipping and duties ~$50

Enclosure, mounting plate, hardware ~$40

Relay $15 

Harnesses, glands, ground block ~$20

After labor, packaging, marketplace fees (Amazon takes 15%), credit fees of 2-3% $500 stations are not unreasonable.

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[Rick C]

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 4:49:49 PM UTC-4, Chris wrote:

The drivers of cost are:

Electronics power supplies, controller, display, WiFi ~$125

Cable @ 10k feet $2-$3 a foot or ~$75

J1772 plug/pins after shipping and duties ~$50

Enclosure, mounting plate, hardware ~$40

Relay $15 

Harnesses, glands, ground block ~$20

After labor, packaging, marketplace fees (Amazon takes 15%), credit fees of 2-3% $500 stations are not unreasonable.

Ok, so it appears the two cost drivers are the output cable with connector and the electronics.  To be honest I'm a bit surprised at the cost of the electronics.  I suppose this is a result of low volume.  I think once before you shared the cost of the power supply and I was surprised by it.  They are often not terribly expensive, especially considering the low current required here I think.  The relay is run from 12 VDC or 120/240 VAC? 

I seem to recall you said there was a custom board for the misc electronics, but I don't recall if the processor was on that board or if it was a module you bought and mounted. 

Still, even if $50 were trimmed from the electronics, the overall cost won't come down much.  If the unit is made for indoor use only and the electronics were made in one assembly, the cost of the enclosure were optimized for volume production along with corresponding improvements in the J1772 connector and misc parts, I would think the total figure could be reduced from $300 to $200.  Not sure how much to bump that back up when selling. 

I guess the question is, even with all the present interest in EVs, how to get the volumes up to bring down the price.

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  Rick C.

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