sound hole reinforcement ring

[gilber...@gmail.com]

I'm thinking about using a reinforcement ring around the soundhole rather than popsicle stick bracing. I've got a top where the rosette channel is on the thin side and I am thinking that it might benefit from the extra reinforcement. Sitka top, OM size, with rosette a little over 1/2" wide. 

Anybody have experience with these or tips on building/installing them?

[Rich]

I always use a reinforcing ring. I run the grain the same as bracing and try to keep inner edgr ~4mm from sound hole. Otherwise people can see it.

Rich

[Kris Young]

I always use one too. I’ve been making them out of 1/16 thick Richlite. You can see an example on my instagram. 

- Kris

On Feb 18, 2023, at 6:44 AM, 'Rich' via Robert O'Brien Guitar Building Forum <obrien...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I always use a reinforcing ring. I run the grain the same as bracing and try to keep inner edgr ~4mm from sound hole. Otherwise people can see it.

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[JohnParchem]

Following the Gore/Gillet books I use a reinforcing ring on my classical guitars. Right before routing out the sound hole with the rosette installed and the top thicknesses to my target I glue the sound hole ring (with only  the same 1/4" hole in the center I use for routing the rosette and sound hole). Then I route both the sound hole and the patch very close to all the way through (keeps the router index attached to the top). The waste of the sound hole and the ring drops out with a light sanding of the back of the sound hole ring in my drum sander. I use a chisel to bevel the ring back from the edge of the sound hole.

[Stephen Foss]

Gilbert,

Ass-u-ming your talking about a steel string. I have done something similar. Instead of a ring, I filled the space between the upper X and the tranverse brace. To make it easier to get the 'second' soundhole to be perfect and just a bit larger diameter, I will NOT cut out the real soundhole, but just leave the 3/16th hole in the center (roasette already installed). Brace the top as usual, then fit (not glue) the doubler inbetween the upper X and the tranverse brace. This allows me to drill the hole in the center of the doubler.  Remove it, finish routing both the soundholes, then glue it in. It makes the upper bout very stiff and doesn't seem to affect the 'beach front property' below the X.

If you are talking about a classical, I use a 'donut'. Once the center holes are drilled, then I'll rout the soundhole halfway through the top from the inside, doing the same for the donut, but from the opposite direction. This creates a channel for each soundhole that, once glued, is hidden inside the two. After gluing (using the 3/16th hole for alignment), then finish the routing from the outside of each face. Tada.

It all sounds more complicated than it really is.

Steve

On Saturday, February 18, 2023 at 6:35:53 AM UTC-7 gilber...@gmail.com wrote:

[Peter]

For those using spruce for the doubler, which way do you orient the grain?

[【千】Sen Goh]

I glued the ring cross grain.

[Stephen Foss]

Peter,

For the way I do it (see my previous post) , I'm using cut-offs from the top, so it works out that the grain of the reinforcement is diagonal to the grain of the top. It would be interesting to test the resulting strength of grain orientation, but my guess is that it won't make enough difference to worry about. But I've been wrong before.

This begs the question of why we glue the reinforcment across the seam of the back joint with the grain oriented 90 degrees to the seam. My thinking is that the back wood will expand/contract 90 degrees to the seam, but the reinforcement grain orientation won't expand/contract nearly as much in that direction, thus helping to keep the seam closed. And it seams (pun intended) to work.

In the case of the souondhole reinforcement the purpose is to help the guitar not fold in half via the pull of the strings. So i would think that orienting the grain to match the top would provide the most strength toward that end. Again, me guessing. I put the grain diagonally for practical purposes only (that the wood that's handy).

Steve

[Peter]

Hi Steve,

 

I like your thoughts, especially the diagonal orientation idea. When I do little patch pads for repair or reinforcement of a seam or crack I orient those 45 degrees, diamond fashion.

 

Rosettes add important strength, which is probably why they were made in in the first place. For this project though, I'm building a small-bodied guitar using this 55-year-old Cutty Sark Crate for the soundboard. I've reduced the thickness from 8mm all the way down to 2mm with my drum sander. I'm planning to have no rosette or sound hole trim at all as I wouldn't be able to level such without destroying the printed surface design. So interior sound hole reinforcement will be a must. I think I'll use your idea, and orient the grain along one X-brace or the other, unless someone has better ideas.

[Lamar Duffy]

Peter,

What wood is that crate?  Looks like it might be pine?

Lamar

[Peter]

Lamar, yes pine.  Scotch pine, no doubt.  It has a completely different feel than new stuff as the resins have crystalized. It has a nice tap tone. I'll get two out of this crate, and they should sell in the $2100-2400 range. I can document a cool musical heritage: This was fished out of a dumpster in 1968 behind a bar in Harvard square, close to the Club 47.

[Lamar Duffy]

Very cool.  I like the idea of using found/reclaimed materials, though that's more feasible for electrics.  I've read some good things about pine as an acoustic soundboard (though as you point out, "pine" is a broad range of species), so I'll be watching to see how it turns out.  I've just joined & thicknessed some pine panels from a big box store as an experiment, & it's easily more resonant than any spruce or mahogany piece I've ever tapped.  Good luck!

Lamar

[Peter]

Lamar,  I do a lot with recycled/salvaged stuff.  I sold this one last fall for $3,350. The galvanized top used to be part of the roof on a hog shed in eastern Colorado. The B&S are red oak pallet wood. I build nice ones too, of course.

[Lamar Duffy]

Fantastic!

Lamar

[Dick Fulco]

Very Nice!! Cool to use old used materials👍

Op ma 20 feb. 2023 om 21:32 schreef Peter <owaino...@gmail.com>

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[Neill Morgan]

That is quite wonderful. Takes a lot of vision and creativity to look at a hog shed roof and a wood pallet and see a guitar.

Neill

[Peter]

Thank you all, I’m glad you like the recycled concept. There’s a bit of marketing in there. The necks are all new quality materials, with only a few exceptions. I show off my skills there, especially in the setup and playability. I lavish some with fancy inlays, most get semi-hemi frets, and of course quality tuners. This way, people take the guitar seriously as an instrument. For these Cutty Sark models, I’m building a third one out of Padauk, with a cedar top. The idea will be to show them side by side so buyers can see that one sounds as good as the other.

[barry...@gmail.com]

What a neat idea! 

I’m big on rebuilding missions - like after hurricanes and found a need there.

On my first major trip (Hurricanes Katrina and Rita) I was on a trip where our group had a nightly program and I had my guitar. That Sunday were worshipped with the church that was hosting our group. They did everything a capella because their piano and organ were ruined. Since my team went down 90 days after the storm they would come to our evening worship programs because we had music.

I left that guitar behind and decided to get a donor guitar for each trip and leave it with that hosting facility. 

That has blossomed into inlays matching the theme on our shirts. 

As I learned more about setting up and repairing these guitars I found myself building them. 

After nearly 20 years of this project (no covid) these guitars are all over the country and I even received requests from folks that have used these guitars. The request - can you ‘build’ one for me In going to Venezuela, South Africa, and  Puerto Rico!

It’s so great to use these rejuvenated guitars all week and then leave them behind! I get notes more and then about folks who followed our team and used these same guitars!

Recycling takes many shapes - some are even guitar shapes!

In His Name - 

Barry

On Feb 20, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Peter <owaino...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[jwsh...@q.com]

There is an annual ukulele building competition where the ukulele has to be built out pine 2x4s. I heard one of them, it sounded ok. I have read articles that stated the all mahogany, 1916 Ditson/Martin ukuleles were the best sounding ukuleles ever made. Of course things like that are always subjective. In my personal opinion mahogany is one of the top 5 tone woods in the world. 

I am currently setting up a 1916 Ditson/Martin, all mahogany, tenor ukulele. It is my third one to date. One of them was all Koa. They all sound stellar, to my ears! They have a slim, narrow profile with a 1 3/4" sound hole, which is small. They don't project like a dreadnought but who cares. They sound delicious!  Scooter

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[jwsh...@q.com]

I am a strong supporter of using recycled materials for building instruments. It adds character. One of my up coming builds will be from junk I rescued from a pile of discarded wood next to a building. I was estatic when I found an old, solid, mahogany table top on the bottom of the pile. 

I also have an antique, mahogany two leaf, kitchen table I thought I would cut up into ukulele wood but have not been able to cut it up. I am trying to find a person that appreciates the value of refinishing it. It would look stunning French polished!  It is probably around 100 years old. Scooter

[Eric Schenk]

When I have done this, I did it cross grain, or close to it. For my Fleta style builds I end up at about 80 degrees just because of the way the patch gets made from the offcuts. 

Like others I glue the patch on aligned with the top by using the alignment hole from cutting the rosette. I use my manual circle cuter to cut a bit more than half way through from the front, then switch to cutting from the back.

Cheers,

Eric