Fiber Sheets

[Paul McEvoy]

Does anyone have a source for fiber Sheets for glueing up your own purfling strips?

[sam richards]

Paul, I used to buy fibre sheets in various colours from knife-making suppliers. 

Good luck,

Sam

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 at 9:05 pm, Paul McEvoy <paulmc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone have a source for fiber Sheets for glueing up your own purfling strips?

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[John Peters]

I've been looking for some time, best option I could find is RC Tonewood https://rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store/fiberveneer-c-12/

I just can't bring myself to pay the shipping for paper, especially if I've never seen their product.

[John Peters]

I never thought to search with knife making in the search line and just did it.  If you search "vulcanized fiber liner knife" there are several which come up and look promising.  this one is .5mm thick.  https://valleycomposites.com/collections/vulcanized-fiber-liner

[Brock Poling]

I buy this from time to time.  It is great.  I had one situation where it was damaged in shipping and they happily took care of it for me.

 

 

 

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[Paul McEvoy]

Brock did you mean to link something?

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Paul McEvoy
207-699-9526

[Paul McEvoy]

John that seems super expensive, is that $10 for one sheet?

I wonder if MacMaster has something useable.  I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

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Paul McEvoy
207-699-9526

[John Peters]

Those rolls are are 36" long so I'd thing that you get a lot out of one piece.  I don't mind the price per sheet, its the almost $15 shipping which I object to.  I am going to try the valley composites site shortly.

I look at McMaster, the problem is the on the industrial side it comes in Gray or Green-ish colors.  It is called Fish Paper or gasket paper.  All are vulcanized fiber material.  

[Rob Maurer]

Thanks, John! The paper on Valley Composites does look promising! I was just looking for fishpaper for soundhole binding.

Here's another site that has different thicknesses and theirs looks more black than the "black on Valley Composites (theirs looks more grey) 

https://usaknifemaker.com/vulcanized-spacer-liner-black-knife-handle-material.htm

Rob

[John Peters]

That looks promising too.  I'll let you know about the color of the Valley Composites product, I ordered some yesterday.  

[Paul McEvoy]

Is there a reason to use fiber and not veneer?

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[Charles Tauber]

Fiber bends easily without breakage. Veneer, especially when dry, can be quite brittle, making it challenging to bend while installing it. Fiber also isn't prone to chipping/splitting while scraping it after it is installed. 

If you slice your own purfling strips, fiber has no grain for cutting tools to follow: veneer can want to cut following its grain rather than in the straight strips we want. Not a big deal but requires a little more care. 

In short, fiber is a little easier to work with. 

[Paul McEvoy]

Veneer is doable though?  25% harder?

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Paul McEvoy
207-699-9526

[Charles Tauber]

Yes, of course. For a few decades, I've used a straight-edge and an X-Acto knife to make purfling from veneer. Take multiple shallow cuts.

32.67% harder than fiber. 

67.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot. ;-)

[Paul McEvoy]

I'd like to make up some wide sandwiches of veneers (like BWB etc) and then zip out strips of them.  But would I cut them with a knife like you're talking about? 

My other question with this is bending them...does bending them with a blanket or an iron ever make the glue joints fail?

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Paul McEvoy
207-699-9526

[Charles Tauber]

People have glued-up sandwiches of veneers to make a variety of "bandings" and purflings. The challenge is then cutting them into smaller strips. A single standard thickness of veneer cuts okay with a knife, but isn't likely to be very effective with a glue-up of multiple veneers. Some people cut them with a fine blade on a table saw with an appropriate zero-clearance throat and setup. I don't know how it is done in large scale/industrially. I haven't tried it, but in some woods, if the thickness of the sandwich isn't too great, you might be able to laser cut them. My experience has been that I can easily cut with a laser through 1/4" thick cherry or mahogany, but not 1/4" thick ebony, for example. The ebony just turns to charcoal. Might be successful with bindings of less dense wood.

I cut my own bindings on a bandsaw with a fine blade, 3/8", 6 tpi. I then thickness sand them on a drum sander. If using purfling on the edges of the binding, I glue them after making the binding and before bending, but it could be done as a sandwich of binding and purfling, then cut/sanded the same way. (Clean-up could be done manually with a scraper blade in a jig, rather than sanding, but is a lot of work.)

If using purfling - a single line/layer or multiple lines/layers - between the bindings and the top or back, rather than on the edge of the binding, I glue individual strips of purfling as the bindings are being installed in their rabbets. I don't glue/laminate the purfling, pre-bend them to the shape of the guitar's perimeter and then install them as a unit with the bindings. It might be possible to do that, particularly if one is using CA glue to hold the binding/purfling in place, but I haven't tried it. 

Glued surfaces between purflings and/or bindings can fail while bending, but often don't. The use of Titebond III helps prevent that. Regardless, separations can usually be repaired. 

[Paul McEvoy]

Ah yes.  That's helpful.  Glueing the strips in makes sense.  Thank you.  

I have a little proxon mini table saw.  The quality is not amazing but I can try that too.  

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[Rob Maurer]

I received my order from USA Knife Maker today. I ordered 1 8x11 sheet of black vulcanized spacer liner and 1 of their 6-pack end-cuts of vulcanized spacer liner. I received 1 8x11 sheet of black and 15 end cuts of different colors. At least 9 of the 15 are 11" long. My order from Valley Composites should arrive in a couple days.