worry.... of ES6 and Node & errors
Ep Ga
Are you going to force user to use ES6? A lot of dislike ES6 and are for ES5+; staying complaint with our code style and syntax as ES5, with the addition of new feature such as let and const, +. Which does not change the syntax but just add on new statement and operand.
Are you going to force user to use new feature of ES6 or are you just going to make them available to be use in node, and node, not changing the code module where we will be force to use ES6 feature.
Like I said, a lot of us disprove of some... most the majority of the new features in ES6, and are only looking forward to those that does not change the language, but add on... i.e.: ES5+
Also, do you have documentation of all errors that could take place in the node environment?
zladuric
Especially because it will, implicitly it explicitly, prevent whole classes of errors. In any case, I think it is up to the upstream provider of V8, Google.
In any case, you can always remain on node v0.10.x.
As for documented errors, you're referring to bugs? Did you check github issues for node project?
Rick Waldron
On Tuesday, September 9, 2014, Ep Ga <epg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you going to force user to use ES6? A lot of dislike ES6 and are for ES5+; staying complaint with our code style and syntax as ES5, with the addition of new feature such as let and const, +. Which does not change the syntax but just add on new statement and operand.
Are you going to force user to use new feature of ES6 or are you just going to make them available to be use in node, and node, not changing the code module where we will be force to use ES6 feature.
Like I said, a lot of us disprove of some... most the majority of the new features in ES6, and are only looking forward to those that does not change the language, but add on... i.e.: ES5+
Also, do you have documentation of all errors that could take place in the node environment?
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Jeremy Darling
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Ep Ga
like callback function and so on.
.... dark days ahead I see... dark days...
Rick Waldron
I'm not on the Node team but I would assume that it would depend on what the V8 team decides to do since Node is basically a wrapper around V8 at the end of the day. If the V8 team decides to enforce ES6 only (unlikely)
and not provide backward compatibility with ES5
then Node would most certainly be forced to go this route as well, that or fork and maintain their own version of the V8 core.
As ES6 is vastly different than ES5 it would seem more likely that a directive will be added (similar to that of "use strict")
that would provide an indicator to the browser/javascript engine to switch into ES6 mode.
A real trick to that flag though would have to be the ability for it to be queried thus allowing older (or non-ES6) browsers to prompt the user or fall back to a different code base.
Course, as I said, I'm not a member of the Node Core nor am I a V8 developer, so my 2 cents is pretty much worthless :)
- Jeremy--On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Ep Ga <epg...@gmail.com> wrote:--Are you going to force user to use ES6? A lot of dislike ES6 and are for ES5+; staying complaint with our code style and syntax as ES5, with the addition of new feature such as let and const, +. Which does not change the syntax but just add on new statement and operand.
Are you going to force user to use new feature of ES6 or are you just going to make them available to be use in node, and node, not changing the code module where we will be force to use ES6 feature.
Like I said, a lot of us disprove of some... most the majority of the new features in ES6, and are only looking forward to those that does not change the language, but add on... i.e.: ES5+
Also, do you have documentation of all errors that could take place in the node environment?
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Rick Waldron
Zlatko Đurić
Ok, I'm falling for it.
What syntax style? Show one specific example that will not work with harmony?
Do you even know what changes it brings?
Do you know that some harmony features are already shipped, not just in Chrome, but also Firefox? And no pages are being broken?
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Ep Ga
I'm ES5+.... Just won't some comfort knowing that i can use it's style instead of this new syntax style....
Generators, why do they have *? Couldn't the yield sign defined a behavior of the function to a generator behavior? And even understand or better yet compwthending the act of generator is not clear to me....
And why couldn't they be a key word instead of adding a funny syntax to it? Like Geneator(); and generator(); for both constructor and statment?
And promise???
I just.... Anyone care to give a feedback?
Bruno Jouhier
function* genIntegers() { var i = 0; while (true) yield i++; }
function* genNothing() { }
function doSomethingWithGenerator(g) { ... }
function foobar(really) { doSomethingWithGenerator(really ? genIntegers() : genNothing()); }
Bruno
th317erd
Rick Waldron
On Friday, September 12, 2014, Ep Ga <epg...@gmail.com> wrote:
I just... I just find it more easier to understand ES5 than Es6... A few of there new addition I can see of use, but for most I'm cloudy on... I just want to be able to always use ES5 with addition to it as ES+... I like the callback hell, and node have module that can be use to break it down into an saner view.
I'm ES5+.... Just won't some comfort knowing that i can use it's style instead of this new syntax style....
Generators, why do they have *? Couldn't the yield sign defined a behavior of the function to a generator behavior?
And even understand or better yet compwthending the act of generator is not clear to me....
And why couldn't they be a key word instead of adding a funny syntax to it? Like Geneator(); and generator();
for both constructor and statment?
And promise???
I just.... Anyone care to give a feedback?
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Peter Petrov
I don't know if ANY instance in the history of ANY programming language where moving forward broke things from before. I am sure with enough digging someone could find something here or there...
Ryan Schmidt
On Sep 14, 2014, at 1:24 AM, th317erd wrote:
> I don't know if ANY instance in the history of ANY programming language where moving forward broke things from before. I am sure with enough digging someone could find something here or there...
http://php.net/manual/en/appendices.php
I'm not holding up PHP as any kind of example of good language design, just wanted to point out that there absolutely are languages whose new versions don't necessarily run all old code anymore. Fortunately I've moved on from PHP to node where I hope I won't have to deal with too much of that. (Instead, I have to deal with new versions of npm modules that have different interfaces than their predecessors, or modules being abandoned and having to find replacements that work differently.)
Rick Waldron
Generators have a * because it is sometimes desirable to be able to create a generator that does not yield. Consider the following:
function* genIntegers() { var i = 0; while (true) yield i++; }
function* genNothing() { }
function doSomethingWithGenerator(g) { ... }
function foobar(really) { doSomethingWithGenerator(really ? genIntegers() : genNothing()); }
Bruno
On Saturday, September 13, 2014 4:08:42 AM UTC+2, Ep Ga wrote:I just... I just find it more easier to understand ES5 than Es6... A few of there new addition I can see of use, but for most I'm cloudy on... I just want to be able to always use ES5 with addition to it as ES+... I like the callback hell, and node have module that can be use to break it down into an saner view.I'm ES5+.... Just won't some comfort knowing that i can use it's style instead of this new syntax style....
Generators, why do they have *? Couldn't the yield sign defined a behavior of the function to a generator behavior? And even understand or better yet compwthending the act of generator is not clear to me....
And why couldn't they be a key word instead of adding a funny syntax to it? Like Geneator(); and generator(); for both constructor and statment?
And promise???
I just.... Anyone care to give a feedback?
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Ep Ga
let
yield --with out the 'function*'--
And a couple of other addition.
I am to use native module to build my app, no external module...
With these add on for the language, this might make this easier... But no sense on waiting... You'll think by this time 'let' would be useable by now.
Rick Waldron
I'm mostly looking forward to what I consider the extension of ES5, ES5+:
let
yield --with out the 'function*'--
And a couple of other addition.
I am to use native module to build my app, no external module...
With these add on for the language, this might make this easier... But no sense on waiting... You'll think by this time 'let' would be useable by now.
Bruno Jouhier
On Monday, September 15, 2014 2:51:17 AM UTC+2, Rick Waldron wrote:
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Bruno Jouhier <bjou...@gmail.com> wrote:Generators have a * because it is sometimes desirable to be able to create a generator that does not yield. Consider the following:That's not why "function *" exists. The new syntactic form exists as a means of creating a safe way to introduce `yield` as a special special form keyword; currently `yield` is a valid identifier in any global or function code. Take a look at the following:function foo() {var yield = 1;return yield;}That's completely valid in non-strict code: http://jsfiddle.net/rwaldron/16hg19cd/ If ES6 decided to risk the path that SpiderMonkey took for JS1.7/1.8 then any code that used the word `yield` as an identifier would suddenly stop working as intended. Providing a new syntactic boundary prevents that from happening: no code can possibly exist of this form or within this form, therefore nothing can be broken by its addition. A second reason is that "function *" provides a syntactic mechanism to clearly denote that this function declaration or expression is in fact defining a generator.Rick
Ep Ga
I'm speaking of this:
function foo(x){
While(x){
yield x.pop();
}
}
var bar = Foo(["foo","bar","baz"]);
for(;bar;) console.log(bar.next())://baz, bar, foo, undefined
I welcome this, the ES5+ spec welcome this!
But not this:
function* foo(x){
While(x){
yield x.pop();
}
}
var bar = Foo(["foo","bar","baz"]);
for(;bar;) console.log(bar.next())://{value: baz, done:false}{value: bar, done:false}{value: foo, done:false}{value: undefined, done:false} the done property will never be true consider that the while loop will not continue after coming across a false condition. And or the yield sign consider the pop() method being active on an undefined array.
Returning an object that will need to be parse.
Rick Waldron
On Monday, September 15, 2014, Ep Ga <epg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Rick Waldron
I'm speaking of this:
function foo(x){
While(x){
yield x.pop();
}
}
var bar = Foo(["foo","bar","baz"]);
for(;bar;) console.log(bar.next())://baz, bar, foo, undefined
I welcome this, the ES5+ spec welcome this!
But not this:
function* foo(x){
While(x){
yield x.pop();
}
}
var bar = Foo(["foo","bar","baz"]);
for(;bar;) console.log(bar.next())://{value: baz, done:false}{value: bar, done:false}{value: foo, done:false}{value: undefined, done:false} the done property will never be true consider that the while loop will not continue after coming across a false condition. And or the yield sign consider the pop() method being active on an undefined array.
Returning an object that will need to be parse.
Ep Ga
function r(){
var i = 0, a = [0,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1];
return (function (){return a.pop();});
}
var rr = r();
function y(){
let i = 0, a = [0,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1];
while(a){
yield (a.pop());
}
}
let yy = y();
function* g(){
let i = 0, a = [0,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1];
while(a){
yield (a.pop());
}
}
let gg = g();
console.log("return: " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + "\n" +
"yield: " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + "\n" +
"function*: " + JSON.stringify([gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next()]));
/*
return: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 undefined
yield: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 undefined
function*: [{"value":1,"done":false},{"value":2,"done":false},{"value":3,"done":false},{"value":4,"done":false},{"value":5,"done":false},{"value":6,"done":false},{"value":7,"done":false},{"value":8,"done":false},{"value":9,"done":false},{"value":0,"done":false},{"done":false}]
*/
Rick Waldron
On Tuesday, September 16, 2014, Ep Ga <epg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Rick, copy and paste in Firefox--the ones who are most involve in the spec direction--:
function r(){
var i = 0, a = [0,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1];
return (function (){return a.pop();});
}
var rr = r();
function y(){
let i = 0, a = [0,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1];
while(a){
yield (a.pop());
}
}
let yy = y();
function* g(){
let i = 0, a = [0,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1];
while(a){
yield (a.pop());
}
}
let gg = g();
console.log("return: " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + " " + rr() + "\n" +
"yield: " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + " " + yy.next() + "\n" +
"function*: " + JSON.stringify([gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next(), gg.next()]));
/*
return: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 undefined
yield: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 undefined
function*: [{"value":1,"done":false},{"value":2,"done":false},{"value":3,"done":false},{"value":4,"done":false},{"value":5,"done":false},{"value":6,"done":false},{"value":7,"done":false},{"value":8,"done":false},{"value":9,"done":false},{"value":0,"done":false},{"done":false}]
*/
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