Battery powered PIR sensor and node-red

[Colin Law]

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

[Zenofmud]

Colin,

How about a demos mini with the PIR and you could sent the info using MQTT? Here is a link to a example using Wemos mini and PIR: http://www.esp8266learning.com/wemos-mini-pir-sensor-example.php 

Paul

On Mar 23, 2018, at 5:09 AM, Colin Law <cla...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

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[Colin Law]

Thanks for that Paul, certainly interesting.  I am not sure that is a viable solution for battery powered though. A quick google suggests the wemos-mini is not too good with batteries. Perhaps I have not googled enough though.

Colin

On 23 March 2018 at 10:07, Zenofmud <zeno...@zenofmud.org> wrote:

Colin,

How about a demos mini with the PIR and you could sent the info using MQTT? Here is a link to a example using Wemos mini and PIR: http://www.esp8266learning.com/wemos-mini-pir-sensor-example.php 

Paul

On Mar 23, 2018, at 5:09 AM, Colin Law <cla...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

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[cflurin]

Have look at the xiaomi motion sensor ->  https://xiaomi-mi.com/sockets-and-sensors/

You'll need a gateway, so this only makes sense if you use more than one device like the temperature-humidity sensor or the switch etc.

It's quite easy to get data from the gateway using an UDP input node.

There are also xiaomi contrib-nodes but for my case they didn't work, so I've developed a bridge with a mqtt API ->  https://github.com/cflurin/xiaomi-mqtt

[Colin Law]

Thanks cflurin. I can't see an external PIR sensor, but possibly I can protect it enough to be ok.  As you say, if the one sensor is all I want then I would still need the hub.

Colin

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[cflurin]

I mean this onehttps://xiaomi-mi.com/sockets-and-sensors/xiaomi-mi-occupancy-sensor/ 

The prices are unbeatable, have a look at AliExpress

[Colin Law]

Yes, that is the one I was looking at. I think it is for internal use, for example it has a hole in the side for the reset button. I may be wrong though. You are right, the prices are remarkable.

Colin

On 23 March 2018 at 14:17, cflurin <fluri...@gmail.com> wrote:

I mean this onehttps://xiaomi-mi.com/sockets-and-sensors/xiaomi-mi-occupancy-sensor/ 

The prices are unbeatable, have a look at AliExpress

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[cflurin]

Right, it is probably for indoor use only.

[cflurin]

... although I've got one without hole, it's a small button

[Colin Law]

I can mount it where it won't get direct rain on it, so perhaps it would be ok.

If I get the hub will it only work with their devices?  Alternatively can the sensor work with other hubs. I don't know anything about ZigBee (if that is what it is) so I see some research is in order.

Colin

On 23 March 2018 at 14:52, cflurin <fluri...@gmail.com> wrote:

... although I've got one without hole, it's a small button

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[Zenofmud]

Colin, 

If you ever decide to go the PIR/Wemos/MQTT route let me know and I’ll send you my working sketch.

Paul

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[Colin Law]

OK, thanks Paul.

Colin

Colin, 

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[cflurin]

If I get the hub will it only work with their devices?  Alternatively can the sensor work with other hubs. I don't know anything about ZigBee (if that is what it is) so I see some research is in order.

Colin

Right the protocol is ZigBee (the same as Philips hue). Not sure whether it can work with other bridges/hubs or whether you can pair with other manufactures devices (Philips perhaps), but the xiaomi gateway is really nice and the mandarin/chinese voice telling me whatever is amazing.

I started a couple of month ago using xiaomi.

At the beginning I used only the temperature sensors with a UDP-input node.

But recently I added some more devices (switch, motion sensor) and ordered new ones (door/window sensor, cube, lightbulb, wall switch).

[Garry Hayne]

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:09:41 AM UTC, Colin Law wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

Does it have to be PIR? How about a RCWL-0516 Radar sensor connected to an Adafruit Feather Huzzah (ESP8266). has a LiPo Battery connector and charger on board.

Garry

[Zenofmud]

Colin

Just as an aside, my grandson (7) came over for a bit today. I took the PIR/Wemos/MQTT put it in our living room. I built a little flow that would sound an alarm when the PIR triggered and then told him he had to sneak into the living room and get something without setting off the alarm. What fun to see him try running, walking very slowly and then slithering across the floor to sneak in. He never succeeded but had a blast.

Paul

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[David Dempster]

Hi,
I use a Honeywell IS312B Passive IR Motion Sensor with aSwivel Bracket.

http://cpc.farnell.com/honeywell/is312b/pir-pet-immune-with-bracket-grade/dp/SR09444

I run it off of a PP3 9V battery.
The unit has a voltage-free solid-state relay which I connect to an input on a ESP8266 running ESP-Easy.
This in turn sends the status of the 'relay' contacts via MQTT to Node-Red.

I reckon I could house the unit in a rubber boot (so it's waterproof) and use it as an external detector.

Cheers from David.

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:09:41 AM UTC, Colin Law wrote:

[Walter]

Here is a real outdoor pir - it needs also a gateway or a raspberry pi with rf module.

https://www.elv.de/homematic-funk-ir-bewegungsmelder-aussen-2.html

The xiaomi devices are not sealed and run from a button cell - not so good on low temperatures.

A pure esp8266 based solution would not last long when powered via "normal" battery - also it's difficult to seal diy devices and the design is usually moderate :)

[Zenofmud]

Colin,

Does the entire setup need to be outside? Or, could the PIR be outside with some cables run indoors where you could house a Pi or Wemos and their power? Just a thought.

Paul

On Mar 23, 2018, at 5:09 AM, Colin Law <cla...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

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[Colin Law]

Thanks Gary, no it does not necessarily have to be battery driven but will not the requirement to be battery driven be a problem with this?

Colin

[Colin Law]

On 24 March 2018 at 08:29, David Dempster <david.dem...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
I use a Honeywell IS312B Passive IR Motion Sensor with aSwivel Bracket.

http://cpc.farnell.com/honeywell/is312b/pir-pet-immune-with-bracket-grade/dp/SR09444

I run it off of a PP3 9V battery.
The unit has a voltage-free solid-state relay which I connect to an input on a ESP8266 running ESP-Easy.
This in turn sends the status of the 'relay' contacts via MQTT to Node-Red.

I reckon I could house the unit in a rubber boot (so it's waterproof) and use it as an external detector.

Thanks David, all grist to the mill, but again I have the problem that there is no power there so nothing to power the ESP.

Cheers

Colin

 

Cheers from David.

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:09:41 AM UTC, Colin Law wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

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[Colin Law]

Thanks Walter

Does anyone know whether it is possible to connect to a Xiaomi device with a pi with an rf module?  I suppose I aught to google that before asking.

Colin

[Colin Law]

On 24 March 2018 at 09:45, Zenofmud <zeno...@zenofmud.org> wrote:

Colin,

Does the entire setup need to be outside? Or, could the PIR be outside with some cables run indoors where you could house a Pi or Wemos and their power? Just a thought.

Yes it is on an outbuilding with no power.  Conceivable I could run mains power or low voltage out to it but it would not be trivial.  I think one of the RF solutions is probably the solution to go for.

Colin

 

Paul

On Mar 23, 2018, at 5:09 AM, Colin Law <cla...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

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[Colin Law]

Oops, that doesn't make sense. Engaging brain before typing this time:

Thanks Gary, no it does not necessarily have to be PIR but will not the requirement to be battery driven be a problem with this?

Colin

 

Colin

[Mike Biddell]

Colin

Have you thought about using PT2262 433 meg PIR.... very cheap, good range, easy to waterproof using tape and a glue gun and battery lasts 6 months to a year. I have been using one as a drive warning for several years !!!!

Mike

[Colin Law]

Mike, having now googled PT2262 PIR there don't seem to be many people that think these are any good, but maybe I just didn't find the particular product you are referring to. Have you got any specific product in mind?

Colin

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[Mike Biddell]

Colin

Unable to understand why anyone would look askance at this solution ????? Good range and good battery life.

 Cheap as chips !!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-433MHz-Motion-PIR-Infrared-Sensor-Detector-For-Home-Alarm-System/400858591903?hash=item5d5508b29f:g:rlQAAOSw1ZBUuoAw

On Saturday, 24 March 2018 20:42:07 UTC, Colin Law wrote:

Mike, having now googled PT2262 PIR there don't seem to be many people that think these are any good, but maybe I just didn't find the particular product you are referring to. Have you got any specific product in mind?

Colin

On 24 March 2018 at 19:21, 'Mike Biddell' via Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Colin

Have you thought about using PT2262 433 meg PIR.... very cheap, good range, easy to waterproof using tape and a glue gun and battery lasts 6 months to a year. I have been using one as a drive warning for several years !!!!

Mike

On Saturday, 24 March 2018 18:22:28 UTC, Colin Law wrote:

On 24 March 2018 at 18:10, Colin Law <cla...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 23 March 2018 at 23:22, Garry Hayne <garry...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 9:09:41 AM UTC, Colin Law wrote:

I would like an external PIR motion sensor connected somehow into my node-red system (pi based). One problem is that there is no power where the sensor is to go so I think it needs to be wireless and battery powered. Is there any realistic solution to this that is not too expensive? I realise that 'too expensive' is a poorly defined term.

Colin

Does it have to be PIR? How about a RCWL-0516 Radar sensor connected to an Adafruit Feather Huzzah (ESP8266). has a LiPo Battery connector and charger on board.

Thanks Gary, no it does not necessarily have to be battery driven but will not the requirement to be battery driven be a problem with this?

Oops, that doesn't make sense. Engaging brain before typing this time:

Thanks Gary, no it does not necessarily have to be PIR but will not the requirement to be battery driven be a problem with this?

Colin

 

Colin

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[Colin Law]

What is the best thing to connect it to?

Colin

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[Mike Biddell]

RFXCOM USB transceiver

[Colin Law]

On 25 March 2018 at 09:16, 'Mike Biddell' via Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

RFXCOM USB transceiver

The cheapest I can find that for in the UK is £80. Are there any cheaper alternatives that are good enough?  At that price, with the sensor, it is over twice as much as the Xaiomi hub and PIR (though the sensor is not externally rated).

Colin

 

[Garry Hayne]

Colin, you might be able to put an ESP8266 into deep sleep mode and wake it with an interrupt from the sensor, not something I have done.

Also, what about a solar charger?

Garry

[Walter Kraembring]

Have you considered to modify a cheap standard outdoor solar powered PIR w LED's? Maybe there is room for an esp module inside the housing? or connected via a cable? So when the PIR triggers, it should give power to the esp that then should send the message...

Clas Ohlson

https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Super-Bright-PIR-Solar-Wall-Light/36-6492-2

[Colin Law]

On 25 March 2018 at 10:18, Garry Hayne <garry...@gmail.com> wrote:

Colin, you might be able to put an ESP8266 into deep sleep mode and wake it with an interrupt from the sensor, not something I have done.

Also, what about a solar charger?

I had wondered about both of those. I couldn't find anyone who had had great success sleeping the ESP8266 though.

Solar charger certainly a possibility.

 

Colin

[Colin Law]

On 25 March 2018 at 11:36, Walter Kraembring <walter.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

Have you considered to modify a cheap standard outdoor solar powered PIR w LED's? Maybe there is room for an esp module inside the housing? or connected via a cable? So when the PIR triggers, it should give power to the esp that then should send the message...

That is an interesting idea.

 

Clas Ohlson

https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Super-Bright-PIR-Solar-Wall-Light/36-6492-2

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[Simon Walters]

I had wondered about both of those. I couldn't find anyone who had had great success sleeping the ESP8266 though.

Solar charger certainly a possibility.

Maybe just try a PiZeroW instead to send a msg on boot (and then shutdown again) 

[Dave C-J]

esp8266 can enter ddep sleep and exit via a button... or in this case a signal from a pir... 

https://randomnerdtutorials.com/esp8266-wi-fi-button-diy-amazon-dash-button-clone/

[Andy]

I'll just throw this out here to be different - you could buy an outdoor PIR and swap in a STM32-based wifi module (SPWF04SA for example, $16).  The PIR sensor itself should only take a few mA continuously, and you can trigger an interrupt on the SPWF04SA to wake it up, connect, and transmit the data.  It takes 43mA at idle, way under 1mA in standby, 320mA while transmitting, which should be for a short time.  http://www.st.com/en/wireless-connectivity/spwf04sa.html

It's a really cool part - integrated MQTT, HTTP, all kinds of stuff.  I find the ESP stuff gets to be too hacky for me sometimes.

[Mike Biddell]

This works well !!!! My son uses it for his 433 PT2262 setup https://tinkerman.cat/hacking-sonoff-rf-bridge-433/

[Colin Law]

On 25 March 2018 at 14:21, Dave C-J <dce...@gmail.com> wrote:

esp8266 can enter ddep sleep and exit via a button... or in this case a signal from a pir... 

https://randomnerdtutorials.com/esp8266-wi-fi-button-diy-amazon-dash-button-clone/

I hadn't come across that site. Lots of useful stuff there.  Thanks.

Colin

 

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[Walter Kraembring]

I went to the local Clas Ohlson store and grabbed myself a sample of the solar powered garden light, it is so cheap you can afford to experiment with it a bit

Open the thing up, should be room enough for an esp + voltage regulator circuit (according to the link for the wi-fi button) if needed, maybe there is already a stabilized 3V on the board that you could connect to directly, I haven't tried to find & measure it. Anyway, the battery is 3,2V 500 mAh.

As you can see, in normal situation, normal daylight, all LED's are off, from dusk to dawn the middle one is on, and when movement is detected, the remaining 4 are also turned on for a time period. So hijacking the signal from one of the LED's could be what we need as "button" to the wi-fi switch. Obviously we need to use some cheap & small reed relay or optocoupler in between the LED output and the esp.

Since the warranty anyway will be broken, you can decide if you also want to keep the LED's at all and let the thing act as it was intended to. Or maybe just the one in the middle?

Here are some pictures of the thing opened up (it was very easy I have to say, nothing broken)

[Walter Kraembring]

I just measured a bit,

When the LED's are turned off, there is 3.3 V on one side of them so when turned on, the other end gets grounded. This might fit well with the wi-fi button design. So maybe we can just connect to the esp directly in parallel to one of the "alarm" LED's, no need for an extra relay. It's the same ground. And what about power regulator? Is the esp very sensitive? The battery is 3.3V, is that not ok for the esp?

[rs.23...@gmail.com]

Xiaomi sensors work very good (don't forget gateway)

[Colin Law]

Thanks all for all the suggestions - too many in fact. Now I am going to have to spend hours investigating them all.

Cheers

Colin

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