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Hi Yarik, thanks for sharing this idea!
A phantom focused database is very interesting and worth discussing. Let’s schedule it for the QC webinar series - I know few others interested in this and please suggest other speakers/panelists/papers on this topic. I know of few efforts at few BIG imaging centers do some sort of monitoring (although with different interests and/or at different levels) – HCP pipelines/fBIRN, LONI QC and the BrainCODE platforms come to mind, and I am sure there is few others.
For the benefit of everyone, I’d like to remind we shared/linked to a nice phantom dataset from the Ontario Brain Institute here on niQC website. Please help add other resources to the niQC resources website.
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As I try to follow this discussion, I am wondering, after all these years of MRI scanning across the world, why don’t we yet have a standardized phantom? Is the explanation the obvious one of large multi-site studies and the associated challenges never properly receiving sufficient consideration?
I very much like Stephen’s suggestion of phantom-focused community survey: “At a minimum just finding out what most research centers are doing for regular scanner QC, particularly how and which primary parameters they are monitoring and how often would be a great start, i.e., a landscape survey.”
We did a very broad niQC survey before, but I feel a much more targeted survey followed by a paper “review of phantom-based QA” would be very useful and straightforward projects, that can aid in the direction of the larger idea Yarik put forth (centralized database with some monitoring and archive features).
Also a gentle reminder, we have a Zotero library collecting the relevant literature to niQC here: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2221093/niqc?
Please feel free to add to it, if you are a Zotero user (which I encourage you to be as it is free, cross-platform and open source). If you know of even a better way, let us know 😊.
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Late as well, just to state that (sorry Yarik… I know it takes forever) at some point we will release the LEGO phantoms that have been collected haphazardly at the 26 sites of the CCNA. Haphazard, since not all sites are diligent. But, it also comes with the CCNA dataset. Hence, it would be great to have techniques to do phantom-less distortion QC straight from the images themselves. One can imagine learning the joint distribution of phantom and image distortions, for example.
Happy hunting
Simon
From:
<ni...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jean Chen <jc...@research.baycrest.org>
Date: Monday, July 5, 2021 at 14:15
To: "Raamana, Pradeep Reddy" <RAAM...@pitt.edu>
Cc: Stephen Strother <sstr...@research.baycrest.org>, "ni...@googlegroups.com" <ni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [niQC] Re: idea: MRI Clearing House
[Externe UL*]
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Thanks a lot Jean and Simon for the useful insights and pointers. From where I stand it appears to me we have enough experts and existing work for a “short afternoon workshop” of sort (few short talks, followed by an open discussion) focused entirely on phantoms as they are used in neuroimaging QA and QC. That would help us realize a clear outline for the phantom-focused review paper Stephen and I suggest (in which I agree with Jean that we might have to split it by modality or at the least by types of modalities: anatomical, quantitative, functional etc).
That workshop will also help us draft a much more concrete phantom- or QA-focused survey asking specific questions (within an existing framework developed out of the panel discussion).
Does that sound like a good idea? If so,
Thanks,
Pradeep
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Hello Y (and everyone)
Am making another concerted push to share all of the CCNA LEGO phantom scans onto the CONP.ca platform for general consumption.
Awaiting word from the study leadership to share this inhuman data.
Hope it will help
Simon
From:
<ni...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Yaroslav Halchenko <yarik...@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2021 at 11:56
To: niQC <ni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [niQC] Re: idea: MRI Clearing House
[Externe UL*]
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Hi Everyone,
A gentle reminder to indicate your interest in a short workshop (2-5 hours: few talks on existing work and open discussion) focused on Phantom QA (and discussing various aspects as noted below)?
If that’s too much time, perhaps we can start with an open discussion (2 hours) – let me know your availability:
https://doodle.com/poll/dszhhs8dkp6utg49?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link
Thanks,
Pradeep
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Just to clarify, my motivation for this workshop: I believe video recording of these talks and/or panel discussion becomes a valuable educational resource, and they are much easier to participate in (for us) as well as to follow (for others) relative to long threads of emails. Feel free to pushback if you believe emails are doing a fine enough job (asynchronous forums have their advantages).
PS: I fixed the doodle poll, it now correctly shows 2 hour chunks
No problem at all – I understand this is the summer/travel season (esp. after quarantine life in 2020).
I just expanded the poll to include the following week (Jul 26-30) as well to try maximize the attendance. I just wanted to get this going with those who can join for now, and have more discussions as needed, as it’s unlikely we would solve it all with this one meeting.
Here is the link again: https://doodle.com/poll/dszhhs8dkp6utg49?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link
Thanks,
Pradeep
From:
Bandettini, Peter (NIH/NIMH) [E] <band...@mail.nih.gov>
Date: Friday, July 9, 2021 at 1:59 PM
To: Raamana, Pradeep Reddy <RAAM...@pitt.edu>, niQC <ni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [niQC] Re: Phantom QA Meeting
Hi Pradeep,
Looking at the poll, I’ll be completely off the grid (hiking/camping in northern New Mexico mountains) during all the times, so can’t make this one.
Sorry about that!
Peter
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Gentle reminder everyone to share your interest and availability for an open discussion on phantom QA/QC – by the end of day today. Thanks.
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Thanks a lot Aaron for sharing GSP and their services in detail. It sounds very useful to our community. We have come across phantomlab.com recently (via Stephen). We can perhaps get you and few other related companies to give a talk on their solutions and services? Hope you can make it for the next week’s meeting.
Everyone, I have started to list various commercial solutions here on the niQC website – please feel free to add others you are aware of:
Aina Puce, PhD .
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