At about $25 I would buy at least 12 to start. A serial factory built ISO qualified product would get lots of interest just to compete with the Russian suppliers who obviously have vast stores of ( now overpriced) older by the day nixies.
My 2 cents worth
Phil B
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I'm a product engineer taking on a new project.
With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture In-18/Z568M inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 USD/pc). I don't compromise on quality. Hence, it will be built with parts mostly sourced from the US, and have the quality management system ISO-certified.
However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if the minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only commence with the project when I know that there is enough interest.
What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? show your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be within our grasp!
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Kickstarter.
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Hmm, are you talking QA or QC?By 'product engineer' you make it sound as if you think you can treat the process like a 'recipe'. You are relying on experts in the various fields required rather than having any direct knowledge yourself? High quality components can make a high quality dud too by the way.From the lack of substance in your 'blurb' you give ME the impression that you are a marketer by outlook.Regardless - people should not even consider buying until the results of life testing is known.John KaesehagenAustralia[retired trouble-shooter ISO cert electronics factory]
----- Original Message -----From: Aiden KohTo: neonixie-lSent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:22 PMSubject: [neonixie-l] Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubesI'm a product engineer taking on a new project.--
With current manufacturing methods, I'm able to manufacture In-18/Z568M inspired nixie tubes, at a fraction of their market costs (sub 25 USD/pc). I don't compromise on quality. hence, it will be built with parts mostly sourced from the US, and have the quality management system ISO-certified.
However, due to overhead costs, such a price is only available if the minimum demand for said tubes is reached. Hence I can only commence with the project when I know that there is enough interest.
What are your thoughts? Would it interest you if such tubes exist? show your support, and large, affordable nixie tubes may finally be within our grasp!
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Dalibors tubes are wonderful and perfect, and the price is very reasonable no boubt about that.
If there were newly made tubes in size of Z566M or ZM1042 this would be perfect, the Dalibor tubes are rather big, and for a clock to place on your desk or so they are maybe to big. Tubes in size of 30mm digits would be very nice and good looking for projects, if they were affordable.
Dalibor’s information is surprisingly candid. He is also quite correct that there are many operations such as this which are extremely labor intensive. His videos are very educational and tell you a lot about what it will take to even begin to make Nixies. The investment to justify more automation is based on volume production and the ability to reach a “critical mass” where production volumes and demand at a market price will generate sufficient capital to purchase machinery and support the overhead of a highly specialized operation. The economics of such a market do not exist (IMHO) for anything beyond a “boutique” or “cottage” industry, as we call them. There is certainly sufficient economy to support small operations such as Dalibor’s but I think that mass producing tubes simply does not have the demand that it would take to get the price down to the price levels suggested.
Forgetting about the economics, it has taken Dalibor 5 years of hard work to learn some of the lost art of producing a product which actually requires a great deal of expertise in materials, gasses and a level of cleanliness that he is just discovering.
I come from the semiconductor industry where I learned that the electrical design of the chip is actually only a very small fraction of what it takes to make a viable product. The physics of the materials and the manufacturing skills required to maintain such an operation demand that there be a market for billions of parts. For reliability, one will never get past very low production and yield without the knowledge and ability to control the cleanliness of the manufacturing environment and material content. It is very surprising that Dalibor has been able to achieve as much as he has demonstrated in such a short time.
If you study any high tech product, you either stay small and specialized or you get big and produce a incredible quantities for a market that is demanding it. The reason that nixies were displaced in the first place is because there was market demand for a much more efficient, mass producible product such as the LED display. Those did not happen overnight, either. I was selling low performance LED displays in the 70’s which were still succeeding against nixies on reliability, but mostly on the ease of use in designs. Nixies are a specialty that is for a niche market that is consuming them based on the look and is willing to pay a higher price for something unique. In other words, I don’t see a mass market because I can’t name enough advantages for a Nixie display over another technology. Business decisions are not made just because a product looks cool. There are too many cons for use of Nixies in modern day commercial products.
There will, however, be a good market for Nixies among the hobby builders and retro aficionados. The market could support a few operations like Dalibor’s.
So, when someone comes up with a RELIABLE $25 nixie tube that looks good, I will buy a bunch. And I would do it quickly because at that price, I know that the seller will run out of money very fast…
Jeff
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----- Original Message -----From: DaliborTo: neonixie-lSent: Friday, April 21, 2017 4:46 AMSubject: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes
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My statement was made with no disrespect, but you are free to
interpret it any way that you see fit. Much is often lost in the
printed word rather than the spoken word, which is why I always
prefer to have an actual conversation. It was meant to be
emphatic. I still stick by it. These wannabe's should watch
Dalibors' movie, more than once, perhaps if possible visit with
Dalibor and see what it actually takes to do what he has
accomplished. And accomplished he has, with a huge amount of
success. But as already stated by others he has given YEARS of his
life and GOBS of money to do what he has done, and I wish him much
continued success as he certainly deserves it. IIRC he did not
make a profit until February of this year. As for the wannabes,
I'm not at all against anyone trying, so long as they know ahead
of time what is realistic, and what is not. If Dalibor had not
tried we wound not have his excellent tubes today. Who knows
perhaps they will be able to produce a better product than
Dalibor, but in my opinion probably not. Time will tell. Ira.
I was thinking the same thing. If he's not asking for funding and is open about the risks, let everyone have a shot. It should be encouraged.
That aside, I am anxiously awaiting my single tube clock using one of Dalibors beautiful tubes. I had to settle for one tube for now. I just got a Kickstarter update that the tubes have arrived!
On Apr 21, 2017 11:39 PM, "jb-electronics" <webm...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
Wow, now we did it. Is that really the message we want to send to a person who is looking into making Nixie tubes?
I admire Dalibor for what he has achieved. Perhaps some of you remember that I tried the same and did not get far, this is my best "Nixie tube" I ever made:
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Any entrepreneur has to start with a passion for what they are trying to accomplish. Without this, the only guarantee is failure.
The second hurdle is to develop a reliable, functional product that someone would want to purchase.
If you are lucky enough to get this far, then you can work on manufacturability and achieving a price point that will be supported by demand, and cover the cost of production, overhead and profit.
Each of these steps are difficult and can take years of effort and subsidy but that is how products are born… I give a lot of credit to those that make it to product launch and eventual profitability.
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You forgot the one most important thing for ANY product (or
service), and that is a 'LARGE' enough base of buyers to support
the endeavor. I'm pleasantly surprised that Dalibor can make it
work, on what is most likely the buyers in this 'clock hobby'
market place. I very seriously doubt that he has very many
commercial/industrial, military, government, or consumer based,
customers. And those four that I just listed is where most of the
demand and therefore money comes from for any product or service.
I do agree with the points you made though. And here is something
else to think about. Assume for the moment that someone else is
indeed successful at doing what Dalibor does. They also make
Nixies, that are just as good as Dalibors in every respect. What
has happened now is that TWO entities are now fighting for 'market
share' of an infinitesimally small market place. The results would
be,,,,,,,,,,,??????? Ira.
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Anyways, I still believe it's doable to bring the nixie tubes into mainstream society:)
$0.02 from Dalibor is worth a hell of a lot more when he is giving advice.
His success is documented along with all of the issues that he encountered from his initial idea to his present production method.