status of original Weisling FLW kit design? Clone kits? Software?

[Mike McCauley]

I've searched for an answer to these questions both in the group and on the Internet in general, but I can't find anything. Sorry if I've overlooked something.

Wondering if anyone has developed a Weisling FLW clone (B7971 tube based) kit, either reverse engineered or all new hardware?

I have a kit that I built quite some time ago, which works great. When my step daughter went crazy over it I decided to locate some tubes, buy another kit, and build her one. I obtained some tubes and ordered a kit from Mr. Weisling, but the kit was never delivered.

As I understand, the uP in the original kit is read protected. If that weren't the case I'd probably build up the hardware via working off the schematic, and clone the chip. But having to do the entire project over from scratch is a bit more that I want to get involved in.

In the best of all possible worlds I'd prefer to simply buy a clone kit, solder it together, plug in the tubes, and give it as a gift. I've even got some tube sockets, so I'm good to go on the display side of things.

Suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Mike

[gregebert]

I developed a b7971 clock last year that uses a Raspberry Pi Zero W (the $10 unit with built-in WiFi).

All of my extra boards were given away already, but all the details & files are posted on another google group:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/b7971-driver-board-user-group

If you have the tubes, you've finished the most difficult and expensive step.

[mlmcca...@gmail.com]

I appreciate your quick reply, Gregebert. But what I'm interested in is a four letter word type device, not a clock.

I will check out your reference, however, just to see how you interfaced the tubes.

And if I can't come up with any sort of four letter word design, I'll probably implement your design just to make good use of the tubes.

Thanks!

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[gregebert]

I havn't added word-capability to the software yet, but that's very easy to do. Obvious things like holidays, birthdays for folks at home, and perhaps phrases for "2 minutes hate".

As others finish their clocks, I'm hopeful that software contributions will generate more interest. Right now it's just a basic clock, though the hardware is generic enough that any number of tubes can be cascaded (mine is 8 tubes).

At least 1 person is making mods to the original design to add dimming, which in hindsight is pretty important when you have 8 tubes running at night. Well, at least I dont need a nightlight anymore...

[John Rehwinkel]

> I have a kit that I built quite some time ago, which works great. When my step daughter went crazy over it I decided to locate some tubes, buy another kit, and build her one. I obtained some tubes and ordered a kit from Mr. Weisling, but the kit was never delivered.

I bought two kits, received both of them, and built one. I have a spare.

> As I understand, the uP in the original kit is read protected. If that weren't the case I'd probably build up the hardware via working off the schematic, and clone the chip. But having to do the entire project over from scratch is a bit more that I want to get involved in.

I have a copy of the source code and build notes. Since Ray is no longer with us, and he intimated that he wouldn't mind when I last spoke with him on the phone, I feel it would be okay to share it.

- John

[Nick]

Pete Hand also did a really nice FLW, one of which I have beside our bed...

[Terry Kennedy]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 4:12:40 PM UTC-5, jrehwin wrote:

I have a copy of the source code and build notes.  Since Ray is no longer with us, and he intimated that he wouldn't mind when I last spoke with him on the phone, I feel it would be okay to share it.

Back in the old Yahoo! group (I think) Ray came to the realization that he'd never be able to deliver any more kits from all the money he'd taken for pre-orders and that he was going to give all of the source code, documentation, etc. to one of the better-known group members (I forget who) who would then make it available to all. I believe Ray passed away soon after; I don't know if the material was ever transferred or not.

I believe the GEEKKLOK and FLW use some long-discontinued microcontroller. If I'm remembering right, it was something in the Hitachi 63705 family.

[Mike McCauley]

I don't recall was uP was used. I just looked at my clock, and it has a paper tag on the uP that covers the entire top of the chip. So, no tellin'...

At the risk of belaboring issues already well hashed over, it seems to me that *at a minimum* he should have make both the board layout and the source public domain *well* before he died in '14. If the code was written in any high level language, anything other than chip-specific assembler, it could probably be easily ported to a currently available chip. 40 pin DIPs aren't nearly as common as they used to be, but they can be had. I used a 40 pin DIP PIC just last year on a project.

[petehand]

LOL, I ordered a Weisling kit for my daughter too, and it didn't arrive, and that's why I designed my own version. I still have a dozen PCBs that use all through hole components, if you want one. With this design all the components are underneath the board, tubes on top.

[Samuel G. Guss]

Greetings Petehand,

Was this an offer to the group, or just one individual? If to the group, i'd certainly be interested in one. I'd be happy to cover postage and a nominal fee, if you wish!

All the best,

Sam

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[Mike McCauley]

Looks good!

Do you have a schematic and pictures of a finished unit that you could post?

How much are you asking for your boards (plus shipping, of course)?

Thanks!

Mike

[Nicholas Stock]

Pete, ever considered releasing this as an open source project? Put the boards on OSHPark or similar etc?

(Pharma) Nick

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[petehand]

The offer is open to everyone. I was selling these as complete kits in 2010 but I quit offering them so as not to compete with the Jeff Thomas FLW (which was also my design). I have about a dozen boards and most of the parts to make kits. I'll sell them for $20 a board, or $100 for a kit.

The complete documentation package is in the attachment.

[Zane Faught]

I’ll take a kit.

Regards,

Zane

On Jan 4, 2018, at 5:07 PM, petehand <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

The offer is open to everyone. I was selling these as complete kits in 2010 but I quit offering them so as not to compete with the Jeff Thomas FLW (which was also my design). I have about a dozen boards and most of the parts to make kits. I'll sell them for $20 a board, or $100 for a kit.

The complete documentation package is in the attachment.

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<Four Letter.zip>

[Donald Stramock]

Hi Peter,

I am interested in a kit also

Regards,

Don Stramock

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 4, 2018, at 8:07 PM, petehand <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

The offer is open to everyone. I was selling these as complete kits in 2010 but I quit offering them so as not to compete with the Jeff Thomas FLW (which was also my design). I have about a dozen boards and most of the parts to make kits. I'll sell them for $20 a board, or $100 for a kit.

The complete documentation package is in the attachment.

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<Four Letter.zip>

[Mike McCauley]

Peter, I'd like to buy one of your kits.
At your convenience, please email me at mlmcc...@att.net regarding payment, shipping, etc.
Nice design! I'm looking forward to building it.

Mike


On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 2:15:39 AM UTC-6, petehand wrote:

[petehand]

Everyone who wants a kit, please send me direct email to pete...@gmail.com. There are only about a dozen boards and when they're gone, they're gone, unless the offer is massively oversubscribed. JW, I already got your email. Mike M, it was your inquiry that started this so you're at the front of the line. I'll have to order some of the parts so I won't be kitting up until next week some time. Kit price is $100 plus shipping.

[petehand]

As of 6pm Pacific time on January 5th, there is ONE KIT LEFT. Everyone who emailed me should have had a confirmation email.

Just in case anyone has the impression that I'm an insane philanthropist,  I should explicitly mention that the kit DOES NOT INCLUDE B7971 TUBES.

[Mike McCauley]

PANICKING HERE -

This is Mike, the guy who got this rolling in the first place.

I replied to the email address you referred to with my shipping info, and asked about how to pay.

I haven't received a reply to that email. No confirmation.

I ***DO, FOR SURE*** want to buy a kit!!!

you can reach me at mlmcc...@att.net

[Terry S]

Pete said you were at the FRONT OF THE LINE!

[petehand]

Everybody seems very anxious to pay, but I have a principle, that I don't take any money until I have the stuff in a box ready to ship. So relax.

[Mike McCauley]

Roger that.

[MichaelB]

Here's one of Pete's I built a while back, Very nice Kit and Pete was very helpful.  I actually prefer it over the Weisling!

http://www.badnixie.com/Acrylic_Nixie.html

[Paul Andrews]

That is a nice clock. The animations more than make up for the ugly! Darned, do I have to save up for some B7971s now? Buying them seems like such a minefield.

[petehand]

SOLD OUT - all gone, sorry.

[petehand]

I started shipping kits this week. I should have them all packed and ready in a couple more days, so watch your emails.

[Dave]

Do You plan to offer more PCBs and/or kits?  If not, can you post the board design files or the gerber set?  Please! 

[Paul Andrews]

Hi Pete,

Are dimensioned drawings available? I need to design a case.

[petehand]

The PCB is the same size, same tube spacing and same mounting holes as the original Weisling board.

[petehand]

Calling Sam Guss! Your kit has been sitting here ready for a month and you haven't replied to my emails. Please respond if you still want the kit, otherwise I'll offer it to someone else.

[Paul Andrews]

With added bling - I know some folks don't like underlighting, but I love it:

I glued an ATTiny85 to the board dead-bug style, hooked it into ground and +5V (pre-super cap) and wired in four neopixels. I also added an ISP header for the ATTiny, because I know I will be messing with it:

BTW Pete, any chance I could get my hands on the source code?

[Jeff Walton]

Bling is good... 

Can always turn it off.  It's all about options and choices. 

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[Paul Andrews]

Well. I can't turn this off at the moment, I would need to add a switch :-). But that's a slippery slope of feature creep that includes controlling different effects and adding an LDR to auto-dim them...

[gregebert]

What kind of segment driver does the FLW use ? From the PCB layout, I can see it's a multiplexed display.

[Paul Andrews]

Its an HV5812, with cathode resistors and MPSA42/92 anode switching. I guess Pete could give you all the details.

[petehand]

[gregebert]

Interesting. The HV5812 is a CMOS device rated for 80V, so it will be vulnerable to overstress if the nixie tubes leak (no bleeder resistors are present).

Has anyone ever had driver failure ? If not, then I guess the blanking time is sufficient enough for charge to decay to a safe level, or the HV5812 is more tolerant of high-voltages than the datasheet indicates (or a combination thereof).

[Paul Andrews]

I'll bite: The datasheet says the HV is controlled by MOSFETs:

"It combines a 20-bit CMOS shift register, data latches and control circuitry with high-voltage MOSFET outputs". 

[petehand]

You obviously missed that in my design, pin 1 of the HV5812, the VPP pin, is tied to approximately 60 volts. An "off" output then is pulled up to 60V, which is high enough that the cathode is extinguished, and any leakage current is clamped to 60V.

[gregebert]

Sorry, I did miss that. It definitely solves any potential problem with nixie leakage, clamping it to a safe value. Much better solution than tying a bleeder resistor across each segment driver.

[MichaelB]

No Failures here. Mine's been running for 8 years now!

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 8:58:46 AM UTC-8, gregebert wrote:

[petehand]

There must be hundreds of that design out there. I personally sold more than 100 kits of one kind or another and the Jeff Thomas version used the same circuit. I've used it with regular nixie tubes as well as B7971s, and I've never heard of one failing.

[Michail Wilson]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153050742337

 

Not my auction

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

 

 

 

[Paul Andrews]

I only just got around to looking this up. This document gives very different PCB dimensions. Do you have a link to anything that matches your PCB?

[David Forbes]

Greg,

Overvoltage is not a problem if at least one cathode is turned on when the anode is turned on.