Whatbox

[petehand]

Does anyone remember these things?

Brits will deduce the era of this device from the currency. It consisted of simple neon relaxation oscillators powered from a 90V portable tube radio battery, the whole potted in solid plastic. I saw much nicer ones a few years later, with miniature neon bulbs soldered to a wire frame and visible through clear resin potting - the battery was potted in black underneath and couldn't be seen. I had a shot at making one myself, but never succeeded in getting the clear casting resin to set without it heating up and cracking.

These days I've got plenty of neons - does anyone know where I can find a 90V battery? :)

[Quixotic Nixotic]

I remember seeing these clear blocks for sale in a chic boutique in South London, late 60s or early 70s. I was fascinated. They were just oh so kooky and groovy and I made my own flashy things with caps and neons after seeing them.

As for resin, I once had to make an ecological exhibit for London's Natural History Museum. It was a cross-section through a pond, complete with all the flora and fauna, which was all freeze dried and painted up. The pond was cast over the top with a temporary side wall, in solid casting resin.

I rang the resin manufacturers for advice. As a result I gave it a whiff of catalyst that was of homeopathic proportions and the clear casting resin took a whole week to set, to the extent I thought it never ever would and it stank something rotten. Not much in the way of exothermic heat at that rate of curing, but nevertheless a week after that, the pond cracked. How I cried.

I'd also made a tree and all around it was all the things that lived around the base of a tree. I'd glued in hundreds of blades of brittle dried grass individually - it had taken me days. Then the postman came in and dumped a parcel on top of it. I cried again.

Why didn't I ever get a real job, like my parents told me to?

John S

[Nick]

Oh, John! a tale to make us all weep!

I too remember these things - its the sort of project that Practical Electronics or Practical Wireless would print (not Wireless World - that was right posh, that was).

I made a couple using opalesque resin so you couldn't see the contents, except I used LEDs and a couple of coin cells - lasted months, it did...

Nice idea might be to make an inductive power base such that the cubes flashed when left on the base - should be able to get 90V at enough current that way... The base could be USB powered with an inverter - lovely toy to have next to the PC - I have a small USB-powered plasmas ball that give hours of fun to the cats...

Nick

[Quixotic Nixotic]

On 3 Apr 2014, at 15:04, Nick wrote:

> Oh, John! a tale to make us all weep!
>
> I too remember these things - its the sort of project that Practical Electronics or Practical Wireless would print (not Wireless World - that was right posh, that was).

You have to be careful of some of those little projects that used to fill the gaps in the magazines. In the days when I built music synthesisers I saw a circuit for a vocoder, which said it was using logic chips by using a very small linear region in them that meant they could be used as dirt cheap amplifiers.

I never tried building this circuit at the time, but I looked for it again online recently and found a forum post by a guy who said that he had written the original article. He said that for fun he'd send in these quasi-plausible circuits he dreamed up in his tea breaks, just to see if any of them got printed. He said the vocoder couldn't ever work. I wonder how many people tried it?

Anyone remember those Bernard Babani books? Someone once told me many of the R. Penfold circuits never worked very well or never worked the same way twice. I see the publishers are still going strong: http://www.babanibooks.com/.

John S

[Joe Croft]

These are what got me started in electronics. My dad would make them for presents. One of my uncles gave me the one my dad gave him when I was like 6 years old.

I have pictures of the original my dad made one as well as a new one I using the same circuit, just laid it out differently. The schematic is in there as well.

 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2v5wr5vmf3ksafu/KYN2r0qa4x

For power, I use a little power supply board from allspectrum.com

http://www.allspectrum.com/store/nixie-power-supply-high-voltage-switch-mode-dc-dc-converter-kit-95-190vdc-25ma-180vdc-p-521.html

-joe

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[Quixotic Nixotic]

Off-topic, so apologies in advance. But all this talk of retrology (did I just invent a new word?) reminded me of an extremely strange event that happened in my early 20s.

Anyone remember Dewtron? They sold modules for making kit synths and advertised in the UK hobby magazines:

I saved my pennies and decided I had to build one in about 1971. The world-famous group he mentions he'd built one for was Led Zeppelin. Whether it ever worked reliably or not I do not know.

Brian had come up with a brilliant replacement for a patchboard he called Modumatrix, by having some tiny plastic toggle switches made that simply plugged together into as many rows and columns as you decided you needed, with through blanks for where you didn't need a switch. Great idea, except they had noisy contacts and one or two failed. If this was in the middle of a pile of spaghetti at the back, this was no joke, pulling it all apart to get at the rogue was a nightmare.

I built one. Everything was potted in brown resin and nothing could be repaired. VCOs had to be bought together and tracked before you bought them. So adding an extra VCO was out of the question.

Well anyway I'd built one and it was rubbish. So also had a friend of mine, Max Norman, who went on to achieve notoriety producing Ozzie Osbourne and Megadeth. Max and I pretty much gave up with Dewtron and both our machines laid unloved. Max had by then annexed Manfred Mann's Arp 2600 which they never used and we messed with that instead.

None of this is the purpose of this email though.

One day a year or so later in 1973 someone rang my doorbell. A smart middle-aged guy in a blue shirt and I immediately thought 'Policeman'.

It transpired that he was Called Nigel Woodfine and he was the best friend of Brian Bailey and they both lived many miles away from me in Ferndown, Dorset. He explained that Brian Bailey was an electronics chap. 

"Yes I have had dealings with Brian Bailey, he is the man behind Design Engineering Wokingham, AKA Dewtron." I replied.

Synthesisers were not the purpose of Nigel's visit to me either. So what is? Bear with me, dear reader.

Nigel had met an ex of mine at some event in North Wales. It was she who'd suggested Nigel contact me, for some reason.

Nigel then fished out some typewritten pages that he'd personally typed up from some automatic writing that Brian Bailey had handwritten over a series of days and occasions. He'd been taken over, compelled to scrawl out pages of writing by an unknown self-confessed alien hand.

Brian had never had anything like this ever happen before, he wasn't into anything esoteric, had no interest in UFOs and was a rather boring skeptical electronics man.

The messages came from a higher intelligence of aliens and most of the wording was of what I imagine may be typical of UFO type encounters, "We come to your planet in peace with messages of love" etc. type stuff. Closet encounters of the turd kind.

But in among these pages was one bombshell message that appeared to be urging Brian Bailey to do an experiment of some kind, although it did not suggest the outcome.

I am talking from memory here, but the message went something like, "Cleave a diamond in the quadrant mode and shine a beam of xxx angstroms at the third axis, in such a way that it hits it at yyy degrees." There were some other bits and bobs in it too. In other words it was a very specific exercise that sounded as if it might be possible. If only I had known Nick de Smith then.

Brian Bailey was going nuts over it all. He could make no sense of any of it. He'd been to Porton Down and spoke to the spooks there and they could shed no light on any of it. He wasn't on medication, he'd had a doctor check him out.

My father, it so happens, was a geologist with a PhD and a special knowledge of crystals and was also a strong mathematician. He could make no sense of it all either. I went to London's Hatton Garden and spoke to a few of the diamond cutters there. None could make sense of the diamond cleaving issue. The story died a death. I saw Nigel a few more times. He even got Brian to look at some of the dumb synth modules for me, but as for the little green men from Mars, they were not to contact Brian again.

I reminded my wife about this funny episode a few months back and she said "Oh I think I know where that typewritten stuff is, we still have it."

My wife found most of the pages, but alas the all important one or two (it may have been just one page) is missing. I think I must have lent it to someone who was going to get back to me about the experiment, but never did.

Such an odd episode. I am in contact with Antoinette, the lady in question who'd put Nigel onto me in the first place, and I asked her recently how she came to give Nigel my address, but she has forgotten all about the circumstances, but does remember being in Wales and meeting Nigel.

John S

[threeneurons]

I remember the circuit, but not that box. RadioShack even had a kit with 5 neon bulbs. I remember that one 'cause I bought one.

Couple of power options. (1) 10 9V batteries, in series. With simple relax oscillators, those should last forever.

(2) eBay a nixie supply. Some go down to 90V. I'd say one of mine, but currently I'm out of stock. :(

[Charles MacDonald]

On 14-04-03 12:07 PM, threeneurons wrote:
> I remember the circuit, but not that box. RadioShack even had a kit with
> 5 neon bulbs. I remember that one 'cause I bought one.
>
> Couple of power options. (1) 10 9V batteries, in series. With simple
> relax oscillators, those should last forever.
> (2) eBay a nixie supply. Some go down to 90V. I'd say one of mine, but
> currently I'm out of stock. :(

Or link a bunch of these
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-15F20-22-5V-Carbon-Zinc-Battery-412-U15-VS084-MN122-/220781419843?pt=US_Single_Use_Batteries&hash=item3367991d43

>
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[petehand]

Wow, it's been a while since I saw one of those.

These are better value - 75V in this pack for $3. But you'd have to make a holder.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-x-AG13-G13-L1154-LR44-SG13-357-A76-303-GP76-Button-Cell-Coin-Battery-T7-/121208181765?pt=US_Single_Use_Batteries&hash=item1c38921405

[Nick]

On Friday, 4 April 2014 09:30:19 UTC+1, petehand wrote:

Wow, it's been a while since I saw one of those.

These are better value - 75V in this pack for $3. But you'd have to make a holder.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-x-AG13-G13-L1154-LR44-SG13-357-A76-303-GP76-Button-Cell-Coin-Battery-T7-/121208181765?pt=US_Single_Use_Batteries&hash=item1c3892140

LR44 are only 150mAh - PR44 (Zn/air) are 600mAh - somewhat better - the Hg ones, MR44, are now banned.

Nick 

[Ron Schuster]

How about these? 120v for $6.04. You'd only need to use 8 of them to get to 96v. With a little metal spacer they'd probably fit in a AA battery holder.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-pcs-GP23A-12V-Alarm-Remote-Alkaline-Batteries-GP-23AE-21-23-A23-23A-23GA-MN21-/300692052849

[Charles MacDonald]

What about the SR44 (Camera Batteries - silver Oxide 1.55V) I was told
they were more powerful that he alkalines

If you weregoing to stack batteries, I wonder if starting with Litium
would be better? the same sources often have the coin cells alos even
if there is a question about shipping them

[John Rehwinkel]

> How about these? 120v for $6.04. You'd only need to use 8 of them to get to 96v. With a little metal spacer they'd probably fit in a AA battery holder.

They're only about 55mAh, but yeah, that's cheap for a bunch of volts. I use one or two of them in series to replace 22.5V batteries in battery-capacitor flashbulb holders.

- John

[petehand]

Let's apply some engineering to see what kind of battery would do the job.

Assuming a neon strikes at 90V and extinguishes at 60V, the average voltage across the resistor would be 15V. Initially, I arbitrarily choose the series resistor to be 1M and the capacitor to be 2.2nF. The flash rate would be about 1 every 2 seconds. The average current per neon would be 15 microamps. Let's say there are 8, and we want it to run for a year (8000 hours), that means we need 960mA-hrs.

Somehow I don't think the old radio battery was anywhere near an amp-hour. So how about 10M resistor and 1nF capacitor. The flash rate would be about 1 every 10 seconds. It wouldn't be very busy or very bright but with 8 lamps, something would be happening often enough to be interesting. The average current would be 1.5uA so for a year we would need about 100mA-hr. That's doable.

So take a block of something insulating - wood might do - 3 inches square by an inch deep, drill four 1/2 inch holes right through, each hole takes 15 LR44-size cells. Fashion a couple of end plates out of PCB material, solder on bits of spring out of a ball point pen. Solder a neon christmas tree together like joenixie, attach to base and connect to battery ends. Stick it on top of the TV and enjoy it for a year. Sounds like a perfect wet afternoon project for the (grand)kids!

Now excuse me while I submit this as a little project to fill the gap in my favorite magazine. Actually, all kidding aside, this is the kind of thing that might appeal to Make Magazine.

[jodell]

My kids call me Buzz Killington when I remind them of the safety implications.  Still, maybe a gentle reminder that a)any size cell in series at these voltages magnifies the results when any individual cell exhausts the reactants within it. b)the electrolyte in Lithium cells is flammable/explosive c)if you must, personal protective gear and shield your surroundings

I used to work for one of the major battery producers in their R&D facility and because I am rampantly curious, asked many questions and learned a lot about many of the failure modes of consumer electronics and the cells/batteries that power them. If you have cells in series, there will always be one cell that that "runs out" first. When it does, the rest in the series will "charge" it. Very few chemistries or constructions are suitable for this, and generally instead, the water within the electrolyte hydrolyses to hydrogen and oxygen.  The gas produced naturally expands until some portion of the case fails.  90V through an old school "heavy duty" Zn-MgO with a weak paper wrapping does no more than ooze, and they were contained in cans surrounded by bitumen to pot them.  Failure mode is just leakage and a bit of a mess.  In addition, the discharge profile shows gradually decreasing voltage, which allows the consumer time to pick up a replacement battery long before you get to gas production levels.  For coin cells, both Ag and Li-type cells have a really nice discharge profile that stays nearly at the rated cell voltage almost all the way to depletion, then it drops off to zero very sharply.  Since watches and cameras are very expensive to replace when the cells leak, the seals on the cells are very very good and will hold a much higher gas pressure. (In fact, one test of a watch cell design involved dropping one in a solder pot of molten lead or tin and timing till it explodes.  Done in a hood with a big splash shield and the door down.)  So when one cell switches to charge mode, pressure within can result in a much more dramatic failure mode.   With lithium chemistry, lithium reacts with water, so an organic (flammable) electrolyte is used. On charging, gas production and seal rupture now releases a flammable liquid or gas and fire can result.  

This is a long-winded explanation that says, if you assemble a 90V cell, use the chemistry they did back then with the type of cells they used back then, or design your experiment to deal with potential explosion and/or fire. Remember that a battery is an oxidation reaction controlled in a can, just like gasoline in a car engine is a controlled oxidation reaction.  This is Buzz Killington, signing off   :)

[John Rehwinkel]

> I used to work for one of the major battery producers in their R&D facility and because I am rampantly curious, asked many questions

You sound like me!

> This is a long-winded explanation that says, if you assemble a 90V cell, use the chemistry they did back then with the type of cells they used back then,

There is some data lying around. A NEDA 204 (IEC 60F40, Eveready 490) 90V battery, uses 60 #135 cells (LeClanche-Manganese Dioxide) in series. Unfortunately, I don't know the specs on an F40 or #135 cell, so I don't know the milliamp-hour capacity. Here's some data I found:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/490.pdf

Exell make an alkaline version of this battery (for $34.50), but they don't seem to offer any specs on it. Perhaps I'll ask them.

Data on the "skinny" 90V battery I had is even more scarce. It's a NEDA 214 (Eveready 479). I don't have an IEC code and I don't know what kind of cells it was built out of (I'm guessing something like their 140mAh #118 cells or 200mAh #118P cells). I took it apart, and it was physically just ten 9V rectangular batteries in series, all in a cardboard wrapper with snap terminals on top.

Have any clues or data on these old 90V batteries?

Apparently, Union Carbide/Eveready still makes the old 455 (NEDA 202) 45V 550mAh B battery (30 #130 cells):

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/455.pdf

And a few folks still offer the monster 510V NEDA 741 (Eveready 497) photoflash battery, composed of a whopping 336 #118 cells in series!

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/497.pdf

I think I'm a battery geek.

- John

[Frank Bemelman]

I'm no battery geek, but that last pdf was fun to look at ;-)
Cheers, Frank

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: John Rehwinkel
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 4:06 PM
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox

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[Joseph Bento]

I always heard them referred to as an "Idiot Box."  Neon relaxation oscillators are fun.  Such a device can be built where the lights blink in random patterns, or they can be configured to flash in sequence.

90 volts worth of 9v batteries is expensive, and a true B battery cost even more.  I tend to use a simple oscillator feeding a backwards filament transformer, thereby getting the needed 90v from a few AA cells. 

Joe, N6DGY

[Instrument Resources of America]

Speaking of batteries. I don't know how many of you buy batteries (cells) at Harbor Freight Tools, but be aware that they sell several different cells with different chemistries. Alkaline, which I've bought lots of and had no problems, and some VERY INEXPENSIVE cells, that I've been told by another customer standing in line with me the following. That they were the decades old ZnMgO chemistry, that they would not last very long, and that they would most likely leak and damage whatever they were in. Just they did to about everything I put them in decades ago. I have "NOT" gone to any trouble to verify this though. If any of you know for sure, please let us all know.   Ira.

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[jodell]

The folks on this board know way more than I do about what was used to power historical equipment.  I only worked with batteries for a year (25 years ago) as a technician ("go there, do that") with the small watch cells and the only high-voltage work we did was a 5 cell pack of 1.5V AgMnO cells that was boosted by a customer's device to higher voltage (think of what the Invisible Fence collar unit does and you get the idea).  The only radio type construction I saw was a Mg-MnO pack that they had made for years for military radios, soon to be eliminated in favor of Li chemistry.  

The thing to remember about commercially produced batteries is that the chemistry is less than half the equation.  The packaging is what makes these things so very useful, or destroys our equipment.  The old school "heavy duty" battery used the zinc itself as a can, and as the capacity is used up, it can eat holes in the can letting the electrolyte leak. Put them in something to catch the leaks and they are as useful under low discharge rates as anything else.  The modern alkalines have a steel can on the outside and the zinc is granulated in the center, which results in higher discharge rates. My interest is in the physical processes that occur, but most people don't care at all about diffusion-limited reactions, they just want their flashlight to turn on long enough to get where they are going :)

[John Rehwinkel]

> the only high-voltage work we did was a 5 cell pack of 1.5V AgMnO cells that was boosted by a customer's device to higher voltage (think of what the Invisible Fence collar unit does and you get the idea).

I was thinking of nixies, for some reason.

> My interest is in the physical processes that occur, but most people don't care at all about diffusion-limited reactions,

I do, but I'm not "most people". I've even written programs to simulate such things. I have some high-drain applications where reaction rate and effective resistance are important (think nixie and photoflash boost circuits). It's possible to pull a couple of amperes from AA cells, and several amperes from C cells. I'm find of NiCd cells because they'll give you gobs of current in a hurry.

> they just want their flashlight to turn on long enough to get where they are going :)

While I love the glow of neon, and the simple glow of tungsten, there are times LEDs are the way to go. And flashlights are a great place for 'em, IMHO. With an ordinary incandescent bulb, as the battery voltage drops, more and more of the energy gets uselessly radiated away as IR. An LED hooked up to a near-dead battery will still give a useful (if feeble) visible glow. There's even one LED flashlight made that runs on a dozen CR123 cells in parallel. If you give it new cells, it'll run continuously for weeks/months. But the real value of it is, you can take a bunch of the "dead" ones from your other equipment, and they'll run the flashlight just fine.

Then again, the neon "do-nothing" box would run happily for quite some time from a couple dozen "dead" CR123s in series (just to get sort of back on topic).

- John

[Charles MacDonald]

On 14-04-05 01:16 PM, Instrument Resources of America wrote:
> Speaking of batteries. I don't know how many of you buy batteries
> (cells) at Harbor Freight Tools, but be aware that they sell several
> different cells with different chemistries. Alkaline, which I've bought
> lots of and had no problems, and some VERY INEXPENSIVE cells, that I've
> been told by another customer standing in line with me the following.
> That they were the decades old ZnMgO chemistry,

There are a few types of button cells, The so called ZInc-Air cells are
used in Hearing aids where the battery runs down in a few days of use no
mater what. They have a seal that you pull off to activate them, and
then you start the limited life.

They have the advantage of producing 1.35 volts just like the now banned
Mercury batteries. There is a version made for photographers who use
equipment that depends on the fixed voltage.

Alkaline are common, the in circuit voltage declines in use. Silver
Oxide are longer lasting but more expensive, and have a relatively
constant 1.55V output.

>> If you have cells in series,
>> there will always be one cell that that "runs out" first. When it
>> does, the rest in the series will "charge" it. Very few chemistries or
>> constructions are suitable for this, and generally instead, the water
>> within the electrolyte hydrolyses to hydrogen and oxygen. The gas
>> produced naturally expands until some portion of the case fails.
>>

>> This is a long-winded explanation that says, if you assemble a 90V
>> cell, use the chemistry they did back then with the type of cells they
>> used back then, or design your experiment to deal with potential
>> explosion and/or fire.

One potential offset to this is that as most cells wear out they build
up a good amount of internal resistance. this limits the available
current. YMMV

This however does reinforce the rule that you should never mix batteries
on a series combination as that does create the risk of one wearing down
when the rest of the group are still very lively and running with little
internal resistance.

[Tidak Ada]

Hi Charles,

Can you tell me the type Zn-O2 Cell that could be used for camera's and
exposure meters? I am still preserving some PX625's in the fridge, but once
they will be empty.
Do they stand longer as those for hearing aids? Or can you even stop the
process?

eric

-----Original Message-----
From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Charles MacDonald
Sent: zondag 6 april 2014 21:53
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox

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[chuck richards]

All I know is that I use (3) silver oxide cells
to power up my Hewlett-Packard HP-15C calculator.
Those cells last between 6 and 10 years.
Bought that machine new in 1984, and it's now on
it's 4th set of those cells.

Chuck

>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/!%26!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAA
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[Charles MacDonald]

On 14-04-06 04:12 PM, Tidak Ada wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> Can you tell me the type Zn-O2 Cell that could be used for camera's and
> exposure meters? I am still preserving some PX625's in the fridge, but once
> they will be empty.
> Do they stand longer as those for hearing aids? Or can you even stop the
> process?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/96457-REG/Wein_W9901201_MRB625_Cell_1_35v_Zinc_Air.html

These supposedly will last 6 months, I have not tried the experiment.
(Yet - I just bought an old exposure meter that will need a couple of
them which I will have to get on my next order from B&H)

[Tidak Ada]

Hi Charles,

Thanks, great information.

eric

-----Original Message-----
From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Charles MacDonald
Sent: zondag 6 april 2014 22:26
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox

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[John Rehwinkel]

> Can you tell me the type Zn-O2 Cell that could be used for camera's and
> exposure meters? I am still preserving some PX625's in the fridge, but once
> they will be empty.

Just get a MR-9 adapter and then you can use common cells and not have to recalibrate your camera like you would with a PX625U or other alkaline substitute.

- John

[John Rehwinkel]

>> Can you tell me the type Zn-O2 Cell that could be used for camera's and
>> exposure meters? I am still preserving some PX625's in the fridge, but once
>> they will be empty.

For a lot of solid data on battery replacements, this is a worthwhile document:

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/batt-adapt-us.pdf

The MR-9 adapter I mentioned has issues with size, cost, and current capacity, but does well in many cameræ. Other approaches work better in other situations. Worth a read if you're a vintage camera user and/or perfectionist (I'm guilty of this).

- John

[jodell]

I love the orange glow of Nixies, and a do-nothing box would distract me for hours.  I only have one Nixie device, a clock (from Taylor Electronics) that sits in the bedroom and also serves as a nightlight. Currently out of commission as it took a tumble off the ledge and the power plug pulled a trace off the board.  Just have to desolder the HVPS and RTC to transfer to the new board, putting it off until I make a real case for it (it was in the cardboard box it came in with a hole cut in the front for the display).  But that has to wait until I finish the design and build of our 12x16 hunting cabin so we can stretch the hunting season out past the first snowfall. I'm getting too old to sleep in an unheated tent when its below freezing, since the dog is a fool and won't climb up on the cot with me.  But (back to electronics) at least at those temperatures, LEDs can still put out useful light, even in a cheap solar garden light.  Many of which still use NiCad cells.  Glad I don't have to work with that chemistry anymore, the quarterly 24 hr urine test was annoying. Though naturally the guys would compete to see who could fill their gallon jug....

The program to simulate the reaction sounds interesting, most of my programming has been either data reduction and massaging into graphs, or school exercises to simulate molecular dynamics, which was really just solving Newton's equations of motions in a loop (and no math required on my part, ha-ha).  Any particular language or were you using one of the mathematics packages?  Though these days even spreadsheets can do quite a bit with a modern processor.  

[John Rehwinkel]

> I'm getting too old to sleep in an unheated tent when its below freezing, since the dog is a fool and won't climb up on the cot with me.

Wow, that is a foolish dog! Most dogs would love to climb up to share body heat.

> But (back to electronics) at least at those temperatures, LEDs can still put out useful light, even in a cheap solar garden light. Many of which still use NiCad cells.

Those things beat up theiir NiCads pretty hard, but LEDs are hardy and will glow with pretty much anything.

> The program to simulate the reaction sounds interesting, most of my programming has been either data reduction and massaging into graphs, or school exercises to simulate molecular dynamics, which was really just solving Newton's equations of motions in a loop (and no math required on my part, ha-ha).

The coding I do for a paycheck mostly consists of web backends, high performance graphics stuff, hardware control (device drivers), or data conversion.

> Any particular language or were you using one of the mathematics packages?

Banged the whole thing out in C. It modeled diffusion-limited aggregation to simulate crystal growth, showing the results on screen as the "crystal" built up from a seed particle.

- John

[Tidak Ada]

Hi John,

I do this directly to your mailbox, because it gets too off-topic.

Thanks for the link! Surprisingly the author proves to be Dutch!

Yes I have two Olympus OM1n camera's, that I want to save because of they
are almost battery independent.
I come regularly in areas where charging a LiPo battery is hard or
impossible, so good old film photography is the solution.
The DIY trick will even be better done by the use of SMD components!

eric

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From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of John Rehwinkel
Sent: maandag 7 april 2014 2:17
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox

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[threeneurons]

Back to blinking neon lamps. Here's the circuit used in that old Radio Shack kit:

Only needs 5 resistors, 5 caps, and 5 neon bulbs. Can be powered with as little as 90V, but a nixie 180V supply can also be used. I wired up the circuit, and here's a video of it:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mpxj1_sequential-neon-blinker_tech

It's powered from a switching supply, outputting roughly 90V. With 12V in, the input current is only 6mA. This rig uses 8 AAA batteries. Even with a cheapo zinc carbon battery, you're looking at 200mAh life, with a load drawing as much as 15mA. That means it should last over a day. One battery, and a decent switching supply. 

[John Rehwinkel]

> Back to blinking neon lamps. Here's the circuit used in that old Radio Shack kit:

There's a great resource of the old Radio Shack "P-Box" kits here:

http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html

The 28-130 "Goofy Lite" is there, along with all its instructions. The page with the schematic is here:

http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG

Not too much to it, a 2SB54 germanium PNP transistor driving a 1k:200k step-up transformer (part number 99-3-203, which is a Radio Shack 273-1376, which appears to be a Xicon EI-19 core. I doubt this circuit has enough oomph to light up a nixie, however. It probably only manages 90V or so, at not much current.

- John

[chuck richards]

Great to see the Radio Shack "P-Box" kits again!

But, where's the intercom? I guess by that time
it was discontinued. I used that one more than any
of the others.

Chuck
>
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>---- Original Message ----

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>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox

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[threeneurons]

Bookmarking that P-Box link ! Memories of my early teen years. Thanx !

I wouldn't use that variation of a blocking oscillator, they use as their boost supply. That's a favorite circuit of theirs. Anytime they need a pulse train, out comes a center-tapped xfmr, and a xstr. You see it a lot in their 100-in-one projects. PNP germaniums were all over the hobby market back then. It'll work just fine with a GP silicon part. Also flipping the circuit to work with a NPN is pretty straight forward.

With the current market, I'd just go with a modern switching supply, instead of that Radio Shack oscillator, unless you feel the need to replicate it exactly. Good luck finding those Japanese germaniums !

[Nick]

On Tuesday, 8 April 2014 16:22:36 UTC+1, threeneurons wrote:

 Good luck finding those Japanese germaniums ...

On eBay at the moment - Toshiba 2SB54s at about USD 5 each... (from Littlediode)

Nick

[Charles MacDonald]

On 14-04-08 11:38 AM, Nick wrote:
> On Tuesday, 8 April 2014 16:22:36 UTC+1, threeneurons wrote:
>
> Good luck finding those Japanese germaniums ...
>
>
> On eBay at the moment - Toshiba 2SB54s at about USD 5 each

> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SB54-Transistor-x-1-pieces-/160937398278>...
> (from Littlediode)

I believe that that number or the equivalent was fairly standard in the
little 6 transistor pocket radios that still turn up with broken cases
in flea markets, so It probably is not too hard to find. The Former
(and Future) Soviet union was using germanium for a long time, and the
ruskie versions are as easy to get as Ruskie Nixies.

[threeneurons]

Well, how about that ! A few months ago, I was searching for 'em, but it only came up with the Russian jobs. Though, I'm not looking to replicate that kit exactly, so I'll pass on them. For someone who feels more nostalgic, that'll be good.

All I Know, as a kid, that it was tougher to kill a silicon part. So once their prices dropped, I never looked back. Until, ~10 years ago, But then, I went way back, to "hollow-state".

[GastonP]

The 2SB54 was one of the standard setup in 6-transistor radios for many years in my country.
As far as I can recall (and I salvaged many of them in my teen years) the usual layout was:

1 x 2SA52 1st Converter/Oscillator
2 x 2SA49 1st and 2nd IF stages (@455KHz)
1 x 1N34 (or 1N60) AM Detector
1 x 2SB54 Audio driver stage (transformer coupled to the power stage)
2 x 2SB56 Class B Audio Power Stage.

I still have several around...
What was most interesting of those old 2SB56 Ge transistors was that their positive temperature coefficient made them run easily into thermal buildup, and one could even meld solder wire with them... and after that more than rude treatment they would still work (as transistors, I mean :) )

Gaston

[jodell]

The coding I do for a paycheck mostly consists of web backends, high performance graphics stuff, hardware control (device drivers), or data conversion.

>  Any particular language or were you using one of the mathematics packages?

Banged the whole thing out in C.  It modeled diffusion-limited aggregation to simulate crystal growth, showing the results on screen as the "crystal" built up from a seed particle.

 

Nice! I always wanted to get more proficient with the visualization end of things, but so far, graphs are as far as I have gotten.  I'm just a coding dilettante with too many interests.