Restoring tube which will not light up

[alex nolan]

Has anyone had any success restoring a nixie tube which does not want to light up? I don't think the tube has degassed, could it just be severe poisoning? If so, what's the best way to restore it?

[jb-electronics]

What kind of tube is it?

Cheers

Jens

On 2019-05-30 7:39 p.m., alex nolan wrote:

Has anyone had any success restoring a nixie tube which does not want to light up? I don't think the tube has degassed, could it just be severe poisoning? If so, what's the best way to restore it?

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[alex nolan]

ZM 1350, in this case

On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 9:43:59 PM UTC-4, Jens Boos wrote:

What kind of tube is it?

Cheers

Jens

On 2019-05-30 7:39 p.m., alex nolan wrote:

Has anyone had any success restoring a nixie tube which does not want to light up? I don't think the tube has degassed, could it just be severe poisoning? If so, what's the best way to restore it?

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[jb-electronics]

For a Panaplex I don't have a lot of experience, unfortunately. Are you sure it is not degassed? You can hold a plasma globe close by and see if there is any neon left inside of it. Jens

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[gregebert]

Make sure you are using excess anode voltage; spec is 135V but try closer to 200V. Higher voltage does NOT harm a nixie; excess current does, so make sure you have a current-limited supply, or add some series resistance. In this case, about 75K for a 200V supply is fine for 1 segment.

Did this tube ever work ?

If you cant get it to fire using the anode, pick 2 segments that are not adjacent for powering. If it glows, then there is a problem with the anode pin. I think this is very unlikely, but worth trying.

[Nick]

A lot of ZM1350s are outgassed - they have a variable life.

Out of the several 100 I have bought, probably 10% to 15% were completely dead.

Jan (the main supplier) and I exchanged emails on this some years ago and he kindly replaced the dead ones that came from him - subsequently he tested all tubes before shipping with an amazing factory tester that he shows on his website.

Your one may indeed be outgassed and completely dead.

If you have a neon testing wand, that would show if there was a possibility of recovery.

Cheers

Nick

[Mac Doktor]

> If you have a neon testing wand, that would show if there was a possibility of recovery.

The igniter from a gas stove or barbecue grill will work in a pinch. I use a Zerostat "pistol". It's also a piezoelectric device but mounted inside a convenient housing.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

Q: Should car stereo speakers be pointed to the rear for more thrust or up for more traction?

A. On long trips, the 20- to 30% improvement in gas mileage you might get with speakers pointing to the rear is certainly worthwhile. On the other hand, if you drive on snow or ice, the extra traction of speakers pointing upward gives you added control.

Don Lancaster

[Bill van Dijk]

No, for added traction the speakers must be facing up. Duh..... ;-)

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[alex nolan]

I got this from Jan, in fact.

I'll get a neon testing wand (or a plasma globe) and test if they are outgassed.

Jan mentioned they were poisoned, so I was operating on that assumption, but if they are indeed outgassed that will be quite unfortunate.

[alex nolan]

To follow up, I found a plasma globe and held the tubes up to it. I was able get the pins to partially light by touching the glass to the plasma globe, and my finger to one of the pins. But it doesn't light up the tube like a ZM1040 I have on hand lights up (could it be partially outgassed?)

Still no luck getting it to light with a power supply though. I've varied through voltages from 170V to 230V. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Nick]

Could easily be partly outgassed. Bear in mind that panaplex displays run off very small currents, so use a high value anode current limiting resistor when winding the voltage up.

Good luck!

[Robert L]

I've been conditioning a batch of ZM 1350 with varying amounts of cathode poisoning... Also some rather high initial strike voltages... The log extracts below are from one moderately poisoned tube and may give you an idea of what to expect. Several cathodes on this tube are still not fully recovered, but getting close!

Decoder key for the strike test records that follow:

Strike, Cathode, prevVanode, prevHV, Vanode, Vhv, Ianode (mA), sweep, pairs, [Ianode (mA), Vanode], cond, seconds

Cathode: cathode number on my tester... NOT the Telefunken cathode number. 

prevVanode, prevHV: voltage on anode before current was flowing... HV supply before current was flowing.

Vanode, Vhv, Ianode (mA): Anode voltage and HV supply voltage once current began to flow... "Ianode (mA) is the current once the tube struck subject to a programmed current limit equal to the rated cathode current for the cathode under test.

Sweep, <number of IV pairs> [<Ianode, Vanode>]

Strike test records - first power up of the tube since I received it:

Strike, 0, 192.62, 191.79, 151.72, 195.66,   0.68, sweep, 5,   0.68, 154.76,   0.56, 153.93,   0.52, 154.48,   0.36, 153.93,   0.36, 153.93, cond, 0

Strike, 1, 168.58, 168.30, 151.72, 170.51,   1.32, sweep, 5,   1.32, 155.86,   1.16, 155.86,   1.10, 155.59,   0.90, 155.31,   0.68, 155.59, cond, 0

Strike, 2, 173.35, 172.79, 152.09, 175.00,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 154.85,   0.84, 154.58,   0.84, 154.85,   0.72, 154.02,   0.52, 154.30, cond, 0

Strike, 3, 178.80, 178.52, 151.44, 181.01,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 155.31,   0.84, 155.03,   0.68, 154.76,   0.58, 155.03,   0.52, 155.03, cond, 0

Strike, 4, 178.59, 178.31, 144.91, 181.35,   1.32, sweep, 5,   1.32, 146.02,   1.22, 146.57,   1.00, 144.91,   0.84, 142.98,   0.74, 140.77, cond, 0

Strike, 5, 181.84, 181.56, 150.61, 185.16,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 155.59,   0.88, 155.59,   0.84, 156.14,   0.68, 155.59,   0.58, 155.59, cond, 0

Strike, 6, 178.80, 178.80, 150.34, 181.01,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 154.48,   0.92, 153.93,   0.72, 153.38,   0.52, 153.38,   0.52, 153.38, cond, 0

Strike, 7, 184.94, 184.66, 149.61, 187.70,   0.66, sweep, 5,   1.16, 154.58,   1.08, 154.30,   0.88, 153.75,   0.68, 154.02,   0.52, 154.02, cond, 0

Strike, 8, 156.97, 156.97, 152.55, 158.35,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 155.31,   0.94, 154.76,   0.84, 154.76,   0.68, 154.48,   0.52, 153.93, cond, 0

Strike, 9, 160.29, 160.29, 153.65, 162.22,   1.16, sweep, 5,   1.16, 155.59,   1.04, 155.31,   0.84, 154.48,   0.78, 153.93,   0.56, 153.93, cond, 0

Strike, 10, 173.55, 173.00, 150.89, 175.48,   0.72, sweep, 5,   1.32, 155.03,   1.24, 154.76,   1.04, 154.21,   0.68, 153.38,   0.52, 153.38, cond, 0

Strike, 11, 164.15, 163.88, 151.17, 166.09,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 153.38,   0.84, 152.82,   0.84, 152.82,   0.70, 152.27,   0.52, 152.27, cond, 0

Strike, 12, 149.78, 162.50, 152.82, 163.88,   1.16, sweep, 5,   1.16, 154.48,   1.00, 153.93,   0.84, 153.38,   0.74, 152.82,   0.52, 152.82, cond, 0

Strike, 13, 160.29, 160.29, 153.10, 162.22,   0.58, sweep, 5,   0.68, 155.59,   0.52, 154.21,   0.52, 154.48,   0.38, 153.65,   0.36, 153.65, cond, 0

Strike, 14, 217.21, 216.94, 151.44, 222.47,   0.36, sweep, 5,   0.36, 154.48,   0.24, 152.27,   0.20, 151.99,   0.20, 152.55,   0.20, 152.82, cond, 0

Strike, 15, 176.04, 175.21, 147.85, 177.97,   0.52, sweep, 5,   0.52, 151.44,   0.52, 152.27,   0.38, 152.27,   0.36, 152.82,   0.20, 152.82, cond, 0

Strike test records after varying amounts of conditioning... End of each record is number of seconds conditioning performed. Some cathodes were looking good after just 30 minutes conditioning, other have needed more time.

Strike, 0, 155.03, 165.54, 155.86, 167.47,   0.52, sweep, 5,   0.52, 155.86,   0.52, 156.14,   0.40, 153.93,   0.36, 153.65,   0.36, 154.76, cond, 1800

Strike, 1, 156.69, 156.69, 157.52, 158.35,   1.34, sweep, 5,   1.34, 157.80,   1.18, 156.97,   1.08, 156.14,   0.86, 155.03,   0.68, 154.21, cond, 1800

Strike, 2, 156.23, 156.23, 157.89, 158.16,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 157.89,   0.86, 157.06,   0.84, 157.06,   0.76, 155.40,   0.54, 154.58, cond, 3600

Strike, 3, 156.97, 172.72, 157.52, 175.48,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 157.80,   0.86, 156.42,   0.68, 155.03,   0.58, 153.93,   0.52, 154.21, cond, 1800

Strike, 4, 170.31, 170.03, 146.57, 172.24,   1.34, sweep, 5,   1.34, 145.74,   1.18, 145.19,   1.02, 144.36,   0.90, 143.26,   0.70, 142.71, cond, 5400

Strike, 5, 158.16, 158.44, 158.44, 159.54,   0.52, sweep, 5,   1.02, 158.99,   0.92, 157.89,   0.84, 157.89,   0.68, 156.51,   0.60, 155.68, cond, 1800

Strike, 6, 168.02, 168.02, 159.46, 170.79,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 159.46,   0.92, 158.07,   0.70, 156.69,   0.52, 155.86,   0.52, 155.59, cond, 1800

Strike, 7, 160.29, 160.01, 158.35, 161.67,   0.50, sweep, 5,   1.18, 158.90,   1.08, 157.80,   0.88, 156.69,   0.68, 155.59,   0.62, 155.03, cond, 1800

Strike, 8, 158.07, 159.73, 158.63, 161.39,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 159.18,   0.84, 157.80,   0.84, 157.80,   0.74, 156.42,   0.52, 154.48, cond, 5400

Strike, 9, 156.42, 156.42, 158.35, 158.07,   1.16, sweep, 5,   1.18, 158.63,   1.10, 157.80,   0.90, 156.69,   0.68, 155.31,   0.52, 154.48, cond, 1800

Strike, 10, 155.03, 155.03, 156.69, 156.42,   1.04, sweep, 5,   1.34, 158.07,   1.18, 156.97,   0.84, 154.76,   0.76, 153.65,   0.56, 153.65, cond, 1800

Strike, 11, 158.07, 158.07, 157.80, 159.46,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 158.63,   0.92, 157.25,   0.86, 157.25,   0.68, 155.31,   0.60, 153.93, cond, 3600

Strike, 12, 158.35, 158.35, 158.90, 159.73,   1.18, sweep, 5,   1.18, 159.46,   1.02, 158.35,   0.84, 156.97,   0.74, 155.86,   0.54, 155.59, cond, 1800

Strike, 13, 153.20, 152.92, 155.13, 154.58,   0.52, sweep, 5,   0.68, 157.89,   0.52, 155.68,   0.52, 156.78,   0.38, 153.75,   0.36, 153.75, cond, 5400

Strike, 14, 161.94, 161.94, 158.07, 163.60,   0.36, sweep, 5,   0.36, 157.52,   0.20, 153.38,   0.20, 153.38,   0.20, 153.38,   0.20, 153.65, cond, 1800

Strike, 15, 160.01, 160.01, 154.76, 161.39,   0.52, sweep, 5,   0.52, 155.03,   0.52, 155.03,   0.36, 153.10,   0.36, 153.10,   0.24, 152.55, cond, 3600