Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

[gregebert]

I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and will make unusual clocks.

I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it appears to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's not lit very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or not. Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page document page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up regarding burn-in.

If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please chime in so we can start a discussion here.

[Adrian Godwin]

Emily Velasco had one working. Can't remember where I saw it - she uses youtube, mastodon and used to use twitter.

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[Michail Wilson]

I also have those and several other displays.

I have also done research on different power supplies.

Like you, I am getting the same ‘burn-in’ with my displays.  Also, they are not very bright, but I’m told they were intended (true or not) for use in tanks and submarines, which is why they aren’t brightly lit

 

This is a short test done with a couple of types of displays….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0fvadiuw-4

 

Michail

[Dekatron42]

You might remember this thread from 2018: https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/UJczdz85J8o where I included a Russian book on these displays and also pointed out a Russian website plus Mark Moulding wrote about his experiences.

/Martin

[Paul Andrew Lafranchise]

I've put together a 4 and 6 digit clock using IEL-0-VIs. I haven't noticed any burn-in but I don't run them very often. I've attached my notes. Happy to answer any questions. This was one of my first electronic/clock projects so I'm sure I've made some obvious mistakes along the way. :-) 

Cheers,

Andrew

. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQKusSVB4Jw

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SvZFT0Ix38PpcBTwWniY5Ow4kFfds62K/view?usp=drive_link

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[gregebert]

I've been running some SPICE simulations on potential candidates for the HV supply, and I'm close to having something I can run from my function generator. I've done enough basic testing on one display with sinusoidal and triangular waveforms running thru a power transformer to confirm the display works. I'll put this onto a small PCB and hopefully test it out in the next few months. I'm aiming for operating around 1Khz, and the iron-core power transformer I'm using right now seems fine up to around 5Khz before it starts to poop-out.

I havn't finalized how to drive the individual segments; most likely I will use small triacs. I've used opto-triacs many times before, so I'll probably stick with them unless I find "regular" triacs for a lot cheaper. My only concern is the leakage current of the triacs might cause the segments to glow, as they only need a few uA. That's another experiment I need to do after I have the power supply nailed down.

[Peter Hall]

I also have some off these. Even the Tank ones-with metal backings.Just gotta find them🤔.I'd love too contribute some $$$,towards boards/parts,if thats any help.. Patrick.M.has Vidio and Voltage goat,as well..

Keep it up.

From🚨Peter Hall😁 insidiousnixies🦘Utube

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[Keith Moore]

I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my displays though. 

[gregebert]

Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2 inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.

[Richard Scales]

I have a board which drives the displays just fine, opt triacs which I drive from a PIC using the B-7971 Smart Socket code (slightly modified) and i have had great success using the 'blue' EL power supply from Adafruit (I think that's where they came from - I bought a bag of them).

For the sake of doing it right I would be interested in some of your HV EL power supplies - I am broadly assuming that the will perform better than what I have used so far.

 - Richard

[Nick Andrews]

Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be interested in the project if I had some! 

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[gregebert]

There are some on Ebay right now (I have no affiliation with the seller). Do a  search for IEL-0. I suggest shopping around for awhile to get the best price. I'm a bit nervous about the IEL-0-IV displays. After 10 days of basic testing, my test device has noticeable burning, though I cant confirm if the luminous output has dropped. I need to build a photometer and do more testing. Prior to using it, the entire screen was the same color.

[Michail Wilson]

That is the type of burn in I have experienced as well.

Not just on the small one you have, but on the various sizes.

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com <neoni...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of gregebert

Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2024 11:23 AM
To: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone want to collaborate on electroluminescent display projects ?

 

There are some on Ebay right now (I have no affiliation with the seller). Do a  search for IEL-0. I suggest shopping around for awhile to get the best price. I'm a bit nervous about the IEL-0-IV displays. After 10 days of basic testing, my test device has noticeable burning, though I cant confirm if the luminous output has dropped. I need to build a photometer and do more testing. Prior to using it, the entire screen was the same color.

 

 

On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:46:06 AM UTC-7 Nick Andrews wrote:

Has anyone seen any of these for sale in the last few years?  I'd be interested in the project if I had some! 

 

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024, 5:24 PM gregebert <greg...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Right now it looks like there will be 3 different PCB's: One for the HV power supply, one for a single I-95, and another for 2-4 IEL-0-IV (I havn't sized the board yet, but it needs to be less than 4" per side). I use a modular design approach, and everything is connected with a 10-pin ribbon-cable serial bus I call IOLINK. So if you are willing to adapt your favorite controller to the IOLINK interface, which uses 12V signalling (2 inputs, 5 outputs), these boards will be workable for you.

On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 7:59:59 AM UTC-7 Keith Moore wrote:

I am interested but not much help with the design. I'd love to use my displays though. 

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:43:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:

I'm finally at the point I have time to work on a design for my Soviet-era electroluminescent displays. I have 2 types, the smaller IEL-0-IV, and a much larger I-195. Both are the 'alien' style formats, and will make unusual clocks.

 

I have done some very initial testing on the smaller one, and it appears to be burning the phosphor after just a few hours of usage. It's not lit very bright, so I dont know if this is a common burn-in phase, or not. Documentation is pretty limited, and I've been running a 50-page document page-by-page thru google translate; so far nothing has come up regarding burn-in.

 

If anyone out there is working-on IEL's, or planning-to do so, please chime in so we can start a discussion here.

 

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[Paul Andrew Lafranchise]

Opto-triacs seemed to work fine for my segment driver setup (which I think is essentially the same as Richard's). I would also be interested in the details of the power supply you put together. The Adafruit "blue" EL power supply I used is essentially a black (blue?  :-)) box and I'd love to replace it with something I understand better and have built myself.  

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[Nick Andrews]

Okay, so after realizing my search parameters were off, I found and bought 10 of the same 'Predator" style EL displays.  Supposed to be here in 5 or so weeks...  So I'll be interested.

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[gregebert]

Here's the current status as of April 16, 2024. The test display has been running for a few weeks now at low intensity, using my waveform generator (1kHz) and a reverse-wired power transformer. I'm not noticing any degradation of intensity yet.

The inverter design has stalled for a bit while I wrap-up another clock (uses IEE projection-type displays). SPICE simulations of the inverter are showing a lot of ringing, which has been a challenge to get rid of, and there is a mysterious asymmetry into the transformer. This is causing imbalance, and that results in a net DC current, which is not only wasteful but also will cause saturation of the transformer. I'm also trending to use a triangular waveform, rather than sinusoidal, because it results in constant current (well, at least theoretically...) for the display.

Opto triacs are easier to use than regular ones, so I expect to go with those and drive them from a serial chain of shift registers. I standardized a serial link for my projects using 10-conductor ribbon cable, using the same signals/levels as used by the HV5532 (and similar) drivers. Each IEL-0-IV display is 8 segments, so 48 bits will control a 6-character display via direct-drive. I wont use, or attempt to use, multiplexing. Adding more characters is as simple as adding more serial devices. Right now I think I will have 2 displays per board; keeping the PCBs less than 100mm/side (4 inches) keeps the price way down at PCBWay. A run of 10 boards is around 14 USD ($5 total for the 10 boards, $9 for shipping).

As far as controlling the serial link, I use a Raspberry Pi Zero W. I'm sure any controller will work as long as you use a level-shifter for the serial interface.