Pinball score reel clock

[Shaun Merrigan]

Just saw an interesting a article about building a 4 digit clock using electro-mechanical score reels from pinball machines:

https://www.elektormagazine.com/magazine/88/42431

Video here:

https://youtu.be/lQL2Vk1Hj-o

I will be building this one.

Shaun M

Sent from my iPad6

No Regret

[gregebert]

Probably would not want that thing in your bedroom when it rolls-over at 1 AM......

Definitely would be a great desk clock for the workplace.

[newxito]

I would like to build a similar clock using 3d printed parts. I have tried with continuous rotation servos but they are very difficult to position so I have ordered some small stepper motors.

[Tom Harris]

Where do you get the displays from?  They appear rarer than the more exotic Nixie's. 

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[John Smout]

You really won’t want to hear one of these clocks clattering away in your home for too long. I had a house that was detached from my neighbo(u)r and they asked me if I was using an old typewriter.

The correct term in pinball circles for these electromechanical devices are decagon reels. Some early ones were indeed faceted into a ten flat segmented drum rather than the later circular ones. The video seems to show a standard set of Gottlieb decagons.

The reels themselves have a switch that is open at zero and a switch that closes at nine, so the next pulse can clock the next reel along. The open at zero switches allowed resetting of reels to zero at the start of a game, they simply kept being pulsed until a line through all three or four reels opened. A common fault on pinballs is the reels pulsing continually because one switch doesn’t open at zero.

A set of additional relays was usually employed between the point-scoring playfield game features and the reels, one per reel. These pulsed the bells or chimes and also the score reels, which in turn broke the cicuit back to the relay driving it, ensuring a single pulse. If a ball had stuck on a switch somewhere and was still sitting on it, a continuous pulse usually meant you had only a few minutes before the decagon coil burned out.

As for where you get them, most pinball enthusiasts have a few old reels from scrapped machines. Rarely, if ever, were whole reels or assemblies replaced, because all the parts can be replaced individually. Most parts are still available from Steve Young in the US through http://www.pbresource.com/.

French Rally pinballs used similar steppers, but wipers selected the cathodes on nixie tubes. Nixies were never used in US pinball machines.

John S

[Mark Moulding]

I built a clock using those pinball reels, but (for the reason the Mr. Smout mentioned, I didn't use the original electro-mechanical drivers (although I had them).  Instead, I mounted each reel on a stepper motor, and drove each stepper with a little 8051-based controller - six of them in total.  I connected them all on a primitive one-directional network (along with a couple of other devices), and ran them all from the serial port of an Arduino.  This worked very well, and was virtually silent.  The motors never seemed to miss a step, but in case they did I had a flag and an opto-interrupter at the zero position, so each digit would verify and if necessary re-calibrate every time it displayed a zero (also at power-up, of course).

~~
Mark Moulding

[John Smout]

Advice for the prurient: if you choose to be offended by gratuitous innuendo, then please find a safe place somewhere else that is within your comfort zone.

I was telephoned today by a well-known pinball afficionado. En passant, he asked if I’d seen an Elektor article concerning a clock made from old electromechanical pinball displays. I was able to say that this forum had already educated me on just such a topic.

I am advised by the above individual that decagon reels were remade by Stern for a game called ‘Whoa Nellie’. My informant tells me he was instrumental in the design of this game, which was sold as an ‘art’ object, in an edition of 4. These sold for around $10,000 dollars each. Cheap for art, considering the work involved.

Stern later decided to buy the rights to this 'oh so fruity' machine and it was manufactured commercially. It was disliked by operators, however, not because of its salacious overtones, but because it was supported on imitation fruit packaging crates, rather than the conventional four legs. It didn’t really look like a pinball should.

So, would-be builders of an Elektor decagon reel clock might buy new reel assemblies that were remade for this game, and also for one or two others. Expect costs to be in the $200-$300 region though.

My informant’s name is cryptically displayed on the playfield above.

John S

[Nicholas Stock]

Brilliant. Thanks for sharing John!

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 19, 2019, at 13:57, John Smout <j...@jsdesign.co.uk> wrote:

Advice for the prurient: if you choose to be offended by gratuitous innuendo, then please find a safe place somewhere else that is within your comfort zone.

I was telephoned today by a well-known pinball afficionado. En passant, he asked if I’d seen an Elektor article concerning a clock made from old electromechanical pinball displays. I was able to say that this forum had already educated me on just such a topic.

I am advised by the above individual that decagon reels were remade by Stern for a game called ‘Whoa Nellie’. My informant tells me he was instrumental in the design of this game, which was sold as an ‘art’ object, in an edition of 4. These sold for around $10,000 dollars each. Cheap for art, considering the work involved.

Stern later decided to buy the rights to this 'oh so fruity' machine and it was manufactured commercially. It was disliked by operators, however, not because of its salacious overtones, but because it was supported on imitation fruit packaging crates, rather than the conventional four legs. It didn’t really look like a pinball should.

<whoanellie.jpg>

<temp6-1-576x1024.png>

So, would-be builders of an Elektor decagon reel clock might buy new reel assemblies that were remade for this game, and also for one or two others. Expect costs to be in the $200-$300 region though.

My informant’s name is cryptically displayed on the playfield above.

John S

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[petehand]

Most pinball score reels are 10 position, but Bally made one that is 12 position, part number CD-29-1600. Those would come in very handy for the  hour and 10's minute indicators. They're very hard to find. They were used as payout multipliers on multi-coin slot machines, since they were able to divide by 3 4 and 6, while 2 and 5 were handled by conventional 10 step counters. You occasionally find them on Ebay. They were used in the Bally EM slot machines and sometimes you can buy them from scrapped machines. The wheel is completely blank so you would have to make a strip for it.

[Ian]

Gotta love that pin table

On 20 Feb 2019, at 08:51, petehand <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

Most pinball score reels are 10 position, but Bally made one that is 12 position, part number CD-29-1600. Those would come in very handy for the  hour and 10's minute indicators. They're very hard to find. They were used as payout multipliers on multi-coin slot machines, since they were able to divide by 3 4 and 6, while 2 and 5 were handled by conventional 10 step counters. You occasionally find them on Ebay. They were used in the Bally EM slot machines and sometimes you can buy them from scrapped machines. The wheel is completely blank so you would have to make a strip for it.

<Auto Generated Inline Image 1>

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[John Smout]

Score reel number strip artwork is free for download from http://www.pinballrebel.com/

Below is the sheet for Gottlieb reels. You might wonder what the extra 0 and 109 is for. Well on some machines the lowest reel isn’t one, it’s a curved piece of metal with a sticker, a dummy reel that never moves.

Electronic gas plasma panaplex displays in pinballs went from 6 digits to 7 digits around 1981. I have a similar dummy piece of metal screwed onto the end of a display that has an orange-printed-on-black bracket to simulate a 7th digit. Hardly convincing. I suppose the sales flyer made it look like it was a modern 7 digit machine. Before this time, at the transition from electromechanical to panaplex, I have seen black mechanical reels with orange writing to look as if they are electronic.

John S

On 20 Feb 2019, at 08:51, petehand <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Alex]

A cheaper resource of similar things would be from Fruit Machines - I have had a few of the (very common in UK) Barcrest Genesis based units which lurk in the corner of most pubs and take a way shops. They use a central modular electronic controller with a plug in rom cartridge for the game code. All the electronics is pretty much generic to their games and just the glass / panelwork gets changed. Multiplexed incandescent lamps with (series?) diodes, a nice VFD display and 3x stepper motor (not pulse coil) reels with pictures on them. Would make an odd clock, but a good source of parts. They also rarely fetch anything second hand (for the complete machines). £50-£100 average for a tatty one on ebay if you collect...

[John Smout]

I have just come across the 6 digit panaplex pinball displays that decided they should be 7 digit rather than 6, by using a backlit window on a bracket for the least sig. fig.

I have lit one up, just to amuse you,

John S

On 20 Feb 2019, at 12:07, John Smout <j...@jsdesign.co.uk> wrote:

…Electronic gas plasma panaplex displays in pinballs went from 6 digits to 7 digits around 1981. I have a similar dummy piece of metal screwed onto the end of a display that has an orange-printed-on-black bracket to simulate a 7th digit. Hardly convincing. I suppose the sales flyer made it look like it was a modern 7 digit machine. Before this time, at the transition from electromechanical to panaplex, I have seen black mechanical reels with orange writing to look as if they are electronic.

John S

[Michail Wilson]

Shaun,

 

Did you get this project done?

 

Strangely, my GF thought about this type of clock and found links online.  I just searched my email on it and found this posting from you for the same thing.  We purchased 8 reel on ebay.  And, we found a pinball guy on craigslist and just picked up 30 more reels.   So, looks like I will be building a few as well.  I have no idea why I picked up so many reels as we will not make that many clocks.

 

Michail

 

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[Shaun Merrigan]

Michail,

I secured a couple of reels, built a little circuit to test them and ordered all the other parts. The reels work, but they will need some mechanical restoration. Then, while waiting for the boards from Elektor, I got started restoring a Hickok 209A VTVM which I am still working on......

That is where it stands now😉

Shaun M.

Sent from my iPad6

No Regret

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[newxito]

I don't have reels so I started with a printed version...

[Michail Wilson]

Thanks.

 

GF ordered to boards from Elektor as well.

Just got the BOM list from her.  So, we will see.  J

 

Was hoping to see your’s running.  J

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

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[Michail Wilson]

Love it.

 

Where did you get the number decals for the reel?

 

3d design of your own or available online?

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

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[newxito]

I printed the numbers on a A4 label and then stuck the label on the reel. Unfortunately I don't have a A3 printer, so I had to reduce the size to 84%. I will correct that in the final version.

I designed the printed parts with Tinkercad. I still need to make some adjustments, the inner circle is not perfectly aligned with the middle of the photo sensor. Once the clock is finished I will share all the files.

Anyway, the only advantage of the self made reel is the reduced level of noise compared to the original :-)

[Bill Notfaded]

I can imagine having the seconds count would be interesting... don't some of them even have a bell that rings inside them?

[Michail Wilson]

Bell is separate.   You could add it though.

 

Strangely the guy I talked to wanted $20 for the chimes.

Only $5 per reel.

 

Oh, and $5 for the knocker (the unit that slams/pops when you score a freeplay.

 

Meh.   I think hours and miniutes is going to be enough.

 

Waiting on circuit parts and boards now.  I’ll make 5 of them.

 

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

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[Bill Notfaded]

It's kinda weird for me to imagine all the kids these days that don't know any of that stuff... I remember the knocker pop... it was loud and everyone could hear it when it happened.  I don't remember dime machines but I sure remember the quarter and later token machines.

Bill

[Dan Hollis]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tube-VT-62-8019-4304-HIGH-QUALITY-AUDIOPHILE-POWER-TUBE-2-pcs/293018722398

[Mac Doktor]

On May 28, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's kinda weird for me to imagine all the kids these days that don't know any of that stuff... I remember the knocker pop... it was loud and everyone could hear it when it happened.

And when you beat the highest score it knocked three times.

  I don't remember dime machines but I sure remember the quarter and later token machines.

When I was a kid old machines with only three reels and tiny flippers were still in service and I remember playing them at the skating rink (Magic Town comes to mind). When the Susan B. Anthony coin came out you got five plays for a dollar. I still prefer the tables with longer flippers from the early '70s to the early '80s.

You don't realize how big and loud a pinball machine is until you have one in your home. I had several at one point as well as an Atari Tempest, the best video game of all time IMHO. I still have the Tempest but it's out in the shed now. There's no room for it in here and I have a buyer lined up.

Another one of the joys of ownership is having the glass shatter. The glass is tempered so you can hit it with a five pound sledge and it'll just bounce off. BUT bump up against the edge and it will crumble into pebbles of glass. I watched two friends pull the glass out once and by the time I yelled "stop!" it was too late. They banged it right into a basement column and stood there with hands full of glass fragments.

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

Q: Should car stereo speakers be pointed to the rear for more thrust or up for more traction?

A. On long trips, the 20- to 30% improvement in gas mileage you might get with speakers pointing to the rear is certainly worthwhile. On the other hand, if you drive on snow or ice, the extra traction of speakers pointing upward gives you added control.

Don Lancaster

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

[Bill Notfaded]

Tempest is awesome!  It's also a loud game with sounds it made like rockets firing before you flew into the tunnel after winning a round.  It was unique too almost a flashback to the pong days having a rotary controller but dang the game play was good.  Classic vector graphics similar to asteroids but in color not black & white!

Bill

[Mac Doktor]

On May 28, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tempest is awesome!  It's also a loud game with sounds it made like rockets firing before you flew into the tunnel after winning a round.  It was unique too almost a flashback to the pong days having a rotary controller but dang the game play was good.  Classic vector graphics similar to asteroids but in color not black & white!

Tempest was the best of their color vector games. Unfortunately, the proprietary Atari monitors had an alarming tendency to burn up their HV power supplies. Atari charged a fortune for replacements. Fortunately, Wells-Gardner made a serviceable monitor that was a drop-in replacement.

BTW, the tunnels, tubes, wells—whatever people called them—are "holes". You have to read the service manual to find that out.

And why they didn't use ball bearings on the rotary controller I have no idea.

[Bill van Dijk]

But he is offering FREE shipping.......!

It is a special bunch. I just read a post from one bloke who swears he has
found the best sounding........ are you ready for it?......... Solder. He
was looking for advice how to remove all the bad solder from his amp so he
could install his new solder. Good grief........

-----Original Message-----
From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On

Behalf Of Dan Hollis
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:56 PM
To: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [neonixie-l] audiophiles are crazy...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-tube-VT-62-8019-4304-HIGH-QUALITY-AUDIOPHILE-
POWER-TUBE-2-pcs/293018722398

[lokn...@gmail.com]

For the best sound it can not be just any solder....it must be a 100% special silver alloy. 🤣

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bill Notfaded]

Gold or really Platinum sounds even better!

[Jonathan Peakall]

Audiophools are really on another planet! Occasionally when I am bored I will go look at cryogenically cables and the like: https://www.takefiveaudio.com/contents/89-cryo

Simply hilarious.

On 5/29/2019 7:54 AM, Bill Notfaded wrote:

Gold or really Platinum sounds even better!

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[【ツ】John Smout]

On 29 May 2019, at 16:19, Jonathan Peakall <jpea...@madlabs.info> wrote:

Audiophools are really on another planet! Occasionally when I am bored I will go look at cryogenically cables and the like: https://www.takefiveaudio.com/contents/89-cryo

Simply hilarious.

I wonder how many audiophools syringe their ears before each listening or, worse, insist that their audiences do likewise. This would surely have more effect on sound quality than this electrickery.

John S

[johnk]

I think that you will find they truly believe in the Western Electric reels of vintage solder that pop up from time to time.

John K

-----Original Message-----
From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lokn...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 29 May 2019 23:52
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com

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[Bill Notfaded]

MIT cables come to mind:  https://mitcables.com/heritage-lending-program/

799$ to $16,999 o.O!

[Bill van Dijk]

Fake!

 

You can’t use nitrogen, it is too heavy, and results in a disproportionate bass response. They should use helium or hydrogen, that will give a much lighter tone to the treated wires and other parts.

 

Now if you believe all that, I know of a place where you can get free Nixies! Just send me money and I’ll tell you where…..

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ???John Smout
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 11:41 AM
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] audiophiles are crazy...

 

On 29 May 2019, at 16:19, Jonathan Peakall <jpea...@madlabs.info> wrote:

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[Mac Doktor]

On May 29, 2019, at 12:54 PM, Bill van Dijk <theold...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fake!

Wooden knobs are still my favorite:

http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2012/05/485-volume-knob.html

[Dan Hollis]

I can do it for him for $10,000. And I'm sure he would pay, believing it
to be true.

-Dan

> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/4EE37F68-B2AE-4ECF-BB28-7A58466B64CE%40gmail.com.

[Tomislav Cordazzo]

I guess list is endless, my favorites are cryogenically treated and demagnetized Rhodium Plated OFC Copper fuses which claim to improve the overall sound.

[Mac Doktor]

> On May 30, 2019, at 2:48 AM, Tomislav Cordazzo <tkor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I guess list is endless

"Okay, so we all realize that getting cables up off the floor is a nice little tweak, but not earth-shattering. However, Caelin assures me that the improvement offered by the new design is on the level of changing a component… say what?! Seriously, he believes the new DF-SS is a revolutionary product for the genre that can offer improvements far beyond what one would expect from such an accessory. Shunyata has even invested in custom hardware (a miniature accelerometer small enough to attach to a cable) to measure the effects of vibration on cables and the reduction the DF-SS offers."

"In addition to the patented energy-field neutralization material used in the original DFE, the DF-SS incorporates two forms of vibration isolation that quiets energy transfer between the floor and any cable product. The most significant advance applied to the DFSS is the dual-band cable suspension bridge, designed to support any cable, power or signal, while dissipating vibrational energy through the purposefully tensioned polymer bands. The second innovation is the energy-absorbing granular compound that fills the base of the DFSS. This compound formulation absorbs floor-borne energy that would otherwise couple to the cable, causing signal degradation."

https://www.gcaudio.com/products/shunyata-df-ss-dark-field-suspension-system/

[Bill Notfaded]

Lololol you literally can apparently make this stuff up!

Bill

[Michail Wilson]

This is the stage the clock is in as of a little past noon today.

 

https://youtu.be/0VA9F36EmKU

 

 

Michail

 

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mac Doktor
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 6:02 PM
To: via neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Pinball score reel clock

 

 

On May 28, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Michail Wilson]

Thought I would share….

 

Some pictures of the clock as a completed prototype….

https://imgur.com/a/YYnGS0g

 

The final case will be of a scale pinball machine head.

 

Working on the sleep feature now  (no need to listen to it throughout the night).

 

I’ll make the circuit boards available on www.pinballclock.com when I get time.  (Put up a super basic site just to start it.  Will make it as close to cost as possible.)

 

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mac Doktor

Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 6:02 PM
To: via neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Pinball score reel clock

 

 

On May 28, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Dylan Distasio]

Looks great, and thanks for offering the circuit boards.  I have a set of reels I picked up, and would love to have a kit for the rest.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/012e01d52b85%240f97d0b0%242ec77210%24%40com.

[newxito]

The hardware of the fake pinball score reel clock is almost done. Now I have to write the software and check if everything works as expected. I hope that I can reuse a lot of code from the nixie clocks: GPS sync, RTC, menus, RGB led lighting…

Maybe there is something like stepper motor poisoning so I can use these functions as well :-)